-3 votes

Is Second Place Acceptable?

The reason I ask is because second place in delegates is doable and maybe even likely, but first place is extremely improbable.

If second place is acceptable, what do you expect Ron Paul will get from the Republican Party?

If second place is the best he can do, should Ron Paul choose to drop out of the Republican race and get his name on the ballots in all states asap before filing deadlines? Here they are: http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2012/2012pdates.pdf

If Ron Paul stays in through the convention, do you think he should run as a write candidate? Do you think he gets more votes as write-in or with his name on the ballot?

If the extremely improbable were to happen and Ron Paul won the requisite number of delegates to be nominated, do you think the GOP would actually nominate him or do you think the GOP would find a way to deny him the nomination even if he won 1144 delegates?

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As a write in,

wouldn't they have to hand count the ballots? At least we'd get a hand count. Diebold won't give him a fair count if he goes third party anyway.

I know what course others may take;

but as for me, I'll wait until Ron Paul decides what he should do.

If there is no way to win an open convention, or if the

odds of having an open convention shrink drastically as we get near May, then there is no point to second place.

It's a no-brainer that Paul would get more votes actually being on the ballot than as a write-in. I'm not sure why even ask that question. The issues with being or getting on the ballot are separate problems though.

As for the last question, I don't know. Certainly, if he won them outright going into the convention, it would be hard for them to pull that off. But that isn't going to happen. This will have to be done with unpledged and likely unbound delegates. (unbound after the first round that is)

If Paul wins on the second or third ballot, I'm not sure what the GOP would do. After all, it's the convention delegates that have control. If they keep their wits about them, I don't see any move being made by the leadership to change their nomination.

Don't forget, the convention pics the leadership too for the next four years. They don't want to piss off the delegates.

If such a thing did transpire, I foresee a rift in the party, perhaps the appearance of a party split. But in reality, once the Paul faction leaves, the GOP will still be very large and still the second largest party by size. Paul only pulls about 10-15% of Republican voters. Thus even if all of them were to jump ship, while it would hurt the GOP, it wouldn't doom it.

Then the problem, as with the Reform Party, would be to maintain momentum and build the new party strong enough not to fade into oblivion after a few elections.

Decision tree time.

1. Stay the course: Make a little noise all the way to the convention, accept a futile speaking slot, and fade away in the GOP's plans.
2. Drop out: let every freedom lover down. probably won't happen.
3. Put up a fight at the convention: branded a sore loser. They cheated, and got away with, too late to change that.
4. Give 'em all a headache, and go third party: Democrats and GOP scramble for answers to this All STATES MAYEM!

80% of people say they don't like the 2 party system. Can someone please capitalize on this incredible market? Look at the GOP turnout thus far, it's pathetic. You can almost count the voters with your hands and toes.

Don't get your hopes up for California. The GOP/WestCoast Media will have that neatly sewn up for the 2 man race model.

alan laney

If that's true, 80% of people are lying sacks of poop.

Because when the vote, they don't refuse to vote for those two parties do they?

They must not hate the 2-party system that much. Certainly, electoral performance indicates they have ZERO interest in supporting anyone BUT Democrats and Republicans.

Well, they may not be lying, I'll take that back. Perhaps they are just colossal morons.

Amen Alaney

and how about we put pressure on both parties by making it a coalition 3rd party run? For example a Paul/Kucinich campaign would be very competitive and cause a huge migraine for both Dems and Reps. Someone needs to start a petition.

Paul/Satan ticket?

Dennis Kucinich, like Mitt Romney, may be a likeable fellow in person, but he is ideologically antithetical to just about everything The Good Doctor has struggled for his entire political career. Just because Rick Santorum opposes Satan doesn't make Satan our friend.

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If not him, is there any progressive you would find acceptable on a coalition ticket with Ron Paul?

Enough about Dennis. Adding him to a ticket is a sure fire path

to the funny papers.

He's a joke.

He is no where near Ron Paul.

Honestly, if Kucinich were in the VP slot, I'd have a hell of time voting for the ticket.

I don't want Kucinich even in the same city as the Oval Office much less a breath away from it.


I've always liked Kucinich, but BEWARE:

I just found out that Kucinich voted Yay for HR 347.

I know EVERYONE except for 3 voted for this and pickings are extremely slim, but we need to make absolutely sure we know who/what we're voting for.

That said, I'm sure a Paul/Kucinich ticket would pull a lot of Dems to the Paul Side.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Right on.

If the GOP had been "fair and balanced" towards Ron Paul, there would be no need to even discuss 3rd party. If you lose in a fair fight, you simply lose. But, it can sure be demonstrated that the GOP was anything but fair to the Ron Paul campaign. I would use this as my "calling card" in routing the GOP for lying, cheating, thieving. I'd gut the sorry GOP and leave them bleeding on the ground. They deserve it, in my opinion. What does Ron Paul have to lose? Rand? He's a big boy, he can take himself. Even if he lost next election, he'd have the lucrative life time pension and benefits of U.S. Senators!

alan laney

You're wrong

It's not about the GOP. The GOP is a shell and we're taking it WITHOUT YOUR HELP!

will be down to california..

We have great potential in california. Will be on us to get the people to wake up. I think we can stage an upset there and secure the open covnention while beeing near the majority..

Also a good showing for the delegates in texas will help tremendously.

We have so many delegates and even more alternate delegates that will ONLY vote for Ron Paul that the nomination will not be handed out without Ron Paul.
the only thing we might have to fear is if somehow romney and santorum get along.

We are in it to win it.

Second place doesnt help at all.

I see great potential that many santorum delegates may vote in an open convention for Ron Paul.

I hope for agreet speech from the Dr. in Tampa and the biggest support of RP supporters that ever was there in and around the convention!


delegates will not vote for Ron Paul. The are violent extremists who are blood thirsty for a war with Iran. Romney will see that picking Santorum (or someone like him) is the best way to secure the Republican base.

He might offer Ron Paul a cabinet position but you are right second place is really not going to get Ron Paul anything substantial. In a previous post I mentioned the possibility of Romney offering him Treasury Secretary. I doubt Romney will offer it to Paul but it is the best Paul could expect from second place. That post evidently came close to setting a record for negatives (-110 last time I checked), so it is clear that Paul's base doesn't want that.

If on the outside possibility Romney selects Paul for his running mate, you will see Gingrich and/or Santorum running independent.

Not true...

I'd say that MOST Santorum voters are the social conservative Christians, and are voting for him because of the abortion issue. Thus, many of them could be persuaded to come over to Paul as opposed to Romney.

Many of them would have a hard time voting for Romney under any circumstance because he's a Mormon. (Not really a good reason, I know)

So, if it came down to Romney vs. Paul, I'd actually expect around half of them to go with Paul, even though Santorum himself would certainly be endorsing Romney, being the establishment hack that he is. That would be the final blow to Santorum's supposed pro-life credentials.

I know these people

They are pro death.

They will first try to go for a Santorum/Gingrich ticket and then for Santorum/Romney and then Romney/Santorum.

They do not want Ron Paul because he's against drone abortions of Muslim fetuses. Ron Paul will not get on a brokered convention ticket. No way, no how, never ever, notta!!!!

This is the make up of the GOP:

45% Cultural Conservatives
35% Global Corporatists
20% Libertarian

Do the math!!!


Well, I'm not sure, and I can only surmise based on the few dozen Santorum supporters that I know, but if Santorum were to drop out, and I had access to the Santorum supporters (that I know) to talk to them, I'm pretty sure I could convince about 80% of them to vote for Paul rather than Romney.

Part of this is to be a well-respected person of integrity, like Dr. Paul is, and then people in your social circle will at least give you a hearing.

That's why I would never call Santorum "Frothy" or disrespect any other candidate in a personal way. (Not saying you would, by the way...this is only partially a response to your post) I do sometimes lose patience with supporters of other candidates, but then I remember that there was a time when *I* was a moron too, and supported more status quo candidates, and someone had to patiently educate me.

I respect

your respect of other candidates. I think that Santorum is a good guy, loyal to his wife and family, hard working, etc. I wish that campaigns were never about personality.

I agree also that cultural conservatives would find a good friend in Ron Paul but they are too hooked on fear of Muslims, gays, sex, etc. They are too afraid of any candidate who might be slightly tolerant of their perceived enemies. The worship a God they perceive to be sadistictly violent toward his enemies (eternal torment). They are therefore unwilling to vote for Ron Paul.

I know that some of them can be converted but with progressives you would not have to worry about converting us. i am still a progressives even after 14 months on this site. Now for some that makes me a dumbass but if we progressives are generally dumb then that makes us easier sells.

Sadly, it is almost too late to pursue this strategy that I have been advocating but maybe there is a way to do it in 2020.

Good post

I think you see what's going on (in terms of the primaries) and are actually being reasonable. At this point in time, it is literally going to be impossible for Ron Paul to go to the convention with the nomination in the bag. The only person who has a chance of taking it outright is Romney (maybe, maybe Santorum).

Our only chance is a brokered convention as i see it and i think the Paul campaign also sees it like that - even in his "My status as a candidate" piece he acnkowledged that he thinks it's going to a brokered convention because, paraphrased, 'no one candidate will be able to get away'.

How will he get the nomination from there? I have no idea. But i think the campaign knows what their plans are. There has been an increasing mention of bound delegates changing their vote after the first round, and i think their tactic lies within there. But we can only speculate how that will all happen.

Also, i don't think Ron Paul will run as a third party. He's a pretty straight shooter and continually has said he has no intentions to do it and i believe him.

Lastly, while writing this, it just occured to me. What if the plan is to try to get Rand Paul the nomination at the convention? The GOP is much less hostile towards him, he appeals to the pro-war/pro-establishment figures (Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, etc.) and yet is largely in the mould of Ron Paul. Could it be?

I don't

think they will nominate Rand or Ron because the GOP is still very much a pro-MIC party. This should have been clear from the get go and the GOP primaries and caucuses should have been used as a spring board for garnering sympathy from the left and building a coalition candidacy.

An open convention will choose Romney/Santorum.

The trouble with honest men

is they tend to expect other men to be honest back. I watched how the GOP treated Ron Paul in 2008, he was barely allowed to attend the Convention. It boggles my mind that he expects the GOP to allow any real debate at the RNC. Even if brokered, it will be scripted right down to the SURPRISE!!! ending - (Jeb Bush and Sarah Palin - OMG - the crowd goes WILD!!!!)

The filing deadline for Idaho closed last week. "Americans Elect" is about our last hope, as I see it.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Sounds like a good question to ask the GOP vote fixers

If Ron Paul is not the nominee, GOP will lose this election.

Only Ron Paul can attract sufficient independents, Blue Republicans, anti-war Democrats, etc that are required to beat Obama.

The GOP is living a pipe dream if it thinks Paul supporters will 'get in line' behind any of the other 3. Maybe all the vote fixers stealing this election from Dr. Paul should ask themselves if second place in November is good enough.

Help Me Out

I see the filing deadlines are for running as an independent. However, what limit is there if he joins a 3rd party which has already gotten itself onto the ballot in all 50 states?

I assume

you are referring to the Libertarian party. Gary Johnson would take him as his running mate. I'm not sure that would be Paul's best move but it might be better than the a speech at the Tampa convention.

When is the LP convention?

Yeah, That's What I'm Trying To Figure Out

Either the Libertarian Party, American's Select Party, Constitution Party, Green Party, or any of the half a dozen others I saw on my ballot in 2008.

What is to stop Ron Paul from jumping over to one of those in the event that he does not get the GOP nomination? (after the convention of course)


have there deadlines as well. The LP which is his best bet for getting on the ballot has their national convention in May. Ron Paul's campaign is painting itself into a corner with this delegate strategy.

May 4-6

in answer to my own question....don't think that is the plan unless they re-schedule for September.




The GOP would commit suicide

by scheming him out of even a true win with enough delegates. Then, one of two things would play out. A: the GOP would be flushed down the toilet as the corrupt party we know them to be, or B: they would put someone else on the ticket and people would be dumb enough to vote for him anyway, and then said candidate would lose due to Ron Paul being the Independent splitting the vote.