Debate of the Century: Ron Paul vs. Alan Greenspan

Yesterday's 'Value Voter's Debate' was a farce. How about a real debate, in which real issues that affect every real Americans are discussed?

As we all know, former Federal Reserve Chairman is now a private citizen. With the publication of his new book, The Age of Turbulence he has made it clear that he has thrown off his former Fedspeak muzzle and is not afraid of speaking his true mind with crystal clarity.

This being the case, why not have a real, open, duke-it-out debate between Dr. Paul and Dr. Greenspan? Their Congressional exchanges between 1997 - 2005 were some of the most informative and entertaining ever. It was through these exchanges -- sometimes broadcast live on CNBC -- that many people, including myself, came to learn of Dr. Paul for the very first time.

These exchanges, while lively and informative, left many unanswered questions. Clearly, Dr. Greenspan was hamstrung by his official position in what he could say and how much of his true feelings he could reveal. This handicap no longer exists. Of supreme interest to me would be what caused him to change the ideas he held in 1967, when he wrote in the essay 'Gold and Economic Freedom'. In that essay, he states: "...gold and economic freedom are inseparable..." and, "In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value..."

Does he still believe this? While serving as Fed chief, he said he did not. He said there was no more need for gold, because the dollar was now "good as gold." But what else could the Chairman of the Federal Reserve say?

Now is his big chance to let us know how he really feels.

As Gus Ganoudis from Florida, who originally suggested this idea writes, "Dr. Paul has spent his entire political career studying the Fed and has been trying to educate the public about this fraudulent, destructive institution for years. Dr. Greenspan has just written a book and obviously misses the spotlight. I don’t think it would be difficult to get him into the ring with Dr. Paul. He’s got books to sell and an ego to be stroked."

Indeed - it would be a win-win-win situation. Gus says, "I have no doubt that Dr. Paul would be the winner. Total annihilation is
more like it." Indeed. However, the biggest winner of all would be the American people, who are in desperate need of an education on how the secretive Federal Reserve controls our monetary system, and by extension, just about everything else in our lives.

This is a debate we all want and need to see. Let's hope that Dr. Paul's campaign challenges Mr. Greenspan to such a debate. There is no doubt that this rematch would go down as the debate of the century.



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Michael Nystrom's picture

Bump for Gus

And for old time's sake.

He's the man.

Greenspan just on Jon Stewart's "Daily Show"

Jon asked some great questions and this is an interview well-worth watching. Almost makes me believe Jon was putting some of Ron's statements to Greenspan for him :-)

http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/?lnk=v&ml_video=102970

Jon Stewart just impressed

Jon Stewart just impressed me. His questions suggest that he's read and gave a serious thought, if it comes to the subject of money.
And Greenspan proved that he can talk like a human being, and the speeches he made during his reign as a Fed chairman were design to confuse listeners, which I have always known they are.

Nice interview

That was actually a nice interview. Funny and informative. It actually connected a few dots for me between Greenspan "the gold standard guy" and Greenspan "the Fed guy". It seems like he believes that the Fed was necessary in creating the natrual ebb and flow you see in a gold standard. But if you think you should mimic a gold standard, why nor just keep it?

I would like to hear Greenspan

say that debt based currency is unnecessary ala Lincoln greenbacks.
He could then go on to say that the Fed is a conspiracy against the American people. That might redeem him slightly.
Famous Quote from Justice William O. Douglas
"The Constitution is not neutral.
It was designed to take the government
off the backs of people."

Famous Quote from Justice William O. Douglas

"The Constitution is not neutral.
It was designed to take the government
off the backs of people."

Greenspan should come out in support of Paul

Greenspan knows the fundamentals of these issues. He knows the wrongs of large government and the problems we will face in the future if we don't change something. He understands money and gold and knows how it affects free people. He clearly understands the Fed.

When he was Fed Chairman he did a lot of things that were not good for freedom and liberty and inside himself he knows this. He alienated himself and he knows this.

What better way to get back some of his soul than to come out in support of the one candidate who actively supports the ideals Greenspan knows within himself to be virtuous?

I have had many problems with Greenspan in the past, especially regarding his integrity, but if he were to come out in support of Ron Paul he would get a clean slate in my eyes. Without it, he goes down as an intellectually dishonest fraud. At his death bed will he be able to avoid the shame and guilt of not living up to his own ideals?

Greenspan - do the right thing for once...

_________________________________

Freedom - Peace - Prosperity

Would not be much of a debate

Alan and Ron agree on a lot. Alan even wrote a book about wanting to use a gold standard.

He was just a guy with a job (albeit a pretty important one) who within the bounds of the existing system did the best he could.

Even Bernanke agrees (at least publicly) with a lot of what RP says. I think the Fed honestly is disgusted with the balancing act congress forces them to play and the magic accounting they have to use to pull it off.

I agree 100%.

I agree 100%.

The Real Conspiracy

Greenspan stated he is a Libertarian Republican. When asked what he thought of Hillary, he said "A very smart Woman", but that he "still would vote Republican for the Presidency". So, fiscally, he sounds like he would back Ron, However, he also stated that he believes the Fed Reserve can save us from any forseeable financial crisis. This contradicts what Ron is predicting with our Dollar collapse. The only problem Greenspan forsees is with continued inflation of the $. Maybe Greenspan used to think Gold was the only sound money, but now knows the truth after working for the Fed for 20 years. It could be that the Gold standard is also being manipulated by the Fed itself, making Ron's argument a moot point. I would love for Greenspan to come out & back Ron publicly, as it would be a huge boost to his campaign, but given their different perspectives on this & the fact they have battled & opposed each other in Congress, I don't expect this to happen, how about you?

In April 2007 in the public

In April 2007 in the public speech in front of some "Futures Business Association"(?) in Chicago Greenspan openly stated that gold is the ultimate store of value. I think he is going around and is telling the truth to save his face. He knows what is going to happen.
It would be beutiful sunny day, if he would endorse Ron Paul, but it won't happen until RP will be much higher in polls and we will be much deeper in recession.

Rothbard Proven Right

http://www.mises.org/story/359

Greenspan's real qualification is that he can be trusted never to rock the establishment's boat. He has long positioned himself in the very middle of the economic spectrum. He is, like most other long-time Republican economists, a conservative Keynesian, which in these days is almost indistinguishable from the liberal Keynesians in the Democratic camp. In fact, his views are virtually the same as Paul Volcker, also a conservative Keynesian. Which means that he wants moderate deficits and tax increases, and will loudly worry about inflation as he pours on increases in the money supply.

There is one thing, however, that makes Greenspan unique, and that sets him off from his Establishment buddies. And that is that he is a follower of Ayn Rand, and therefore "philosophically" believes in laissez-faire and even the gold standard. But as the New York Times and other important media hastened to assure us, Alan only believes in laissez-faire "on the high philosophical level." In practice, in the policies he advocates, he is a centrist like everyone else because he is a "pragmatist."

Dollar at half value since Bush took office

In 2001 it was at about 120 look now..I am so sick of this crap

This is what it was:
http://tfc-charts.w2d.com/chart/US/M

This is what it is ...bottom of the page USD

http://www.321gold.com/

With a gold silver standard it sure would be alot bigger. And done believe that crap about the high demand for milk if what is driving the price higher. That a good spin tactic... remember last year? 2 gallons for $5... yeah.. I just paid $7 2 weeks ago...

never happen....

GreenSPUN knows he's get his lunch ate... he'll never do it!

So how do we contact

So how do we contact greenspan, what is his email. I think he will agree with ron, as he has recently statesd the iraq war was for oil. Greenspan is a highly respected figure, and i think he might endorse ron!

Ron Paul 08

Ron Paul 08

I've had the same idea

I think that having a Ron Paul / Alan Greenspan debate would be quite interesting. In the 90's Congressional exchanges between Paul and Greenspan, it was clear that Paul foresaw the dot-com bubble two to three years before it happened. Now that we find the housing bubble foisted upon us, it would be a fantastic idea to expose more people to the idea that the Federal Reserve is responsible for causing these boom and bust cycles.

If such a debate were conducted however, it may put Greenspan in a position where he would not endorse Paul. Given Greenspan's anti-Fed and Randian roots, I could see an endorsement of Paul as a definite possibility. The real question would be which is better, a Ron Paul endorsement or a debate? If I could write a letter to Greenspan, I would probably lean towards the endorsement request, as long as Greenspan can successfully ward off all the recent bad press regarding his ARM quote. I think Greenspan still has quite a following, and an endorsement of Paul would be even more interesting to see than a debate.

Economics and Human Nature

I'm fond of saying that Democrats/liberals who understand Economics are libertarians, and Republicans/conservatives who understand human nature are libertarians.

Freedom is the best hope of reaching the goals of each. Thank goodness the founding fathers understood both human nature and man's medium of exchange!

IMissLiberty

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

thanks!

I love your saying, and think this is a greatly cheering post. I'll definitely be sharing your quote with my friends and others. Thanks!!!

Greenspan always was a private citizen

You state that the "former Federal Reserve Chairman is now a private citizen". Well, he already was a private citizen the entire time he was Fed Chairman. The Fed is a PRIVATE bank. Don't believe it? Look in your phone book. You'll find the Federal Reserve Bank listed in the WHITE (business) pages. THAT'S the real scandal right there. A private bank controlling the entire country's money.

I take my marching orders from the Constitution!

A private bank is no problem

I believe Ron Paul is all about private institutions. The problem with the FED is being an unconstitutional monopoly that counterfeits fiat money.

"OK Shaggy, you and Scoob check out the cave, me and the girls will stay here in the cabin"
~ Fred

Ron Paul is very supportive of ...

private institutions - this is true. But he is NOT supportive of private institutions that control our nation's money, and that is what the Fed is. I agree that it is an unconstitutional monopoly that counterfeits fiat money, but what makes it unconstitutional is that it is a PRIVATE bank. The constitution allows for the coining of money and for the regulation of it's value (Article 1, Section 8), but it must be done by CONGRESS, not a private bank.

I take my marching orders from the Constitution!

Good luck

.
I don't believe for one second that Mr. Greenspan has "thrown off his Fedspeak muzzle"; if anything, he has exchanged it for another kind of muzzle.

He is still a connected guy, a CFR and Bilderburg member, and married to Andrea Mitchell at NBC. He still eats lunch at the "club" and associates with his old cronies, all of whom are similarly "made" guys. Greenspan would soft-peddle or obfuscate any debate question; he's good at that. Ron Paul would win, but not a very satisfying victory.

In my opinion, the question of the FEDs existence is what ought to be debated, and the only guy to talk about that is David Rockefeller. His father was a founding member and the Rockefellers have profited from its existence enormously. There is no more connected man on earth than David Rockefeller. Now that is a debate I would like to see. Or a debate with Henry Kissinger. Alan Greenspan would make for one dull evening.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Fed Cuts Rates - Won't Help Consumers

Here is an interesting story from Marketwatch on today's Fed rate cut:

CHICAGO (MarketWatch) -- For debt-weary consumers, the Federal Reserve's decision to shave interest rates on Tuesday is welcome news for their stock holdings but won't do much for their mortgage payments or savings accounts.

Responding to fears that a credit crunch -- exacerbated by a sagging job market, a housing-market pullback and the related crisis among subprime mortgage holders -- is squelching economic growth, the Federal Reserve took 0.50 percentage point off the target Fed funds rate, marking the first cut in that benchmark since 2003, and 0.50 percentage point off the discount rate.

For those on the brink of foreclosure, that's not the life preserver they need to keep them from falling in. And for those who also are subprime mortgage borrowers -- there's an estimated 1.5 million to 2 million out there -- the Fed move is of little consequence.

"It will help those who need it the least," said Richard Hastings, an analyst at Bernard Sands LLC. "But for those who need the most help, this does nothing for them. The Fed cannot help them at all."

Read the whole thing:
http://tinyurl.com/22cbhz

So - the Fed is helping out its rich friends - the banks, the predatory mortgage lenders, and the government. Guess who gets left out in the cold? Average Americans, who will suffer the ravages of inflation, bankruptcy and foreclosure.

He's the man.

Economics

You know I am a democrat voting for Ron Paul. I've said that many times here. What I think is missing from more people being converted over to supporting Ron Paul is economics. I study economics so I am very well versed there.

I have converted many of my liberal friends over to Ron Paul just by explaining to them what is happening to our economy. As soon as the light bulb comes on in their brains...it is very easy to see that Ron Paul is our only choice right now. Whether we agree with him on the stupid wedge issues or not.

I do a lot of research out there. I see a lot of Ron Paul supporters talking conspiracy theories which turns people off. It turned me off for a long time. All I'm saying is maybe a little less on the "conspiracy" and a little more on the reality of what is happening right now in our economy. Just show them what happened to our dollar today and the gold price and then explain from there.

Just a thought.

I agree somewhat, but ...

unfortunately trying to educate the public on the fraud that is the Fed gets you labeled as a lunatic conspiracy theorist, too. Face it - the haters are gonna label you no matter what. My advice - avoid engaging them in mud-slinging and stick to the issues, and resist letting their substance-less attacks affect what issues you feel are most important. The public will eventually tire of the name calling and will begin to listen to the ones that speak rationally, and will tune out the screamers and the namecallers.

I take my marching orders from the Constitution!

unfortunately trying to

unfortunately trying to educate the public on the fraud that is the Fed gets you labeled as a lunatic conspiracy theorist.

Then you're simply not using examples relevant to the people you're explaining it to. Or, the people you're explaining it to benefit directly from the Fed.

I think you have to explain it simply from the inflation point of view. When the Fed creates the credit to bail out these industries (housing, airlines, etc.) those industries who made risky moves get to spend that new credit at today's value of the dollar. But, the new money dilutes the existing supply which makes the existing supply worth less. Very simply, every time the Fed bails out some big industry, it ultimately devalues the existing dollars. That's why prices keep creeping up. People want to blame greedy corporations. And, you have to tie this hatred of greed to government collusion and the Fed.

I think if you explain it in those terms, it may make you sound less conspiratorial.

You're all missing my point

It's not the average Joe that labels us lunatic conspiracy theorists for attempting to expose the Fed's shenanigans (or any other position of Dr. Paul's that isn't in lock step with all the other candidates) - it's the mainstream media and the GOP establishment types. Statements like "fringe candidate Ron Paul spoke of abolishing the Federal Reserve today..." are standard fare from the MSM.

I agree - when you speak one on one with Joe Blow, it is relatively easy to convince him that the Fed has to go. Unfortunately Joe Blow gets most of his info on the Presidential candidates from the MSM.

The point I was trying to make, though, was that it is vitally important not to let those that want to call us conspiracy theorists, affect the views that we choose to champion. They're gonna engage in ad hominem attacks and mudslinging whatever we say, so ignore them. The public will eventually start to listen to those that speak the truth.

I take my marching orders from the Constitution!

Bravo...I also extend this

Bravo...I also extend this to the people who took out a loan that did not deserve that loan...and why bail them out? It punishes us....who were responsible...and we see our saving eaten by inflation. Two words I've been telling my friends and family for the past year...and now they think I'm some kind of psychic....BUY GOLD!!! Hahaha...you should have heard them calling me today. :) I'm not psychic....I do research..and refuse to stay stupid! Now ask me if they bought gold???? No! They are now, however. Before it's too late. I also go into the global picture. They are pretty receptive to this. Stay engaging and interesting. Talk about them and how it affects their life.

We are only going down from here...if they don't act fast...or we don't get Ron Paul in there. Although...I don't think anything can save it now. Oh well, pick up the pieces and move on I guess.

stick to the policies like Dr. Paul does

When he talks, he often uses the word policy. I think this focuses the attention on where it belongs. It makes more difficult to attack the messenger.

The only way to get rid of the federal reserve system has to involve congress and the Internet. How to do it?

I'll give you...

...the argument for this. Just ask. It is very easy without bringing in a conspiracy. It is so easy...it will blow your mind.

I have a small SUV...looking to trade it in but hey, I'm middle class and can't afford it right now...BUT... it has the spare tire on the back.

On that spare tire cover we are writing: 'Common Sense Ron Paul Can you afford NOT to check him out?' If you can think of anything better please let me know. I'll post a pic of it.

Thanks

Greenspan Took the Words Right Out of Ron Paul's Mouth

I could have sworn he re-stated Ron Paul's words nearly verbatim...."the Republican party has lost it's way"....if I remember correctly that was Ron Paul's answer to why he was running as a Republican in one of the debates. The moderator framed the question by stating that Congressman Paul seemed to be the lone candidate in his positions and asked Ron Paul who was wrong? He or the Party? Looks like Alan Greenspan was listening to the debates, and quickly jumped on the bandwagon, making Ron Paul once again look like the real authority on American foreign policy, economics and history. Sounded to me almost like an endorsement of Dr. Paul. One can only hope.

Daughter of Liberty

'...truth is loved in such a way that those who love some other thing want it to be the truth, and precisely because they do not wish to be deceived, are unwilling to be convinced that they are deceived." --- St. Augustine, Confessions (10:23), 5th cent.

'...truth is loved in such a way that those who love some other thing want it to be the truth, and precisely because they do not wish to be deceived, are unwilling to be convinced that they are deceived." --- St. Augustine, Confessions (10:23), 5th c.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Wouldn't that be something?

Wouldn't that be something? Greenspan turns to endorse his old foe from the House? If Greenspan is serious about making waves and garnering attention, an endorsement of Ron Paul would really do it!

He's the man.

Freshair Interview with Greenspan

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14500893

He fully understands the problem with a fiat currency. He readily admitted that the gold standard kept inflation under control, but thought it hamstrung the economy. On the Daily Show, Jon Stewart asked him if we are really a "free market," do we really need the Fed at all? Greenspan replied basically saying with the Fed we're not a free market.

I'm not sure why some of you hate Greenspan so much. He has essentially exposed the fundamental weakness of the fiat currency system: Central banks can't control inflation. Sometimes you have to tear down the system from within.

Link to their former exchanges?

Is there a link to their former exchanges? The reference link just leads back to dp.com.

Thanks.

Here's another transcript.

Ron Paul vs. Alan Greenspan
Before the House Financial Affairs Committee, July 20, 2005
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul267.html


Dr. Paul calls Alan Greenspan a "master of evasion", hahaha,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07...

"OK Shaggy, you and Scoob check out the cave, me and the girls will stay here in the cabin"
~ Fred

Michael Nystrom's picture

Link fixed

Sorry. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I've fixed the link.
Michael

He's the man.

interesting

The funny thing is, Greenspan might agree with Paul now that he knows all the dirty little secrets.

Michael Nystrom's picture

That's what I think, too!

That's what I think, too!

He's the man.

I second that. Greenspan

I second that.
Greenspan knew what he was doing and he's done that as a career challenge.
I don't think I can say that about Helcopter Ben Bernanke. I think he is more or less clueless.
I also think , if Greenspan was asked who has most knowledge in the subject of money and finances among policians, he would answer : Ron Paul.