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Pooled Caucus Chairman Prevents former State Supreme Court Justice Richard Sanders in WA from Speaking on Behalf of Ron Paul!

At my pooled caucus on Vashon Island here in Washington state last weekend I motioned to allow two minute speeches on behalf of each candidate because I had former State Supreme Court Justice Richard Sanders lined up to speak (he happens to live out here and is now a precinct delegate for Ron Paul!).

Unfortunately the chairman ruled my motion out of order and said they had to start the precinct caucus voting by 10:30 which was wrong and I knew it.

I challenged him to show me in the rules where it said that because I had them printed out; he said he was "told that last night on the phone".

When I continued to press him noting that we had Justice Sanders there to speak he ruled me out of order.

Later when my fiance and I noted that the lone Santorum supporter in our precinct read right off the precinct packet information that it wasn't to start before 11:30am we told him and he told me he would make a call and get back to me, but he never did do that.

After the caucus he said that there just wasn't enough time, which was a lame excuse since people in my precinct had plenty of time to fill out silly bubble sheets for the platform committee that were meaningless; in other words there was was no need to rush and prevent people from speaking.

He also said I should have talked to him about it before the meeting started but I think he was just trying to save face after what he had done to prevent Justice Sanders from speaking on behalf of Dr. Paul at the caucus.

In addition he tried to say it was because I didn't motion early enough because 10:30am was the deadline but the meeting started late because there were still people streaming in after 10am when the proceedings were suppose to start.

I motioned as early as I could so I think we should have been allowed to vote on it even though it was right at 10:30am which was the last minute that motions were technically supposed to be allowed.

My guess is he probably didn't want to be embarrassed because he was a Romney supporter and they didn't have anyone to speak so he ruled me out of order.

My fiance told me she overheard him and his friend talking about how they were so drunk the previous night they didn't know what they were doing.

Also the "unofficial" straw poll count they did at the caucus under counted Ron Paul supporters by at least 30%. I realized this after the fact because I had everyone sign in and collected names of delegates.

The straw poll indicated that there were only 20 votes for Dr. Paul, but I had names of 26 people who were Ron Paul supporters so they must have miscounted.

In addition a local reporter counted over 100 people there but only 85 people were counted in the unofficial straw poll count, no word yet on the official numbers.

I also handed out 12 tally sheets to supporters to record the vote in 12 different precincts and I noticed in a picture I took there were only ten numbers where the caucus chair's wife was writing the Paul in each precinct.

I couldn't read the numbers on my picture unfortunately so I can't compare to my independent tally sheet results but I can see that there are only 10 precincts counted for Ron Paul which means there must have been two precincts she didn't count since I know we had straw votes in at least 12 different precincts.

Looking back I should have been watching more the straw poll more closely.

I also should have gotten involved earlier and become a PCO and volunteered to be the temporary chair at the caucus and ran the show with my fiance but it's always 20/20 in hindsight.

More voter identification and get out the vote efforts would have helped too because if we had a decisive majority we could have elected of me or one of our other people chairman.

I could tell we didn't have a clear majority when I was asking people if they were Ron Paul supporters as they lined up to sign in but I think we pulled out with a plurality of the delegates. I have identified at least 13 delegates and 4 alternates that are Ron Paul supporters. I think there may also be a few more in precincts I didn't get data back from. I doubt Romney got more delegates than Paul because he didn't have people willing to be delegates in several cases I recorded.

Here is a link to a story about what happened from the local reporter who was there, she was pretty fair although she could have included more of my explanation about what happened. I am the person named Graham Nayler referred to in the article.


Despite what happened we did very well in the delegate battle see my previous post for that story

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District 30 is having a meeting in Federal Way this Saturday

A lot of us are planning to attend. For some reason I had to submit a "Declaration of Candidacy for Delegate" even though I was chosen as a delegate at the caucus. You have another hour or so to get that to Kirby Wilbur's office, the fax is 425-460-0571 and email it to chairman@kcgop.gov. That is for King county, WA.

This is where Roberts rules

This is where Roberts rules is improtant and should be known by all delegates.

When you were ruled out of order you should have stated this:

Point of order, I appeal from the decision of the chair, you would need someone to second your motion then at this point the chair must sit down and allow the body to vote on your appeal, you only need 50% NOT 50% plus 1 of the vote to overturn the chairs decision.

You motion could have passed and your people would have been allowed to speak.

Roberts rules, live them, love them, learn them.

sorry I let us get railroaded

I wasn't forceful and knowledgeable enough.

at least we got a lot of delegates

There will be a showdown at the district convention.

What is the procedure if he were to rule that out of order

assuming I did exactly what you said and he just said that was out of order, what would be the procedure to follow to challenge a belligerent chair?

looks like we've seen several cases this weekend

Of belligerent chairs we need to figure out what to do in this situation.


I'm thinking that we really need to get some RP supporters in the party leadership for future assemblies. In Colorado, I think the county leadership is decided at assemblies in the off-presidential years, so, thinking long-term here, we might have to work the caucus system in future years to help prevent these violations of Robert's Rules in future presidential elections...

Great Point

This is what we need to do. But also someone in another thread if the chair fails to recognize a motion after 3 times the motion is to be made directly to the assembly per the latest edition of Roberts Rules of Order.

Thanks for posting

Good advice, based on his behavior my guess is the chair would likely have ruled me out of order again he probably didn't know Roberts rules of order very well either. Sounds like it would have been the thing to do though; sorry I wasn't as prepared as I should have been. Even if we had a vote I would have had to get a good chunk of Romney and Santorum supporters on my side to get a majority, that might have been possible though since I was just asking for 2 minutes for Justice Sanders.

voting for delegates

to the county convention was not supposed to start before 10:30am or after 11:30am. So him saying it was supposed to be completed by 10:30 is totally wrong. Though apparently the Romney campaign wanted it completed as early as possible so they could make their media announcement.

According to the packet

The precinct caucus voting was supposed to start before 11:30am according to the packet they gave out to every precinct.

You were working it. Good

You were working it. Good work.

Thanks I'm reminded of a quote I have as my signature on gmail

“I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; and because I cannot do everything I will not refuse to do the something I can do. What I can do I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of God, I will do.” -Edward Everett Hale

Posted this late last night

Sorry it took me so long to get this story up.

Can You Gather Enough

...Supporters to hold a quorom and throw the b^st^rd out ?
Then you could work on fortifying your position before anymore hijinks occur in the future.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

I don't know that I could have done that

I'm not sure there even is a quorum at these pooled caucuses.

I probably should have tried to elect myself chair anyway though, I would have done a better job. I forgot to mention in the article I found at least one case where the chair lied to some of the Ron Pal people who were there in one precinct telling them to write in another person's name on the delegate sheet who wasn't even there because he was supposedly PCO (but the automatic delegate slot was X'd out so he must have just been Precinct Captain but in any case had no right to be the delegate over the Ron Paul supporter in the Precinct).

I could've had my fiance and my friend second and nominate me, who knows maybe I could have gotten some the non-Paul people to vote for me? Looking back it seems it would have been worth a shot at least.

If I had enough people I could have elected one of our people

Chairman of the pooled caucus in the first place, that would have been the thing to do if we had a decisive majority.

ytc's picture

I perfectly understand your frustration with the

arduous ways we have to learn how the system works.

Don't be too harsh on yourselves with 20/20 hindsight, though. We'll be TRULY awesome when 2016 rolls in. . .

2016 ?

I don't believe this nation will last till that time if Ron is not elected. I may be wrong, I pray I am wrong, but I think not.
The cancer in this country is spreading and we MUST stop it now!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

I agree let's deal with this crisis now while there are still civil methods we can use to restore the Republic who knows how long that will last.

Don't get me wrong we still did awesome this time...

We were the only people with signs and organization.

I'm not really frustrated I just wanted to tell everyone what happened, I already knew what I was supposed to do earlier but I dropped the ball in a lot of ways.

I actually prefer this system to a primary where they can just easily rig the vote and get away with it; at least this way I have a chance to fight back.

After all the straw vote is just a beauty contest I believe we won the delegate battle and I have heard good things from other pooled caucus leaders in my district so I am looking for a big win in the 34th leg. in WA for Ron Paul!

As for Rand 2016 I'm thinking more like re-elect Ron Paul 2016 have you seen the results streaming in from conventions in Georgia, Minnesota, Iowa, and Nevada today? We are taking over the GOP, the party regulars are calling it hi-jacking I call it showing up and representing your precinct for Dr. Paul.

Great post!

Someone needs to be able to contact Washington's Ron Paul campaign to directly complain and see if there is anything that might be done about this type of behavior. As you experienced this, many of us will also experience it and the biggest favor you could do for all of us is to find out what can we do about this if we face it so that we may overcome our opposition! Find out and publish the results!!!!!


Thanks betty

The biggest thing we can do is show up in force and elect our people chairman at these caucuses and conventions. We also need to get involved in the local party planning of these events and make sure our people are going to be selected temporary chair since that is usually who is elected chair.

I called the hot-line number the campaign gave me to report the problem since I was a pooled caucus leader and so I was able to report the incident but I don't expect much to come of that. The moral of the story is we need to get involved in the local Republican Party early and often and show up in force in order to run these events ourselves to ensure fairness and transparency.

FYI the Washington State Ron

FYI the Washington State Ron Paul campaign has now officially folded and moved on. "It's now up to the grass roots" This stuff is happening ALL over. The only thing we can really do is learn from it and if you're into joining the republican party use it to your advantage.

Who told you this?

This is not true at all, we are planning for the conventions with the offficial campaign.

I don't believe that is true

I was told by organizers within the campaign they were going to be forming slates for district and county conventions. Everyone should try to work with the official campaign if you need any help getting in touch with people contact me I have phone numbers for key people; we all need to organize and know who to vote for at these events. As far as it being up to the grassroots, it always was we are the backbone of the campaign, where do you think all the campaign staff and volunteers were drawn from? I know many of these people personally from 2007-2008, we have very good folks out here.


fo the post

Thank you

For bumping my post I think I've edited it a lot since you commented you might want to reread.