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Oklahoma GOP Claims That All Delegates Will Be Bound on All Votes

Oklahoma GOP Claims That All Delegates Will Be Bound on All Votes

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?369254

You will also certify that your delegate vote on selection for President of the United States of America at the Republican National Convention shall be cast as provided by Oklahoma Statute 26 O.S. 20-104(G) AND 20-105 .

26 O.S. 20-104(G) reads as follows: “Each delegate or alternate delegate to the national convention of his political party shall cast their vote on all ballots for the candidate who received this state's vote. If that candidate is for any reason no longer a candidate, the votes of the Oklahoma delegation shall be cast for any candidate of their choice.” 26 O.S. 20-105 also includes that, “Any vote cast by a delegate which is not in accordance with his delegate pledge shall be void.”

So what does this all mean? First, if you wish to be nominated for national delegate you must submit the Delegate Affidavit to the appropriate Convention Secretary, state or district where you intend to run. You must also agree that you will cast your vote according to the results of the Presidential Preference Primary, OKGOP Rules and State Law. You are bound by law to continue to cast your vote for the nominee as long as his name is on the ballot at the national convention. It may be 1 round of voting or it may be 5 but you cannot change your vote or the penalty will be invoked that your vote shall be void.

Now, my first intuition is that this law is unenforceable per the national GOP rules. However, I'm not 100% confident. Does this law mean to state that even in the case of a brokered/open convention, all Oklahoma delegates will still be bound on every vote? And is it enforceable?

http://www.okgop.com/becoming-a-national-delegate/




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National RNC doesn't recognize state rules

or law on bound delegates. So no delegate is actually bound because the RNC recognizes each delegate as a private entity capable of making their own decision.

Follow the Fairvote.org link:

http://www.dailypaul.com/229820/a-rogue-convention-how-gop-p...

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

they will take a page from the Nevada delegation

because the delegation will be led by a Ron Paul supporter they will, abstain.

There is nothing in the Oklahoma rules that makes a delegate vote or doesn't allow abstention.

Also they are bound to Santorum on the first vote, not Romney. After the first vote Santorum has to release his delegates because at that point he will no longer be a candidate that has "suspended" his campaign, after that they are free to vote for whoever.

Isn't this a non-issue, and all OK delegates are now free?

Santorum won our primary (gag...I tried)...and as I understand his 'suspended' campaign, he's no longer a candidate.

EDIT:
My bad, I wasn't thinking about the proportional delegates Romney got. n/m

All bound

Except the limited number (usually the state party chairman and one or two others) who are UNBOUND.

By making sure there is at least one unbound delegate in each state delegation the so called 'unit rule' does not come into play and there is no conflict between the RNC rules and the various state laws which attempt to bind delegates in some manner or other.

As noted by somebody who is a delegate in OK, you needed to sign a statement agreeing to uphold the state law. There seems to be a misconception that by being elected as a delegate that you can't be required by a state law to vote a certain way because it some how infringes on your 'voting rights.' It does not. You already voted in the primary or caucus. In a state that binds delegates you are acting as an agent of the other voters and have a legally mandated fiduciary obligation.

The good thing is that not every state has these laws and even in those that do, it only applies to candidates who are still standing for the nomination. So any delegates for Gingrich or Santorum or Huntsman (did he get anything out of NH?) can vote for RP if the language is the same as the above OK statute.

gedankenexperiment.dk views on finance, politics and science

Can the DA impanel a jury of 12 Romney supporters to convict?

Just asking, and thinking ahead. :)

There seems to be a

There seems to be a discussion as to what exactly “shall” means in-terms of “must.” We can infer by looking at Conceal Carry Licenses that “shall” means that a State must issue a CCL unless there is significant reason not to issue it; however, if there was a “must” issue State, then that would mean the the State cannot deny a license to anybody for any reason -they “must” issue.

So, if we apply this understanding of “shall” to the Oklahoma law, then each delegate and alternate delegate “must” vote for Romney on all ballots unless there is significant reason not to vote for Romney -say an investigation to his involvement in a 8 billion dollar ponzi scheme- maybe significant reason not to vote for him.

Also, even if one was not to question the law at all, RP supporters should still try to be delegates in every State possible, because they could still effect the RNC RULES and Platform which is also desired. For even when Dr. Paul gets nominated if the RNC RULES and Platform haven't been changed then we all will be fighting the same machine every single election for every office. RP supporters “must” take positions of power within the RNC to allow greater support for Liberty minded individuals running for office. It isn't fun or easy taking on the entire machine for each and every election, so to better support Liberty minded candidates and to transform the message outward into the populace it is necessary to take and hold the local, State, and National GOP offices and positions.

The delegates can unbind

The delegates can unbind themselves from the floor. Even if 2/3 of the mare bound for Romney, if they are Paul people they can vote to unbind themselves!

14 delegates bound to Romney at most

Santorum won 14 and the grinch won 13. It looks like 27 delegates up for grabs in Oklahoma!

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

So what does the GOP mean

So what does the GOP mean exactly about delegages being bound to a candidate no longer running?

The GOP is smoking pipe dreams again. You can't bind candidates to someone that isn't running. This is just the continued plan to claim a nominee with half the states not even voting yet. Ignore.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

The delegates acquired by

The delegates acquired by Santorum and Gingrich are still bound to Santorum and Gingrich until Santorum and Gingrich "release" their delegates at which point those delegates then become unbound; I don't think Rick or Newt will "release" their delegates until after every State has allocated the delegates -in the hopes that they will prevent RP from acquiring more delegates which would be able to vote for him on the first ballot. This is why RP supporters must become Romney, Santorum, and Gingrich delegates, to prevent Rick and Newt from selling their delegations to Romney so he could win the nomination.

So if the vote is void...

So if a Romney-bound delegate casts a vote for Paul, that takes a vote away from Romney?

If the vote is void... that means one less vote for Romney, despite the fact that Paul didn't receive a vote, right? Are they going to *pull* the vote out of you?

If anyone gets arrested, I'll wire you $100 toward your bail. :-)

Smart thinking!

They should do it.

That particular Delegates

That particular Delegates vote would simply be void and he would either be replaced by an alternate or the other correct votes would just count as proportionally more to make up the difference.

Here's my question

Doesn't the language "...the candidate who received this state's vote" contradict the district vote portion of the primary? As well as proportional candidates allocation?

It seem like this is saying all delegates are required to vote for... well "...the candidate who received this state's vote". Receiving the state's vote means they're talking about one person.

"If that candidate is for any reason no longer a candidate, the votes of the Oklahoma delegation shall be cast for any candidate of their choice." And considering that single candidate has suspended his campaign and officially endorsed Romney, doesn't that mean all 43 of Oklahoma's delegates are unbound?

Something tells me a

Something tells me a presidential pardon would be granted to any delegate that broke this law, you'd just have to wait until Paul is sworn in!

Is this a LAW or just a

Is this a LAW or just a rule.....RULES are made to be broken....the RNC is breaking RULE 11 so why can't we break this rule......become a delegate and vote RON PAUL.....who gives a CRAP what they think!!!

You will no longer be a member of the GOP

and maybe a fine. I'm not sure about the fine, but you can't ever be a delegate in the GOP again. So sad.

There are many more to take our place

growing pains

just says when you vote

you must vote for the candidate you are bound to, never says what happens when you don't vote at all.

I'm Curious

Does anyone know the legal difference between "shall" and "must"?

"Each delegate or alternate delegate to the national convention of his political party shall cast their vote on all ballots for the candidate who received this state's vote."

Would a bound Ronmey delegate be in trouble if he/she did not vote? On every ballot? This would give Romney one less vote each time.

However if shall and must are legally the same then they HAVE to vote each time.

Santorum and Gingric we ain't gotta worry about any more!!

No but..

...thanks to Clinton, we sure know what the definition of "it" is now, don't we. :)

(Sorry, a little comic relief in an otherwise very good discussion!)

i believe "must" implies

i believe "must" implies force

Actually in legal terms

"shall" means "must".

The bigger question is will you be removed by the OK GOP after the national convention. If so, who gives a crepe.

shall implies will, must

shall implies will, must implies obligation

MOOT!

This is now a moot point because Santorum is out. (or will be before the convention or when his incoming funds dry up, which ever occurs first).

Sooooo......OK delegates are free to fly!!!!

Steve Dickson's picture

I am an Oklahoma National Delegate

On Saturday the 31st, we swept ALL delegates and alternates in the 5th Congressional (1 of 5 CD's in Oklahoma, 3 delegates and 3 alternates). In order to run, you are required to sign an affidavit - and the affidavit cites section 104G and 105 of the law. It is notarized. If we go to Florida and ignore it, it is possible the document would be used to void our vote and they would then strip us of our delegate status.

Hard to do if we're the alternates as well, however.

That being said, we have committed to vote per the primary election allocation, which in our Congressional District is one for Romney, one for Santorum, and one for Gingrich. If anyone drops out or endorses another, Dr. Paul will get a delegate. If two drop out, he will get 2 delegates.

It will be an interesting convention, and I am looking forward to attending.

WELL!

According to this, Paul just gained one, and most likely TWO delegates per district! (hoping that Santorum officially drops like Gingrich did).

Abstain from voting.

.

It's a law?

The GOP is a club, not a governmental organization. Is it really a law or a GOP rule? GOP rules are not legally enforceable.

GOP rules are meant to be broken, as is evidenced by the GOP leaders' behavior.

Quit wringing hands....

The RNC is not a law enforcement agency for the State of Oklahoma.

The RNC rules also state
that the unit rule shall not apply
further that any delegate who believes their vote was recorded incorrectly can approach the Secretary or Parliamentarian to have their vote changed.

So, just get our people elected. Worry about Oklahoma state law enforcement later.

Hint: no court will enforce that law as the State would lose the case on 1st amendment grounds.