-36 votes

Any "sovereign citizen" type believers here?

I am curious. Are there any Paulites here who believe in the sovereign citizen theory. I don't, but I am just curious.

If you do, please explain where you have read that your interpretation of the law is correct, and in what regard? By that I mean as to the major aspects of their theories..and I mean an authoritative source.

It seems to me they all make crap up and say and think the same things, but there is no place which one can go (other than their own materials they make) to verify what they say.

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Anarchon -without ruler.

Don't know any theory, don't need one.

Free includes debt-free!


I'm listening to this when I see this post on the side


If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison


there is truth there

citizens are subjects

sovereign citizen is an oxymoron

These are the People I run with :

For ref. : "Check episode 569" = On pg 11 .



Listen up to at least 0:67:00 in the following. Latest Court Action reports from them that's doin'. A long drawn out Foreclosure affair comes to an end. An unlicensed vehicle go round.

A couple of ordinary Folks taking on the Bankrupt System on their own turf. Doing what has to be done while lawyers yip, growl and howl as others just talk about it.

Caution - Some rough language.



The Constitution is a Trust : http://www.The-Legacy.Info

So much media hype and disinfo about "soveriegns"

Do you have a government agent in your passenger seat, making you abide the speed limit? Do you have an IRS agent follow you to work, making sure you report your earnings? Do you have a policeman who guards your every move, preventing you from murdering your neighbor? No. In nearly all you do, you self govern. You are "sovereign." You behave as you do because of your internal moral compass.
There is a lot of crap out there, but if you really understand the concept, you realize that you are the only one qualified to run your life, the only one with the time... all that remains is this: Will you take on that responsibility with open eyes, or will you attempt to defer responsibility for your governance to someone else?

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

I have your answer

It is called divine law. When you learn what this means then you will have your answer.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...


Am I angry? YOU BET I AM. I channel my anger into positive outcomes instead of allowing a NATURAL and JUSTIFIED EMOTION to control me. If you allow your anger to drive you to hurt someone else you've demonstrated that you are no more intelligent than the average wild animal.

Am I violent or have violent tendencies?

No... and for two reasons:

1) I am intelligent enough to know that the FEDs are begging for violence so that they can clamp down on dissenters. The bulk of our military and also all the brainwashed LAME stream media watching SHEEPLEs will do whatever they're told via state run TV (CNN, FOX, MSNBC etc...) These people in the truth movement hoping for a civil war I believe are going to be sorely disappointed, not to mention dead if that were to happen. They have no grasp of the tech-advances our military and GovCorp have access to and will be pulling out all stops for the PLANNED full on military occupation of this country which will include FOREIGN troops who conveniently don't speak the language.

2) The name of this deadly game - is "he who shoots first looses." Jerry Kane and his son did the 'sovereign' movement a great dis-service by not just peacefully going along with the officers that day and then competently handling his beef in front of the judge. Cops have no idea how they are being used and are as clueless as the sheeple. Killing cops in no way helps the cause of liberty. All that does is give the system an excuse to clamp down on the people even more in a communist style dictatorship.

Ghandi was the MAN - Remaining non-violent to the point where a large enough minority awakens and simply starts saying "NO" is the answer. I don't mind telling you our "master plan" because there is no way you can stop it. There is already enough evidence out there that GovCorp has the monopoly on violence and the people are starting to see that there must be something to this Liberty movement if GovCorp is so anxious to silence dissenters and desperate enough to violate their Creator granted rights in doing so.

"The foundation for a police state has been put in place and we must mobilize resistance, before it's too late." ~ Ron Paul

Ideally in a propositional apparatus of volitional governance

Sovereignty is one of 6 principles comprising an ethic which is based upon individual rights
-agency (one's money for example)
-corporality (body)
-{sovereignty} (right of travel)
-philosophy (free thought)
-spirituality (freedom of religion)

uh, no actually

I am an attorney, and of course have an interest in the law. Real law, not fake law dreamed up by guys making you tube videos that never really studied law, but the real thing rather.

What I would like to know is if there are a lot of Paul supporters who believe this garbage. If so, that might influence me to not vote for him. Also, I would like to know why one believes this stuff. Not the usual vague references to passages of the Constitution which don't support sovereign ideology, but something from an authoritative source, which says their interpretation is correct.

I am sick of these types claiming they know the law, they don't and they act like jackasses when they try to use it. They get thrown in jail for contempt and lose their cases. They don't really want to know the law, they want to be seen as knowing the law, and though they have no legal education, they talk down to everyone who challenges them. There is never a reasoned response from one of them. It is all ad hominem attacks. Just like this one!

So put up or shut up.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

let me ask you...

A few question.

1). Is it true that one who ISSUES a license or a certificate OWNS that document and can REVOKE it at their whim?

2). If number one is not true, then who or whom OWNS the rights to them?

3). Are all mans rights inherent, given to us by our creator, or are they given to us by some other authority?

4). If 3 is not correct, how did this "authority" gain dominion over our rights, when was this established, and what is the remedy to bring us back to "inherent rights"?

It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.

They're Anarchists.

"they talk down to everyone who challenges them. There is never a reasoned response from one of them. It is all ad hominem attacks. Just like this one!"

They're Anarchist frauds. There is no reasonable way to defend Anarchism. They can call themselves whatever they want, sovereign citizens, Anarcho-Capitalists, or Libertarians but ultimately they are what they are. You just nailed it on the head, they're phonies. They're a repellent force attaching itself to the concept of liberty.

An Anarchist knows they serve no value to liberty. All they want is chaos and destruction. They don't know what threatens liberty and condemn the very concept of law and justice.

For the record, Anarchists are not Libertarians. They just need to pretend to be something other than what they are. They need a mob to hide in. People already know what an Anarchist is and recognize them as something to ignore and push to the margins.

Don't worry. They're on lock down now. Most of them are cowering in their peanut butter forts dreading the day there is no more Daily Paul.

I see, only government makes real laws?


Free includes debt-free!

Here I'm putting up:


Check episode 569 - VERY interested to get your comments. ENOUGH! We're not your slaves and you better start accepting that real soon...

Attorneys are the worst scum on this earth. While previously believing you were kept in the dark about this... it is now revealed that Attorneys by and large KNOW that due to our "promise to pay" monetary system - the house is PAID IN FULL with the promissory note. Then with a bit of legalese and bait-n-switch you trick homeowners into thinking someone loaned them money.

You are KNOWINGLY stealing peoples homes. You are a criminal sir - and a traitor to this country. All just to line your pockets with funny money.

Simply put: If I hand you a $20 bill - all I've done is PROMISED TO PAY you $20 - all I gave you was a piece of paper that in reality is worth 1/20th of a cent.

you're not putting up

YOu just linked to a web page for a radio show with multiple episodes. Instead, just provide proof. Be direct. Don't tell me to go fish.

Look, bottom line, I have researched it and I know the law and I know your theory is bunk, no matter how much YOU want to believe it is true. And no matter how much I would prefer it to be true, it isn't.

The rest of your post is alarming. As a fellow Paul supporter, I seriously question him as a candidate if someone as unhinged as you, with your accusations, supports him. I frankly am lost by your theory that because I am an attorney that means I am somehow in cahoots with wall street and am stealing people's homes. I've sued the big banks over their foreclosure practices, am writing a demand letter for same today, and you can't be more wrong.

You are a nut job and if Ron Paul and this forum knew what was good for him they would ban your crazy ass before you chase away more believers. He needs all the support he can get.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Enter "the Anarchist link".

Ad hominem attacks and Anarchist links... This is what they do.

They can't defend their political ideology. It's an offshoot of what you said; there's no reasonable way to defend Anarchism. Anarchism is indefensible, undesirable, and impossible. The only place it works is in an Anarchists fantasy world where injustice comes from government.

They're victims of causality and self aware frauds trying to get people to destroy the United States from within.

You can't possibly be THAT stupid.

"Check episode 569"

"YOu just linked to a web page for a radio show with multiple episodes."

This one is more foul than most.

"You can't possibly be THAT stupid."

NOBODY is as stupid as an Anarchist pretends to be, but they certainly think everybody else is. I can't even pretend to care what an Anarchist thinks. The only thing you can do is impose justice on them when they try to use force to get what they unjustly want.

This one; ConquerableWorld even floated the idea of a Constitutional amendment prohibiting the government from using force... He's not worth speaking to if you respect the law or pursue justice. Nobody knows that better than himself.

Ignore him and his "links". They're a waste of time. The only way an Anarchist can win a debate is by stopping the debate with insults or by linking you to a picture of their navel.

You raise excellent points.

I've research the whole sovereign citizen thing. I've found a lot of info and was able to come to no absolute resolution. I came to the conclusion I'd need a WAY better grasp of law and the legal system first. Just like everything in life, if it sounds too good...
What I completely disagree with you on is how you say you might not support RP because of people who support this belief in sovereign citizenship. For a very resonable, obviously educated guy with sound arguments, how could you possibly come to THAT conclusion. A lot of pot smokers and KKK people support RP too. I definately don't agree with their life styles and beliefs but it'd never stop me from supporting the only guy that gives us any hope of restoring a sound currency and our country's founding values. Maybe the whole soveriegn citizenship movement got going because not everybody can afford law school and understand the law as well as you do and are desperate to find a wat to recover their liberties lost due to decades of manipulations fed to us by media and the education system.

"I came to the conclusion I'd need a WAY better grasp of law"

BRAVO man - spoken like a TRUE NON-SHEEPLE. The wise man is the one quickest to admit he doesn't know and first requires more information before making an INTELLIGENT decision.

This will get you started:


Motivation for the post is discovered

This guy is an "Attorney At Law" - He is looking to dissuade you from learning the law by discrediting "sovereigns" who do not require the services of an "Attorney At Law" in a courtroom.

Sovereigns stand on their own two feet in court. An attorney's first loyalty is to the court and the private BAR association - not to their client. They tell you they will defend you and then turn around and plea bargain you by scaring you out of your right to a jury of your peers.

They protect statutory income streams which are their bread and butter. They keep the "War on Drugs" going. They are the principle reason this economy and country is in shambles. The average county court in this country SUCKS a few hundred thousand dollars PER DAY out of local communities and funnels it into the "City of London" corporation - AKA - the BANKSTERS.

Joη's picture

couldn't do a search?

had to ask?

"You underestimate the character of man." | "So be off now, and set about it." | Up for a game?

British Monarch

is a Sovereign that represents the Sovereignty of the British men and women. Is the Sovereign here?

Ie. A Brit's house is inviolable unless a law has been broken.


If you believe anything else your wrong

We are born sovereign individuals and that never changes no matter what the edict or proclaimation. Its a birth right.


sovereign citizens

love for life dot com dot au.the biggest sovereign citizen site in the world.draw your own conclusions.


You're angry with the responses.

You've been here, at least under this name for under 2 weeks and apparently you're unaware of how a touchy subject can produce anxiety with us. Evil forces are afoot and if you're sincere you would "step off" with your indignation. No good can come from this pursuit.



You can't get clean in a dirty bathtub.

thing about attacking

when you attack a poster without really being provoked, he might actually respond and point that out. Deal with it.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Why are you so obtuse?

You're really not a libertarian are you.



You can't get clean in a dirty bathtub.


you don't actually have any legal training or education, do you?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

No. I must defer to your profound wisdom.

Be my friend? Godfather?



You can't get clean in a dirty bathtub.

They're quite delusional in my opinion.

Well intended I think, but delusional.

To be clear, I'm not referring to the people who open carry and post youtube videos, or who make a point of refusing to show identification, etc - they're entirely sane and know the law. Rather, I'm referring to the people who talk about the "security of the person" and those somewhat more (shall we say) "exotic" concepts.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."