20 votes

Penalty for Legally Bound Delegates Voting for Ron Paul?

What is the penalty for a "legally" bound delegate getting to the RNC and voting for Paul anyway? Do they even count the delegates outloud? Isn't the vote counted in a secret room? Even if it is known they jumped ship, it seems "legally bound" is defined differently for each state and may not be a very bad penalty! Just brainstorming outloud here...

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They simply will be counted

They simply will be counted for Romney.

Also...
PLEASE tell me that you are not so stupid as to think that if you DID steal the nomination away from Romney that his supporters (of which he has many more than Paul) would turn around and vote for Paul anyway.

Ron Paul would get less than 25% of the vote in the most embarrassing loss in presidential history. He would likely lose to Romney as a write in. And Rand Paul could kiss his career good bye.

Hey we are not stealing anything

we are taking it by sheer numbers. Legally.Romney is finished.

I hope you come back after the convention in August right here to this thread and since you are new there is a "bookmark" feature. Use it and we'll talk later but be prepared to be severely embarrassed because you do not understand the delegate process or what is happening in States everywhere across the nation.

November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

what is the largest number of delegates

that Ron Paul has collected in any primary state? What are the top 3 delegate-rich primary states for him? He's doing fine in caucus states where turnout is low and where they make up the rules as they go. But in many primary states, many or most of the delegates are bound (where it be WTA by state, WTA by CD, or proportionally) to candidates that get lots of votes. I don't know of any of these states where Paul has more than 4 bound delegates. Romney, comparatively, has huge numbers of bound delegates. How exactly is Paul taking it by sheer numbers? In which primary states did Paul get more delegates than Romney?

Do they even ask?

Do they even ask? Or does the RNC just count the bound delegates' votes on the first ballot the way they are pledged?

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

There's a vote

They have to let delegates vote, otherwise everyone wouldn't have to gather in one place for the RNC.

The two most important days in your life are the day you are born...and the day you find out why. -Mark Twain

Apparently we got shop trolls here again so I'll just....

.....Answer your question instead.

The answer is all delegates, especially the maximum numbers will be counted no matter what.

Ron Paul up by 2 against Obama
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/polls/221163-rasmussen-o...

Who says Romney has more votes?
Look who's the real majority
Ron Paul crushing Obama by 2 right now

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/polls/221163-rasmussen-o...

Do this at the state convention..

...After the national delegates are chosen at the state convention, move to suspend the rules and unbind the delegates. In states where Ron has the most delegates at the state convention, if we control enough of the delegates, then we make the rules. If we unbind them at the state convention, then we don't have to worry about what to do about bound delegates at the national convention. We rule the caucus states already, but imagine if we could even unbind just 10 primary states, like Arizona or California.
Remember, political parties are private clubs. The members make the rules, not the government. When we control the delegate count at state conventions, we make the rules. Just be sure to make that motion to unbind them AFTER the national delegates are chosen. That's basically just so the establishment doesn't have any time to see what is happening and pull more BS.
Remember this folks, this can be OUR private club if we want it to be, so feel no moral obligation to follow the traditions passed down by the club. We are the Republican party now, and if we have the most delegates, then we change the rules and unbind them for the national convention.
This is the way we get our freedom. If we don't do it this way, chances are that our strong belief in the 2nd ammendment will have a lot to do with our "plan B".

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

Having the numbers at state convention where I live....

...will be hard. I live in the state of Wal-Mart. Big money and big egos here. I am not holding out hope that RP will have the numbers at our state convention. Wal-Mart is pumping money into Santorum's campaign and people that work for them may feel some allegiance (and/or fear of retribution).

I have no allegiance to them whatsoever, and have been boycotting them since I found out about their contributions to Santorum. Sam Walton would roll over in his grave if he knew.

I may be wrong about the numbers, there's a big college town in the county neighboring mine, and there is a huge Ron Paul base there. The lower parts of the state do not benefit from Wal-Mart's money as much and I don't think it would be a factor. We might get the numbers, but the point is I'm just not sure.

Arkansas is a primary state, so there will be bound delegates based on percentages of the straw poll.

I'm thinking really the only way to beat the big money here is to become a delegate for a candidate I'd never vote for, and to abstain from voting on the first round.

Oh, and the GOP here has informed people that in order to become a delegate, you have to stay at the hotel they have reserved in Tampa. $200/night for 5 nights. I don't know many college students that can afford that.

I need to know for sure that I can abstain from voting in the first round and will still be able to vote in a second round, though.

The two most important days in your life are the day you are born...and the day you find out why. -Mark Twain

In 2008 Donations from other supporters

helped with travel and hotel expenses for delegates. Those who can afford to pay their own way did.

Depending on how many are allowed in each room, the room cost can be shared at least 4 ways, some can bring a sleeping bag.

In 2008, because of the protests (which are likely to occur again)the delegates were bussed from the hotel to the convention, sometimes taking alternate routes to avoid the protests.

There was security at each hotel, and delegates wore lanyards for identification.

I've heard about the hotel garbage...

I'm in WA county. I wonder how many people can share a room at this fancy place. Surely you shouldn't need to pay 200 a night for one person.

Hopefully...

I'm hoping that my husband and I both get chosen to be delegates. I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with a married couple sharing a room.

I reserved a room in Wesley Chapel (30 minutes outside of Tampa) in case neither of us gets chosen. We want to be there for the Veteran's march anyway.

The two most important days in your life are the day you are born...and the day you find out why. -Mark Twain

You got it

Become a delegate for Santorum if you can. Perhaps you can even persuade a few other of your "friends" - fellow santorum delegates- to vote RP in the second round.

If I end up at the Convention as a delegate...

...I plan to stand right next to the head delegate and wait for his/her talley response at the convention. Knowing what the count is before hand and if anything is wrong in the RP count; I plan to yell immediately a long loud "B#llSh&t" response.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI

"The belief is worthless if the fear of social and physical punishment overrides the belief."

You Can Simply Object To The Count

You can simply object to the count if it is given incorrectly and the chairman is forced to do a roll call vote for your state.

Rule No. 37Roll Call
(a) Upon all subjects before the convention requiring a roll call, the states shall becalled in alphabetical order.(b) In the balloting, the vote of each state shall be announced by the chairman of suchstate's delegation, or his or her designee; and in case the vote of any state shall be divided, thechairman shall announce the number of votes for each candidate, or for or against anyproposition; but if exception is taken by any delegate from that state to the correctness of such announcement by the chairman of that delegation, the chairman of the convention shall direct the roll of members of such delegation to be called, and the result shall be recorded inaccordance with the vote of the several delegates in such delegation.
http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/77192285

Perhaps yelling "Division" might be better--

A call for Division is a call for a show of votes---not that it did them any good in Athens-Clarke County Georgia!
One thing to remember is that the RNC is all recorded--that being said, they have their ways to distort what is shown on TV. (Deliberately cutting the mikes to prevent Ron Paul votes being reported and posted, etc)

Division is from Robert's

Division is from Robert's Rules, the RNC uses different rules.

They have in the past...

Hey, this occured in 1912, but interesting.

http://partners.nytimes.com/library/politics/camp/whouse/con...

It's been a century, maybe it's time to bring the idea back.

Wow ... 42 ballots

Very interesting, thanks for sharing that.

also, are we dealing with gop rules or actual laws

If just rules, we have a lot more wiggle room.

Also, even if fines are involved, we can do a money drive to help them pay the fines.

Bottom line: are delegates should have absolutely no fear of gop blowback. We got their backs.

Rules

Post with RNC rules and other info: http://www.dailypaul.com/34775/2008-republican-national-conv...

"If you put a gun to my head and said vote Romney/Gingrich/Santorum...I would say pull the trigger!"

Abstain

I read a comment in another thread that was saying most states (if not all) allow delegates to abstain from voting in the first round. I can't vote for a different candidate, but abstaining is just as good a tool to push the convention to a second round of voting (if Romney has 1,144 and 100 of them are Ron Paul supporters and choose not to vote the first round then Romney only gets 1,044 votes; we go to second round).

Look more into that (I'll try to dig up some information on it), but that is probably the best approach to this. Don't risk getting kicked out or having your second vote not count, this is all about using the RULES AGAINST THE ESTABLISHMENT!

Jack Wagner

Yep yep yep

We need to confirm this abstain hypothesis...

Since Ron Paul can't win in the first round anyway, a legally bound Romney delegate abstaining is just as good as voting for Ron Paul in the first round - it will have the same effect - Romney wouldn't get the vote.


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

However,

...isn't the rule that if you abstain from voting in the first round, you then have to abstain from any future voting as well? Thought I read that somewhere.

I think this bound

thing is garbage. If they know how many bound delegates they have for the candidates then they basically know who the winner is so why even have a first round of voting? It's like all the other fraud we see happening - a make-believe scenario to make it appear as if you're a part of the process. This isn't card check. They won't know who voted anyway unless the whole process has become totally unionized and voting is open instead of secret.
Either vote your conscious or abstain as has been suggested. That the RNC believes they can hold anyone to a vote is against every principle of a fair voting process - our founders would be APPALLED!!

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

The basic idea is it's more democratic

Back in the day just party leaders picked the nominee. Then, gradually, the rules changed to be more democratic. I mean, what's the point of having a primary if the delegates get to vote for whoever they want anyway?


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

If you are legally bound to a

If you are legally bound to a candidate, they will not give you a ballot, just automatically count you toward your candidate. Only once you are freed up will you be given the chance to actually vote.

I don't think the process works like that or you

wouldn't be needed to show up. No, you have to actually cast a vote.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

thegreen papers.com has this about Alabama delegates

"No person named as a delegate or alternate delegate pledged to a person as the Republican nominee for President of the United States shall cast a contrary vote at such convention unless first released by (a) public statement or in writing by such presidential candidate or (b) two-thirds vote of all members of the Alabama Delegation to the Republican National Convention similarly pledged; and the vote of any person who attempts to violate the provisions hereof shall not be allowed, but such vote may instead be cast for the person to whom such delegate or alternate delegate is pledged either by the Chairman of the Alabama Delegation to the Republican National Convention or by the Secretary of such Convention."

Does this mean that if 2/3 of the other bound delegates vote in favor of releasing an "incognito" Ron Paul delegate, he/she is free to vote for Paul?

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/AL-R

2/3rds

This, if it is going to be done, is done at the state convention. Before they get to Nationals.