56 votes

Ron Paul: Crowd of 5,000 in IL, but he's not winning?

"President Paul" chants broke out like usual Wednesday evening in Illinois by thousands of supporters who showed up for a chance to be in the same room with the Rock Star GOP candidate, but something very unusual happened...Read more:

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11713777-ron-paul-...



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ecorob's picture

the election is being stolen from us...

before our very eyes!

Tampa...August...make plans to be there!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Compare

Compare Ron Paul's visit to U of I yesterday to Newt Gingrich's campaign stop in Rosemont, Illinois yesterday. One hundred people turned out for Newt. The room seems as empty as his words.

Newt Gingrich
http://www.chicagotribune.com/videogallery/68832152/News/Gin...

The Chicago Tribune doesn't show you the 'crowd' that Newt spoke to, but I will.
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo249/paidher/dt_common_s...

Ron Paul
http://www.news-gazette.com/multimedia/photogallery/2012-03-...

How many casual Ron Paul

How many casual Ron Paul supporters are there compared to casual Romney or Santorum voters?

Ron Paul voters tend to be very hardcore and politically involved...which might make their presence at a straw poll or rally event skewed.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

You are correct

And all the polls in every state confirm it.

Illinois latest polls.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/il/il...

Pretty much every poll has Paul on 7 to 12% of the vote.

People need to start thinking about how Ron Paul can broaden his appeal beyond his core base and attract new voters.
I have already posted my thoughts on the matter.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

First of all, we are WINNING,

First of all, we are WINNING, and secondly we are not "losing" due to inactivity of the people, we are "losing" due to election fraud-I think its going to be up to us to put a stop to the corruption-getting recordings of the fraud is crucial. Records must be kept, and also we need to decide what we are going to do about this, if we don't address this issue, we are never going to make headway.

The media is and will

The media is and will continue to ignore Paul. You know that and every other Paul supporter knows that.

The other candidates have the media doing their "get out the vote" by building up a "neck and neck Romney vs. Santorum" race in one state, thereby telling voters that they really need to get out there and vote for one of those two.

Paul doesn't have that luxury, and so YOU have to get out the vote. That's the most critical message that has been missing from the Paul campaign.

Hawaii wasn't "rigged". There have been no reports of vote "siphoning". What happened was there were 540 Paul supporters who donated an average of $163 each to the Paul campaign and then only brought an average of less than 2 people each to caucus with them.

We've seen the same thing in just about every other state. Think of how many "I just went and voted in Virginia!!!" or "Here's a photo of my Tennessee ballot" posts you've seen here and on reddit. Look back at the precinct level results for just about any state and you'll find lots of precincts where there was just one lone Paul vote.

The Paul campaign can't win this for you and the media certainly won't. Each Paul supporter has to be responsible for getting 8, 10, 20 ... voters to the polls to vote. Getting themselves and one or two others there simply won't be enough for Paul to win.

We're losing because Paul's success on the stump at large

rallies and town halls is NOT translating into success at the polls. There are a lot more people who support Romney/ Santorum than there are those of us who support Paul. In the Republican party, we need to be honest with ourselves and acknowledge that we are a small, yet irate, minority. Four or eight years from now things may be different, but we are not there yet. Sad but true.

We're losing because election

We're losing because election fraud plain and simple.

No. You are incorrect. Ron Paul is polling at or below 10%

both in national polls and in almost every state poll conducted. We just don't have the numbers. It sucks, I know. I wish we were doing better. But you can't just be ignorant and blame it all on fraud. There may be some fraud here and there, but it wouldn't be nearly enough voted, even if rectified, to get us a win in many of these states where we're doing so poorly. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. We've got to be honest with ourselves here.

How do we know?

How do we know that there isn't fraud on the polls as well?

There has been some very compelling evidence posted here on the DP over the last couple of days that vote fraud is going on.

Even if the polls are right, Paul supporters are more dedicated than average, so an average of 12% in the national polls would probably translate to 20% or something at the actual vote.

You are right that we wouldn't be winning that many states anyway, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dr. Paul won 4 to 6 states (including some early states such as Iowa and Nevada which would have increased his support for later states) if the vote count was fair and square.

The ONLY state where your theory may in fact

get us a win would be Maine. We only lost by a couple hundred votes. In any other state, the margin we would have needed to overcome the other candidates would be basically impossible. It would number in the thousands. So, I appreciate your point, but only in Maine is what you're saying a real possibility.

Why?

Have you looked at the charts which have been posted and are being analyzed by statisticians? It seems to show that, in some cases, 1000 votes are "reassigned" from one candidate to another in a single COUNTY.

The Nevada vote patterns were very strange, and IMO the most likely explanation is that several thousand votes for Paul were simply deep-sixed.

You are right, though, that just because Paul rallies draw 3000 while Santorum's draw 300, doesn't mean our support is 10 times larger. However, it's hard to figure out how Santorum gets 3 times as many votes as Paul, with those numbers.

Most of the people who are

Most of the people who are voting for Romney and Santorum are not passionate about either of them. They just go vote for the person that they hear the most about on tv. That's what the exit polls show.

Also consider that the vast majority of registered voters aren't voting in the primaries... because they don't support Romney or Santorum.

You can also look at donations. Paul leads the other candidates by the number of donors. He has more people who support him enough to send hard earned cash. In Hawaii Paul had over 500 donors, Romney had a little over 100.

..... Large rallies don't work because they give the attendees a false sense of "there's no urgent need for me to bother a bunch of my friends to get them out to vote because there are SO MANY PEOPLE HERE."

I don't require you to educate me

on Ron Paul. I know all about him. I'm a huge supporter of his, through and through. So your attempt to try and persuade me to your point of view is unecessary. I agree with you. But the FACT still remains, we do not have the numbers in many of these states to win. If you try to argue otherwise, you are either plain ignorant or just unwilling to accept reality.

I realize this is difficult to accept, but it's true. Honestly, our best hope is a fight at the convention. I don't see any other way to have an impact at this point. Our poll numbers are going down with each successive loss.

>we do not have the numbers

>we do not have the numbers in many of these states to win.

We have more than enough supporters to win in almost every state. The problem is the Paul campaign isn't stressing to those supporters that their vote isn't enough and they need to bring lots of friends and family to vote with them.

The point I was trying to make is that most of the people who are voting for the other candidates aren't really "supporters" and really don't fully agree with those candidates. The 4,250 votes that Romney got and the 1,712 votes that Paul got in Hawaii are not a measure of how many supporters they have. Some of those votes were by people who decided five minutes before they voted. Many of those votes came from people who have no clue where those two candidates stand on most of the issues. "numbers" do not equal supporters.

So if you look at real supporters... Paul has PLENTY of those and the other campaigns don't. The problem is those Paul supporters have this weird idea that getting someone to go vote for Paul means convincing them that Paul is right on all of the issues and getting them to be a supporter. None of the other campaigns do that. They just want warm bodies in the voting booth.

If all of the Paul supporters understood that they have to get out the vote and bring 10 or 20 warm bodies into the voting booth like the media does for the other campaigns then Paul would have the "numbers".

Great work Steph

Another great article.
Posted on Twitter.

Good idea to send it to Drudge Report.

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Too many Ron Paul supporters come for the SHOW, but...

...not enough Ron Paul supporters are willing to GO
to the polls and caucuses, or into their pockets to cough up cash.
If only the revolution could be broadcast on MegaEMediaCorporation Google's YouTube...

Think I'm exaggerating? Doug Wead doesn't. See http://www.dailypaul.com/219355/excellent-post-super-tuesday... at 14:50 (the question he's answering starts at 14:33).

Also, the campaign needs more money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
See the above link at about 26:45 (the question he's answering starts at 25:46).

*****************************************
Television: Why do you think they call it "programming"?

Awesome article

when you see that crowd, it is obvious there is voter fraud going on. I am positive.

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine

The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!

Yes

There is a voters fraud and to think that we Ron Paul supporters won't go vote is completely crazy. We are winning and the establishment knows it ! We just have to stay positive ;)

The Paul campaign has gone on record as saying

that they're large rallies and record attendance at stump speeches DO NOT translate into success at the polls. So, in fact, you are incorrect when you say that all Ron Paul supporters who go to see him end up voting for him when it comes time for election day. It is very real, and it is widely acknowledged by senior Paul staff that it is happening. So, continuing to ignore facts isn't going to change anything.

true, but

"large rallies and record attendance at stump speeches DO NOT translate into success at the polls."

For most of this race Ron et al. have been stopping there, leaving unsaid what is becoming more and more obvious, but recently Dr. and Mrs. Paul, along with Doug Wead and others, have supplied the missing piece between large rallies and lack of success at the polls: stolen votes and fraud.

Please let the writer know

Please let the writer know about the errors in the column

Ben Swann broadcasts in Cincinnati not Chicago.

Must have all facts correct, else the entire article is suspect. This is the same critism I give to anti-Paul columns. I don't have an Allvoices account and can't add the feedback.

Thanks, I am the author.

Thanks, I am the author. Generally, I am good about double-checking my facts...unfortunately I was very tired last night when I slammed that report out (sorry that sounds lame). I fixed it. Please feel free to write me anytime at stephealy@yahoo.com. Very much appreciated.

Two words

Please send this to Drudge. This is a fantastic

article. You can submit it in the lower right hand corner of
The Drudge Report.

~Your perception becomes your reality~

when you have eliminated the impossible

whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

Looks like fraud to me.

Looks like election fraud to me.

RON PAUL 2012 * Restore America * Bring The Troops Home
http://www.texasuncensored.blogspot.com

I have Little Doubt That

I have Little Doubt That Fraud at some level has taken place.
But there is another factor here that seems to add to the apparent discrepancy between the crowds and enthusiasm for RP vs the other contenders, and the actual votes for Rp vs the contenders. Specifically, enthusiasm. It motivates, but it may not motivate in large numbers. And less enthusiasm won't necessarily keep ma and pa Republican at home on election day so they can't flip a coin to vote for Romney or Santorum.

Nobody Motivates Better Than Ron Paul

That is an important observation - that the people must show up and vote to become delegates. But how can Santorum or Romney motivate people to do the needed job, but Ron Paul can not?

Gene Louis
http://www.survivaloftheslickest.com/
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

My point applies far more to

My point applies far more to primary states where the selection process is no different than your run-of-the-mill election, whether national, state or local. The "coin flippers" are those folks (usually over 40 and who couldn't count the number of times they've entered the voting booth) who vote habitually. In other words, it is simply part of their routine in life.
Certainly voting is good... if it is done by an informed electorate (big qualifier there). But for many, it is the actual act of voting that serves the civic duty, not the time and work before hand to determine who best to vote for - or for that matter, what are the issues and what positions make the most sense.

So you can have an inflamed and enthusiastic minority for Ron Paul - vibrant, young and highly motivated. But if you have a majority of TV zombies who think voting is more important than making a wise choice, or who think that "fair and balanced" FOX News is a reliable source for researching the wisest choice, then RP will lose the primary.