86 votes

US Marine to be discharged for saying his oath is to the Constitution, not Prez

Story from MSNBC...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46820717/ns/us_news-security/#.T...

Perhaps what is most disturbing of all can be found in the comments... all the "You joined the service, you knew the rules, now blindly follow them" comments are front and center, but ALL comments saying he should not be punished for refusing to obey UNLAWFUL/UNCONSTITUTIONAL orders are conveniently censored away from view, with the flimsy explanation "comment collapsed by the community."

See for yourself. I for one am disgusted more by our media-manipulated, STUPID populace who would call this Marine a traitor than the expectedly draconian response by his higher-ups.

Let's hope Stewart Rhodes with Oath Keepers can provide this Marine with some legal assistance ASAP.



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Let's see if this helps

I don't know about "policy," however...

the soldier is in the right in saying the constitution trumps the president. Presidents and soldiers pledge to defend the constitution. What does the constitution pledge towards?

I understand that soldiers also pledge to follow a president's orders, however, these positions of "president," "soldier," "congressman," "senator," etc, are created through the constitution to enact and preserve its laws; they are tools that work for the constitution. You can't pledge to a tool, even a good one, because that same tool can always be used against you.

How can a soldier defend the constitution when following unconstitutional orders? In this instance, follow the president, you break your oath. Follow the constitution, you break your oath. How does one solve this problem?

The oath sounds flawed, right? No. To be clear, a pledge to a president is meant to keep you in line while defending the constitution. The most important component in an oath is the constant, or the thing that rules over all. The constitution is that constant, and naturally, it trumps the president.

Upon choosing liberty, I realized we haven't much left...or do we?

If he did not mention the

If he did not mention the president by name, then I find the use of this regulation to be borderline unconstitutional, if not. As long as a soldier does what he is supposed do, why should they care what he thinks, beyond just making sure he isnt making threats or being billigerant to those around him.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

His oath is to the Constitution, period...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_oath
The term Hitler oath refers to the oaths of allegiance sworn by German Wehrmacht officers and soldiers as well as civil servants during the Third Reich between the years 1934 and 1945. The oath pledged personal loyalty to the person of Adolf Hitler in place of loyalty to the constitution...
Prior to the decree, both members of the armed forces and civil servants had sworn loyalty to "the People and the Fatherland" (Volk und Vaterland); civil servants had additionally sworn to uphold the constitution and laws of Germany.
The new law decreed that instead, both members of the armed forces and civil servants would swear loyalty to Adolf Hitler.

Is it about the Oath?

Media outlets should be showing Obamas lack of upholding his Oath? "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." Hes not setting a very good example for the soldiers now is he? Its time to dismiss this Dictator! He has put the Constitution in a paper shredder over and over!

OK

So what's a poor jarhead supposed to do when a superior officer attacks the written word of the Constitution the aforementioned jarhead is sworn to defend with his life?

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

Just another reason....

Just another reason to look at when I discourage people from joining the military. I just think it's sad that our men and women can be put in harms way to "fight for our freedoms" while at the same time not being allowed the freedom themselves to become outright politically active/vocal. Absolute hypocrisy... but what else do we expect from an all-intrusive/abusive government? The sheeple really need to wake up... fast.

The Nuremberg Trials

After WWII the Nazis were tried as war criminals and there were many who used as a defence the fact that they were simply following orders.

This defence was denied them and it has since been an international standard that mere obedience of a command when committing a crime against humanity or a war crime is not an acceptable defence. Crimes against humanity include apprehending people, removing them against their will and detaining them indefinitely without due process. This is now possible under the 1021 section of the NDAA in the United States whether used against Americans or foreigners.

There is little doubt that the US, the UK, France and Israel are guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity. Those soldiers, sailors and airmen who have committed war crimes in the ongoing conflicts on the orders of their superiors are also guilty. Since the perpetrators are presently the most powerful military force in the world their crimes cannot be brought to trial and punished.

Marine Sgt. Gary Stein is simply stating that he will not obey an unlawful command. This is likely related to the NDAA and the possibility of being ordered to detain American citizens against their will and without due process. I believe that this should be the default position for any member of the military and should be accepted as such by anyone in the chain of command.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC9pc4U40sI

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Oorah Marine! Fight for your rights and freedom

Sgt Gary did nothing wrong. He clear said unlawful orders that is unconstitutional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces_oath...

"I, XXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I don't care who you are in the chain of command. We need to stand up to protect and defend the CONSTITUTION of the United States. Great job Sgt. Gary!!!

LOL at anyone who agrees with this guy...

...because you obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

Read this and educate yourself:
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/oathofen...

Notice anything in there about the president?

Another Marine leading the charge ..Thank you

Thank you for supporting the oath to the Peoples Constitution which embodies all of the peoples rights.This is an Oathkeeper who shall not be silenced.
The revolution has got your'e back.

Opresso De Liber
Life,Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness!
Conscious of Our Creator and Source of our Liberties.

A *truly* honorable Marine (finally)

Upon joining, they SWORE to uphold/defend the USC.
Hence, it's their DUTY to refuse orders which violate the USC
(that's what "defending it" MEANS).
So when they take part in UNdeclared (and hence UNconstitutional) wars, they are directly violating their oath by undermining that which they swore to defend (and the very foundation of our liberties).
So if he is a "traitor", one must ask "to WHAT ?".
To a rabid mob of thieves, mass-murderers, and psychopaths ?
Every founding father was a "traitor".
They were also HEROES.

Oath puts enlisted in spot

If we elect a dictator as president, its our fault for putting the military personnel into a position of having to still obey the oath they have taken.

This leads me to wondering if they brought back the draft and you refused to take the oath due to a dictator in office...what would they do? I probably don't want to know the answer.

And Don't Forget...

SPC Michael New. In 1995, under Clinton, he received a dishonorable discharge for refusing to wear the UN uniform for deployment as a mercenary in the Balkan Islands. His crime? Obeying his Oath of Allegiance to the Constitution and the US Army (not a foreign army known as the UN)

http://www.mikenew.com/index.html

All Rights Reserved, c 1791
RP 2012 and beyond....

Big deal

They didn't go to that illegal war/conflict wearing UN stuff....but they did go. Changing the "packaging" but the mission goes on.

Glad New got kicked out. I wonder why New never questioned his being stationed in Germany? How do you defend America in Germany? At least he wasn't a trigger puller. I think he was a medic.

One less soldier to pay for. It's even better as he won't receive any more tax payer money.

Wonder if....

there's a few good Generals, and other brave servicemen and women, who will stand up for the COnstitution as the ultimate rule of law- rather than the elected dictatorship known as the Presidency. We need a groundswell, this could be a tipping point for the empire if the crooks in the administration are forced to state that their will is more important than the peoples voices and the rule of law.

Visit https://soundcloud.com/politics-of-freedom for all recent Ron Paul interviews, speeches, debates, forums, panels, press conferences, news coverage, and Texas Straight Talk updates!

"Terrorism is the war of the poor, while war is the terrorism of

if there are

you can bet they'll be purged. Just like Patton and MacArthur.

"If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks], which has its origin in North America, should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will hav

I just posted this page on the Oath Keeper Web Site

Maybe the Oath Keepers can put something together to help this Marine After all That is what we are all about.

Good work. Thanks for doing

Good work. Thanks for doing that, he needs all the help he can get.

Hypocracy of politicians

I can remember the Nuremburg trials at end of WW11. When german soldiers where tried/convicted for war crimes even though their defence was 'following orders'. Parallel here 'soldiers required to obey all orders irrespective of legitimacy - without the imminent prospect of Nuremburg trial scenario. POTUS can get away with anything it seems and the military eschelon appear to play along with the political whims. US dictatorship is alive and kicking - the republic is almost non existant - I fear that the US has abolished its grand history of liberty and freedom under its constitution.

Was this officer enlisted?

There is a great difference in the oath taken.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

enlisted

Read the article - Sgt Stein is an enlisted man he is a non commissioned officer - google for the different oaths that enlisted personnel swear to that commissione dofficers swear - however both oaths refer to the constitution - which is the meat of the point that Sgt Stein is making.

Agreed but?

The difference is in the order of oath. One allows an out and one does not.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Military - political tool

When will enough people wake up - It is so obvious that the military is been used for political/big business ambitions and not for defence of the american people. Politicians can flaunt the constitution/ and use the military for their own goals BUT when military personnel try to 'make people aware' then they are 'condemned' without any sense of realistic objective analysis. Military people 'lay their lives on the line' for the constitution not for those in power who totally disregard the constitution- I really get annoyed when I see that the military is been used as a tool for political and big business enrichment - I speak as an ex serviceman of 22 years service whom despices the way the military is being grossly misused by the power elite. My sympathy and support to Sgt Stein and his many other 'silent'colleagues. POTUS is allowed to make political speeches to 'rally' military people but the opposite is ridiculed and condemned by some - what a topsy turvy world we now live in!!!!!!!!!!

About Those Comments...

The immoral and unethical U.S. citizens want complete and total adherence to.. uh.. nothing really. We have a sort of "Tyranny Through Anarchy" centering around random policing the world, war mongering, torture and assassination.

Unfortunately this story won't end without violent resistance against government. The hired goons of an ignorant and corrupted society desiring tyranny will deem anyone who resists a "terrorists". My "non-violent" solution was to support Ron Paul and candidates like him. But I'm not we've got enough time.

Violence is NOT the answer.

The message of liberty is spreading. Yes, it has much further to go, but we do not need to convince everyone. We just need to convince those in positions of power. This Marine is just one example: trust me, for every 1 person like this guy, there are at least 2 more service members who agree with him in adherence to oath wholeheartedly, but do not outwardly say so. When push comes to shove, and illegal orders come down from on high, these people WILL stand up for their oaths, and defend the CONSTITUTION.

Our mission must be to encourage the message to promulgate as far and as wide as possible, throughout the halls of power, on the state, local, and national levels.

We do not need 100% agreement. We don't even need 51% agreement. We need a solid 15% in the appropriate locations and offices. As long as we have these core people in place (in the military, in the police forces, in the halls of government and business), those who would annihilate the rights of the People will fail. Liberty WILL be victorious.

Cyril's picture

+1. Couldn't agree more

Violence / rebellion from the troops themselves ?

that's EVERYTHING the traitors in charge secretly WISH FOR to happen.

Let us NOT do them this favor.

They would still be able to crush the minority AND they would get more "LEGITIMACY" for their evil agenda.

TRUTH CAN ALWAYS TRANSPIRE THROUGH PEACEFUL ACTION...

... when you give it a chance (and enough SWEAT).

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

...what he said...

...what he said...

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

To Think That An Illegal Alien Can Do This To An America Patriot

Why doesn't our gutless military remove that SOB from the White House..

He is obviously an enemy combatant, illegal alien, anti american, communist SOB...

If we can elect an illegal alien to the highest office in the land and have him treat one of own like this, we are doomed to living in tyranny not unlike that of Nazi Germany..

God have mercy on us all...

Wow

There are many things I could say about your comment but I will just stick to reminding you that removing the puppet doesn't stop the puppet master.