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Whose fault is it a Tacoma soldier killed 16 in Afghanistan? Don't blame Ron Paul!

The soldier who went on a shooting rampage in Afghanistan leaving 16 dead Sunday is from a Tacoma area base called joint base Lewis-McChord, and as a resident in the area I am mortified, stunned and beside myself seething with anger. When will the government of the United States wake up?

I am personally so angry about this that hot tears are forming in my eyes as I type. Why am I angry? I am angry at the United States government who is continuing these wars that have no purpose. I am angry at President Barack Obama for not keeping his campaign promise to bring the troops home.

I am not angry at this soldier, I am angry at the president, the government -- whoever is responsible for starting this war and for keeping this war going, for calling out another unconstitutional war.

I feel so very sad and broken for the staff sergeant who lost it, his wife and two kids and the Afghan families and people trying to pick up the pieces from this horrific event. Do you know what it is like to live in an area with a huge military base? It is devastating!

News story after news article is about another soldier who had been deployed six times and ended his life. Another soldier who lost it and killed his son, wife and himself...Read more:

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11699368-whose-fau...




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1 hour?

Reportedly the soldier hit two villages and caused this much carnage in 1 hour?

Afghan investigators are having difficulty accepting the story put forth. They speculate about 20 soldiers were involved and this might just be the fall guy.

donvino

Ask Gordon, a Vet.

"Murder in Afghanistan, the Coverup Begins (updates)" -
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/11/murder-in-afghanista...

nothing 'crazy' about this murder, more than 1 is involved, the army & govt lies regularly, aided by presstitutes & pastors.

False flag

I think we are being lied to again. Maybe the CIA did it. Maybe it's all lies. oblame hates the troops. He'd do anything to undermine them in secret. In public he is all lovey dovey towards the troops. It's all a crock if you ask me and we will never know the truth.

Keepin' it real.

Afghan probe: Up to 20 US troops behind Kandahar bloodbath

TfT, yes, lies were spread thru the media. now the villagers are speaking ouy. there were no PTSD, no CIA, no single-man drunk. it appears to be a deliberate move, leading to increase in cycle of violence & killings. Some war-mongers want escalation, surges & expansion of war theatre. see -
http://rt.com/news/massacre-kandahar-soldier-american-705/

On Friday, 20 to 30 relatives of the Kandahar shooting victims met with Karzai, where they described the mass murder was planned in advance and was carried out by a number of US forces. see -
http://www.presstv.com/detail/232011.html

Was the soldier on "medication"?

There is a history of antidepressant induced suicide and violence.It is a disgusting case of drug companies not being held with there feet to the fire. They know what the drugs do to people and our corrupt judicial system lets them get away with marketing these lethal products. Take a look here:
http://ssristories.com/index.php There are some honest doctors left: http://www.healyprozac.com/

and what about all the

and what about all the soldiers that have been involved in airstrikes killing countless civilians? What about the PTSD that the AFGHAN PEOPLE DEAL WITH? WHAT ABOUT THE STRESS THAT THE AFGHAN PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH FOR DECADES AS EMPIRE AFTER EMPIRE TURN VALLEYS INTO DUST(the Soviet Union literally did this, Kabul used to be a place of gardens, shopping malls, theaters, just like any other city).

I know we're all American. But number one we're all human. I'm surprised that this particular case is in the news so much seeing as this was always a common occurence, in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Is this soldier worse because he personally went house to house instead of the ones that launch drone strikes that wipe out entire families leaving their guts and limbs splattered about?

PTSD is terrible of course, and yes there's all kinds of stress like "I have to feed my family so I have to do this work"- but it takes a real man to say No I will not kill anyone who never did anything to me no matter what happens and choose not to fight in any such war. Those are the ones that have kept their humanity.

Damn well yes you have to be angry at this soldier and any other soldier that takes innocent life- of course there are people who put them in those situations- they're also to blame. A Nazi didn't get off the hook by saying "I was just following orders" if he killed people- no one gets off the hook. Killing just one person is the worst of crimes and is always treated as such.

When Roman soldiers came by the masses, pillaged, raped and murdered. People didn't say "I blame Caesar not the soldiers" they blamed all parties involved.

The problem with holding only the soldier accountable....

is that we all get to pay. When he commits atrocities with a U.S. uniform on, we all become targets for retaliation. That is why we shouldn't be over there. Bad things are always committed by troops, which is one more reason to only deploy them when it is absolutely critical to our survival.

Also, those of you who are emphasizing personal responsibility only, how about being more responsible and buy a plane ticket and go over there and help them out. Do some time patrolling the streets.

As long as we have a volunteer force, we will have endless war. Only when we are all required to help defend our country, including the politicians and their kids, we will have stupid wars.

We can suck into the military naive kids who think it's all a video game, and want some benefits. Some of them do like to kill, which is what we want, right? Until they go too far.

It is all a joke. Christians for war!

Unfortunately, my son is training now to go over there the end of the month. I hope things simmer down by then, or we start to leave.

SteveMT's picture

Who's fault is it for this massacre?:4 tours/head injuries/PTSD

Did Brain Injury Play a Role in Afghan Massacre?
New details about a staff sergeant in custody for a brutal massacre in Afghanistan has experts looking at the unseen wounds of war.

Soldiers suffer from concussions and mild traumatic brain injury at high rates.
When the frontal lobe is injured, inhibition can be lost.
Mild traumatic brain injuries and PTSD share symptoms.

Medical details about a staff sergeant, who is in custody for killing 16 Afghan civilians in a violent rampage, suggest he may have had one or more traumatic brain injuries.

What those kinds of injuries can do to a person's decision-making is not totally certain. But scientists have linked brain trauma to some behavior, including violence.

A vehicle the accused staff sergeant was in rolled over in Iraq in 2010, a U.S. official told Reuters.
http://news.discovery.com/human/soldier-brain-injury-120313....

Suspect in Afghan Killings Knew War’s Tensions From 4 Tours
By Tony Capaccio and Gopal Ratnam - Mar 13, 2012 4:11 AM MT

The U.S. Army staff sergeant suspected in the killings of at least 16 Afghan civilians had experienced the stress of war from four combat tours far from home in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Army Criminal Investigative Command is probing the killings and seeking a motive for the slaughter as officials in southern Afghanistan came under gunfire while consoling villagers whose relatives were shot dead by the soldier in their homes.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-12/alleged-shooter-arr...

Thanks man

Thanks for taking my six on this Steve. We absolutely must look at the bigger picture. The doctor that cleared him and sent him back is the one that should be looked into. This is where this event started. Who set the policies that made this doctor clear him to go back? I would give anything to see the internal memo.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

SteveMT's picture

You're welcome. Also, just read that he had been trained as a..

"SNIPER!" Have you ever seen the "Manchurian Candidate?" He trained a time bomb, and then we say that we had no warning that this would ever happen.

Two U.S. officials speaking on condition of anonymity said the suspect had been trained as a sniper.
http://www.military.com/news/article/us-official-suspect-in-...

Mind Control?

The soldier is to obviously to blame. We are all responsible for our own actions. Whether under extreme duress or otherwise, only you can make the decisions you choose to make.

UNLESS, and hear me out here, this was a military mind control experiment. Always a possibility, and the perfect control would be to influence someone into such a methodical killing of civilians/families, especially someone who has a family of his own. I am not a super-paranoid conspiracy theorist or anything, but I wouldn't put a thing past our military industrial complex.

The US is known for conducting sick and twisted experiments on soldiers and even on unwitting civilians.

Stop feeding the propaganda machine. Turn off your TV.

prozac

all evidence points to a prozac killing-- like columbine. the guy was ptsd and brain damaged. high probability hes on prozac.

So who's fault is it when an

So who's fault is it when an Afghan kills someone? The opium? Because that is what they use for pain medicine since things like Aspirin is not really available.

That would be the shooter's fault.

Don't know who else to blame.

Whos fault is it if you go and kill someone?

Its YOUR FAULT!!! Its the soldiers fault that HE killed these 16 innocent people. HE KILLED THEM! HE HIMSELF is responsible. He chose to serve in the US imperialistic military. He chose to STAY there. He chose to leave base with his gun and break in these peoples homes and kill them. I dont understand why this is up for debate. Dont blame the US government or military for this, even though they are at fault for millions of wrongful killings as well as these illegal wars, but this 1 soldier is clearly to blame for these 16 intentional murders.

If he was drunk, then that was his own fault. Here in America if I recall you get drunk and drive a car and ACCIDENTALLY hit someone and kill them then you are responsible for the death and YOU go to jail. You bare all responsibility. Also if he "broke down", thats his fault. Noone forced him to enlist in the military. If he had done his homework to begin with then he would have known he is serving a SATANIC cause. The people pulling the strings are greedy satan worshipers and dont care how many people have to die to get what they want.

Yeah, the US government could actually give more of a damn about the troops but they clearly dont, and this should be crystal clear to every person who is in the military. Bottom line is he signed up, he went over there, and he killed these people. Even if he were given orders to kill them, doing your job doesnt justify what he did. He is a psychopath and a killer. In other words, he is a sheeple who now because of his ignorance has to pay the consequences.

SteveMT's picture

How about the country who sent there.....

knowing that you had head injuries, PTSD, and it was your 4th tour of duty along with some big family stressers?

Hmmm, you have a very strong

Hmmm, you have a very strong opinion that I disagree with totally!

You dont believe its

the soldiers fault?

Nice article Stephanie

Thank you!

I have to wonder?

I have to wonder that if the economy and opportunities were better in this country and there was no need for more soldiers because we only had a small standing army with no illegal wars to justify, would this guy have even joined up for reasons of financial survival and necessity? Probably not.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

My friend's husband just lost

My friend's husband just lost his job, he says if he doesn't get hired somewhere soon he'll have to reenlist. You are certainly on to something!!!

Ok, Im really at a loss

So just because this man lost his job, he opts to go fight in an unjust war for money? Money is THAT important that your going to go kill people who dont deserve to die?????????? Please, explain this to where it makes any sense. If you have morals and can justify this logic, please explain.

Absolutely

I have a very liberal/pacifist friend that said to me recently, we need to keep the overseas actions going in order to keep people employed in this bad economy! I think Obama knows this too.

I think your right

I just didnt want to go there. I think so many people join up because they want to kill. Ive heard so many times troops say something like "I cant wait to kill me a terrorist." They are already psychopaths. These people have probably already killed animals before. These are the classic traits of a killer. I wish our military would AT LEAST screen people better. I think its negligence on the US government/military to just hire any in shape guy. And its mainly guys who are involved with this sort of sick violence, murder, and torture. I think there should be questioning of friends and family before someone is allowed to join the military. When troops are "serving" in any country, the most important thing in my opinion is to keep the innocent people of that country safe. I would think the US government would care more about this. I mean look whats happening. Lets say there are still countries out there who would like for the US to come and provide legitimate help, can we even be effective now after all of this? If I were a top official of some country I would be scared to death of having the US military come help my country because the military has proven they cannot be trusted. Its not just murdering of people, youtube murdering and torture of animals. Its murder, rape, torture. I dont see how any country would want our help.

Personally,

I think youre looking at it rather wrong. Along with the enticements of College, secure job and other benefits that are use to boost enlistments, many are conditioned to think that there was actual national defense interests actually involved. When your in for 6 years before you figure it out and the economy is dropped through the floor and other things putting a scare and increase of veterens on the streets. So not much of an easy choice. Hardly any are blood thirsty, animal killing rapists. You can take that comment and shove it up your ass, and it's very disrespectful. Along with the mind conditioning of protecting your country, it is very effective and benefit to train to be life takers and heart breakers to win a war. Hell, I am sure you would kill any motherf-cker that threatens your families life. That's what is engraved. Government's fault for brainwashing hundreds of thousands in the name of their sinly cause. I have a pretty good idea of what this guy does considering the report expecting him to be a support element of a Special operations force. Been there, done that. There are a ton of things that could have influence him. Think of the murdering of soldiers after the Koran burning, and other overreactions from the people in other situations resulting in retaliation killing our service members. There are things that we know that are NEVER reported or brought to light. And whole families have been involved in shenanigans. From 8 yrs old to 70. On top of that, they punish a whole family for one mans wrong doing over there so it shouldnt be that much of a shock for them, except the fact they are using this as a major propaganda piece for the taliban now. Now, in no way am I condoning what he did. He needs to be punished. Probably 20+ years in leavenworth. But, the military puts unreal expectations with this bullshit facade of a war and when you fight like a police force instead of what your brainwashed to do, serious shit happens. The mission is flawed, Reasoning flawed, tactics are flawed. Killing them nicely just gets more of us killed. He needs to be held responisible for his actions but the government deserves atleast half of the blame.

Very disrespectful???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer

Im not being disrespectful, Im stating the facts, These are proven FACTS! So before you go cussing out others, RESEARCH the facts! I know its obviously personal to you since you were some how involved in the military, but the facts are the facts. I didnt say all the troops are psychopaths. I said allot of people sign up to join the military that are already psychopaths. I didnt say YOU were a psychopath, chill out. What I said was purely factual, sorry that offends you.

"Hell, I am sure you would kill any motherf-cker that threatens your families life. That's what is engraved. Government's fault for brainwashing hundreds of thousands in the name of their sinly cause."

You know what, I actually THOUGHT about these wars before believing in them. It's only engraved as you say because you sadly never used critical thinking beforehand. It's engraved due to brainwashing, and you cant be held 100% liable for your brainwashing, but you have some degree of responsibility to research things before you blindly believe what your told.

If my job was to kill people, you sure as hell bet I would research the matter before I just started killing based off of something I was told. I dont care how many times I was told it, I would not kill anyone, much less sign up for a war to kill massive amounts of people without researching and knowing what that war was abaout. Dont act like it's the governments fault for doing this to our troops. Youve got to understand that government propoganda and brainwashing works GREAT on weak minded and/or ignorant people(and I'm not claiming you are). Im sorry it took you some years to wake up, but I was asleep too when these wars began but I did my research to believe these wars were bogas.

"Think of the murdering of soldiers after the Koran burning, and other overreactions from the people in other situations resulting in retaliation killing our service members."

The US soldiers INITIATED that violence by insulting them. To them the Koran is the actual words translated from God so its worse to them than it is for someone to burn the Bible here. We are in other peoples countries and doing these things which are against their laws and beliefs and expect that we can get away with it without any sort of violent or harsh reaction, or "overreaction" in your opinion? Ok so we can do something in their country that we think is a minor offense but then THINK they are overreacting about it when we dont even fully understand their beliefs or live there? Please, you need to wake up a little more. Your not quite there yet. Remember they wouldnt be killing us if we were not over there. They have memories too so if they remember our soldiers killing their people and disrespecting their people and beliefs, it only makes sense for them to be angry and/or HATE Americans.

"Now, in no way am I condoning what he did. He needs to be punished. Probably 20+ years in leavenworth"

You think 20 years is sufficient for killing 16 people, most of them children? lol I dont think so... Just for each kid it should be about 20 or more. That should be at least 320 years based on 20 years per person.

I agree with you on several points.

But no, I was one of the weak minded 18 yr olds nearly 6 years ago. Many are still those with common institution education or no parents teaching them reason instead of book learning that is obviously biased to the government. Just the typically raised in the school system with all the promises of all knowing causes that are justified because someone with a Ph.D in washington said it was good. I Didn't disagree with you that we instigated the violence. We've cause 95% of our problems with them all. I'm on that side of the fence. I was just giving more perspective for the disillusionary snap for the soldier. In every war, the soldiers end up not fighting for people, their country or much of the cause, but turns to defend their brothers. They all (well most) realize that violence is shit, and they're in it for each other. Many wish all war will stop. Ever since the military became business casual and the government continues this escapade, exploitation will be immense. Could be apart of the reason for the psychological break down. I believe I understand their culture pretty well. I've spent a lot of time on many aspects of it. And not just Afghanistan and customs and courtesies, But Islam, several sects of Sunni and Shia. Especially the Twelvers of Shia since that's the most prevelant now among Islamic Countries (key one being Iran). If you want to fight a neocon on Iran and their culture, you better know as much as the Human Intel guys who live and breathe their culture. To further yourself you have to play devils-advocate and remind yourself of the principles you stand on and why. I'm woken up, thank you very much. Btw, 1 year in leavenworth is like 10 in civilian prison. so lets give him 40 in leavenworth. He'll die before he gets out. One thing is common. The love of money is the root of all evil. And that is our government. Power and Money.

You have not been around the professional Army much

I've worked with them for four years and have seen this very infrequently. Most are more concerned with supporting their families or finding meaningful work. Many are also quite patriotic, especially those that joined after 911. Quite a few reenlist or agree to be redeployed because the deployment pay is considerably higher than when not down range. Perhaps some of our military folks can comment.

This soldier sounds like a man who was impaired, clearly. He needed help and for whatever reason did not get it.

The biggest scam are the contractors and the big brass overseas etc. who are making the bucks on the backs of these men and women and us taxpayers.

This is it in a nutshell

What you say here are the facts and exactly what I see in every one of these events. As for the first domino we have to go back to the beginning of our country and war for profit,it has been perpetual ever since.

One very good example:

http://www.dailypaul.com/211035/the-not-so-talked-about-fami...

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Whose fault????

First and foremost it is the solders fault! We have an all volunteer military. Whether he did this on his own or if he was ordered doesn't matter. "HE" volunteered to do what he did. You can blame our chicken shit government for starting the war but this sorry piece of cowardly shit of a person is responsible for what he did.

Stop playing liberal blame games to try and make this person look innocent.