-59 votes

The Time is Now for a Third Party Run...

This is a message I sent out today to our members at rp2012.org & Grassroots for Liberty SuperPAC and it has gained a lot of support so I decided to share this with the Dailypaul. Remember that I encourage Ron Paul and Ron Paul delegates to do as much as possible to win the nomination at the GOP convention, but Ron Paul can and should announce a parallel third party candidacy as soon as possible. Please read on:

Greetings r3volutionaries! If you're already on board with the idea that Ron Paul should run a third party ticket and need no explanation please sign our petition at rp2012.org. Please spread the word and donate so we can get the word out as fast as possible! We want to purchase ads on the DP!

We've come a long way since Ron Paul first announced his candidacy in May of last year. Many of you continue to fight tirelessly to get Ron Paul the GOP nomination and that should be commended and continued. Yes there has been fraud. Yes there has been corruption. Yes there has been media bias. Yes the establishment and the powers that be are doing everything they can to stop Ron Paul from winning the GOP nomination. Many of you are now deflated about our prospects. Some believe we have insurmountable odds and others may be thinking about what few concessions we can get from the GOP. But have we been deceived? Have we deceived ourselves into thinking that these are our only options? (If you know where I'm going please sign our petition at: rp2012.org. Please spread the word and donate so we can get the word out as fast as possible! We want to purchase ads on the DP!)

Could we have always been in a position of power? Could we have always had the leverage against the powers that be and never realized it? Have we always had the GOP backed into a corner, but never bothered to look? Think about it. Ron Paul polls just as well against Obama as Romney does and has the most unwavering support out of any other candidate running! Most Ron Paul supporters will not vote for Romney no matter what happens. That means that Romney will likely lose to Obama anyways.. (In fact Gary Johnson already polls around 7% nationally and will take votes away from Romney) The only way the GOP will win is for them to select Ron Paul! If Ron Paul runs a third party ticket now, he will let the GOP know that he's serious about saving our country and that they are either going to get Ron Paul or Obama! (Please sign our petition at: rp2012.org. Please also spread the word and donate so we can get the word out as fast as possible! We want to purchase ads on the DP!)

The best part of this strategy is that even if the GOP doesn't choose Ron Paul as the nominee, he still has the best shot out of any third party candidate to win the Presidency ever! Ron Paul already polls around 18% in a three-way race.
(Please sign our petition at: rp2012.org. Please also spread the word and donate so we can get the word out as fast as possible! We want to purchase ads on the DP!)

Why now?
Ron Paul needs to get ballot access and it will practically be impossible if he waits until after the Republican convention in August. (Please sign our petition at: rp2012.org. Please also spread the word and donate so we can get the word out as fast as possible! We want to purchase ads on the DP! )

If you have any other questions please read our FAQ at: http://www.rp2012.org/3rd_party

We've reached a critical junction in the campaign, and Ron Paul's decision now will change our future. Your decision to encourage him may just be what he needs to make that decision. If you'd like Ron Paul to take a stand to ensure he goes all the way to November 6th, 2012 make it known! (Sign our petition at: rp2012.org. Please also spread the word and donate so we can get the word out as fast as possible! We want to purchase ads on the DP! )

How else can you help?

Spread the word:
If you have a facebook page, twitter , youtube account please spread the word! We are also looking for inspirational videos because this idea deserves inspiration...

We will purchase ads on the Dailypaul/ Ron Paul Forums and all the other liberty websites. We will also purchase facebook and google ads. Please donate today.

We need volunteers to make phone calls to our members and other Ron Paul supporters to spread the word!

Email us at: info@rp2012.org
Thanks Josh Tolley for the inspiration... and for those that haven't seen the video: http://youtu.be/IU2AvSwzuok

Excited about a third party run? We'll have a conference call tomorrow:

Wednesday, March 28th at 9pm ET.
Dial in #: 641-715-3200
Access Code: 1048840

Hope you can make it.

Let's do this and remember YOU can be the difference!!!

For liberty always. Jd.

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I never said he had sufficient coverage now.

I said he would have zero coverage outside of the GOP.

Clean out your brain and READ what people post for a change.

And yes, you have said the MSM would cover a 3rd party run, I believe the term was "in their face" that they couldn't ignore Paul. (I may have you confused with someone else, my apologies if that is so)

Also, you implied they would because you assert that Paul will have no problems getting into the debates and you use his current (really 2 month old now) polling showing him at 20% in a 3-way.

Sustaining this 20% long enough to qualify for the debates in September/October, requires media coverage all through that period. Without MSM coverage, polling numbers WILL fall. It's been proven over and over and over and over and over. History shows it. You are ignoring this.

Thus, with ZERO coverage (after the initial bump when announcing) Paul will FALL in his poll support and not get into the debates. The vast majority of voters will not now he is running at all, and the rest will think he dropped out.

Then you have the die-hards with a clue left. Most of them will not "waste" their vote and stick with the GOP or Obama.

The rest of us will either write him in, vote for him if he's on the ballot anyway, vote LP/CP/Green etc. or stay home.

Paul would be lucky to pull 1-2% in such a scenario.

And stop with the Romney love fest crap. You are making that up. You've been here 17 weeks, I've been here over 4 years. I think my time here sheds a little more credibility on my level of support for Paul.

Why are you trying to derail his present effort to win the GOP nomination?

Still refusing to answer the question I see?

"establishment rules" have nothing to do with anything.

There is a commission which controls the debates. This commission is staffed ONLY with Republicans and Democrats. As I've noted above, they have no intention, and they most likely WILL NOT allow Paul to participate in those debates if he is not a Republican nominee.

"establishment" in whatever vague form is irrelevant. We are talking about something concrete and absolute here. We are talking about an actual commission with actual people on it, and we know their names. Either they let a 3rd (or more) candidate(s) in the debates, or they don't. As it stands right now, they will not.

Second. Perot was successful in a unique situation. That's why I wrote that history lesson for you. I see you not only didn't read it, you didn't do any follow up research either before you spouted off.

Before 1988, the debates were hosted and run by the League of Women Voters. (They began sponsorship in 1976.)

In 1980, John Anderson was a Republican Congressman who did not get enough traction to defeat Reagan for the GOP nomination and so he launched an independent bid. Polls showed he did better amongst all voters than among just Republicans, and without even campaigning as a 3rd party/indy candidate, he showed 22% in the polls in a 3-way race. (sound familiar?)

After declaring, with the help of a MAJOR media consultant, Anderson polled as high as 26%. But over the summer, support faded to near 15%. (who's going to be Paul's major media consultant hmm..? No one, they all are against him)

The LWV agreed to including Anderson as he was polling 15% at the time of the first debate. However, Carter refused to participate. Anderson's numbers dropped below 15% in the following weeks and was excluded in the second and final debate. He ended up with 7% of the vote.

The media still gave him some coverage mind you. (they will not do the same for Paul)

By 1992, the CPD (Commission on Presidential Debates) had taken over. (the LWV gave up in 1987 because they said the 2 parties were creating a fraud upon the American people by using the debates as controlled campaign events rather than honest and open discussions)

Perot demanded to be let in because he met the same threshold Anderson had. Perot was polling 39% in the LEAD at one point in June. His support quickly faded to near 20% and he dropped out. (for personal reasons, and he also noted, he did not want the election going to the House) On October 1, he got back in, and convinced the CPD to let him in the debates because of his earlier higher numbers. (he was now polling near 8-9%)

I'm going to correct my earlier post here. Perot did NOT get into the debates the second time. He made the case for it based on his actual 1992 vote, but the other candidates - Dole and Clinton, refused to let him in.

He ended up with 8% of the vote in 1996.

Perot had a personal fortune behind him. Ron Paul does not. Perot could afford top Dem and GOP operatives. Paul cannot.

Paul is following a similar track to Anderson more than Perot at the moment. But Paul has something the others did not - he already ran 3rd party. And he knows the reality.

Perot got into the debates the first time because the nominations were wrapped up early and he provided news for the MSM to blabber about. Anderson did the same initially. (he was Reagan's biggest challenger, so by dropping out, Reagan secured the nomination)

Anderson failed to make even a second debate, and Perot failed to make the debates in 1996 even though he garnered more than 15% in an actual election - all because the other candidate(s) refused to participate with them in it.

Paul however will be trying to run 3rd party NOT in a vacuum, but amidst the GOP still duking it out over Santorum, Romney and Gingrich. There won't be a news vacuum for Paul to fill. Even if there was, the MSM wouldn't fill it with Paul, the GOP nominee would simply begin the general election campaign early. The MSM will NOT talk about any other candidates. AT ALL.

The GOP will not allow Romney to appear in a debate with anyone other than Obama. Obama likewise stands to be hurt by Paul since Paul is his biggest competitor for independent, Democrat, anti-war, pro liberty, anti-war on drugs voters. Don't expect any support from Obama for Paul to be included.

I've covered all this ten ways from Sunday now. You have no answer for it.

Paul will NOT be in the debates without some miracle strategy and LOTS of money, and he can't get around not being in the debates without lots of money, and by "lots" I mean HUNDREDS of millions of dollars if not 1/2 to 1 billion. Seriously. That's how much the other two are expected to spend each. Paul has to be in the same ball park to even have a snowball's chance.

As for the current polls showing Paul at 18-20% as a 3rd option, I've already covered that with the historical examples. (Anderson went from 22% to 26% then down to 8%, Perot went from 39% in the lead to 20% then down to 8%) And I've covered it by explaining how that support can easily be made to evaporate with a media blackout and then polling blackout that will keep him below the 15% threshold to be invited to the debates. (the MSM has already demonstrated this and they are doing it RIGHT NOW. There is ZERO reason to believe that suddenly they will have a change of hear if Ron announces a new bid outside the GOP)

The polls do not prove me wrong. History proves my analysis to be sound and the polls show nothing in variance with history. You've given us nothing but regurgitated repetition. You can't even bother yourself to answer direct questions or even posit a hint of a scenario of how Paul will get in the debates, or remain relevant without them. Not even a shred of an answer do you provide.

The pressure has already begun piling on for everyone but Romney to drop out. It's coming from all corners. I don't expect it to happen though.

Santorum is not discouraged by his performance thus far, quite the opposite. I'd say he is certainly out performing all expectations. And he is proof why the "Ron Paul is the choice of the anti-Romney crowd" idea is FALSE. If it were true, Paul would be winning states right now, rather than 3rd or 4th. (that idea was also proven false in Virginia where Paul got only 40% of the vote in a 2-way race)

Gingrich has vowed to go all the way, delegates or no delegates. He has no intentions so far in backing out. He really thinks when it comes down to it, Santorum will prevent an early Romney win, but that there is no way Santorum will have real support at the convention. He thinks he can appeal to delegates as a solution.

Little do either of them know who the vast majority of the delegates will actually want to nominate. (despite however they may be pledged)

And THAT is why Ron Paul will not drop out - because he has a real and solid chance to walk away with this thing. And, it is his only ticket into the debates. And without being in the debates, you aren't really a candidate in the eyes of the voters.

Look, if you don't have an answer to the "debate problem" - fine. Just say so, but please, enough with the distractions and diversions.

Why even be concerned about this?

Did you read the FAQ or thread?
1. We are first trying to get him to run a third party at the same time he runs the GOP ticket. You lose nothing.

2. It's either he declares a third party now or waits until after the convention and if he loses the GOP nomination, the campaign will effectively be done because he won't have time to get on the ballots.

3. The media attention he will get if he runs on a third party ticket will be the biggest story of the election! Forget the debate, the news will try to spin it as much as possible, but this will be the biggest story of the election because Ron Paul actually holds the cards and what he decides will be the biggest factor in the outcome of the election! Any news is good news.. especially compared to being blacked out as he has been and IS being right now in the GOP....

9-11 Media Fakery: Did anyone die on 9-11?


9-11 Actors:

Pysops.. media.. actors.. propagandists... disinfo agents.. fake videos.. fake photos

Correction on my assessment of#1

BigT is right, he can't do both - the GOP won't let him.

You have not one shred of proof or even an inkling you can point to that would even hint that the GOP would not kick Ron out of their nomination process in a NY second if he announced a 3rd/indy bid.

This is pure fantasy land now.

#1 and #2 are irrelevant without a solution to the debate


#3 - you are correct - only at first. That honeymoon will be short lived and then they will relegate him to Candidate Non-Grata again.

It won't be a big story for more than a week or two.

You have zilch to prove otherwise. I have the entire history of the MSM and specifically, their history covering Ron Paul and their history covering (or not) 3rd parties.

If you think he's being blacked out now, you ain't seen nothing yet...

NOT with the same people in charge of the campaign.

If ANYONE can cost Ron Paul the presidency, he is Jesse Benton or John Tate.

w/ gop, you can't get away from them as they come w/ the pkg.

w/ lp, you might be able to shove who you want into a dirtbag where they belong. it is too bad that most people don't care when such people cost paul votes and credibility.


The co-opted LP?


i didn't say co-opted lp.

lp is not as dirty or co-opted as gop.


Is there some algorithmic vote flipping going on here?

Lol. The thread was at +5 and now at -2. Oh wells. It's been getting a good response regardless.

9-11 Media Fakery: Did anyone die on 9-11?


9-11 Actors:

Pysops.. media.. actors.. propagandists... disinfo agents.. fake videos.. fake photos

NO you just need to convince more people

that this is the right thing to do... I and some others as it seems are not. If you convince the 7 people who voted down they might change their mind and vote you up which would give 7 less minus and 7 more + votes ;)

You fail to answer the basic questions

You base your assumptions in your FAQ on a article by Walter Block who says the following:
I don’t much care if this is legal or not. If it is, fine; if not, even the attempt to do so will garner benefits for Dr. Paul in particular, and for the spread of liberty in general."

Is it legal to run on 3 tickets?
How does it influence people who are already engaged in the GOP?
Are the partys involved OK with him running on 3 tickets? Did you backcheck with them?

You ask for donations in every paragraph but fail to answer the most basic questions.

You ask for donations to advertise on DP? If the public opinion of DP Grassroots is not with you on this topic why bother taking money from all other efforts to sway people on DP via advertisement?

I voted this down as another attempt to derail our efforts to take over the GOP until you answer the basic questions. Your efforts seem not very well thought out but rather hasty.

You know that a 3rd party run announced now will diminish his chances to take anything from the Tampa Convention to zero?

You think you can pressure the old GOP Establishment with a 3rd party run?

How do you think you can win the presidency without access to the presidential TV debate that has still a big impact?

Walter Block addresses all those questions you ask....

For those that haven't read it:

1. It's legal until someone shows me otherwise. He gave examples of how candidates in NY routinely run on the Republican and Conservative parties.

2. I think this strategy increases the chances he wins the GOP nomination and as I mentioned in the thread it is Ron Paul's ultimate leverage against the GOP.

3. It's up to the party to decide who its nominee is and all indications show the Libertarians would hand the nomination to Ron Paul on a golden platter.

Derail efforts? I think this may be the only shot we have to win the nomination for the GOP. The unfortunate reality is that while it is possible to win the nomination with the brokered convention the chances are very slim especially if we can't even use the leverage we have in our favor.

Do I think we can pressure the GOP establishment? Absolutely and it's amazing that we are in a position to and haven't used it. Ron Paul holds the ace in the hole. It's about time we use it instead of kowtowing to those in the establishment GOP that routinely commit fraud and even call us savages. If you want to remain servile to the GOP that may be fine in some instances, but please don't do it when our country is at stake. We can't afford to make these kinds of strategic mistakes.

9-11 Media Fakery: Did anyone die on 9-11?


9-11 Actors:

Pysops.. media.. actors.. propagandists... disinfo agents.. fake videos.. fake photos

No, he does not

1. That is not enough to base a 3rd party run on, especially not on 4 tickets. You should have checked this thoroughly before asking for donations that can be better used for the task at hand.
Going for 4 nominations will be major confusion among independents

2. Why is it his ultimate leverage? You dont explain it at all.
I think it lowers his chances even more cause the media will say that he essentially dropped out of the GOP race and runs now for a 3rd party that diminish his chances.
He wont get any votes by the undecided delegates or delegates whose Candidate dropped out.
The media narrative was from the start to push him into a 3rd party run to avoid what he is doing now..taking over the GOP.
The reason is: For the powers that be who are behind the FED and the media it doesnt matter at all if Romney or Obama win the presidency.
They will catch up to this narrative and say they knew it from the start Ron Paul wasnt serious to run for the presidency.

You assume exactly what how the GOP will react to a 3rd party run by Ron Paul?

He polls in a 3way race behind Romney and Obama
How do you plan to overcome this deficit when he has no access to the TV Debates?

Why dont you warn people that engaging in another party while you are a GOP delegate my disqualify you for the GOP convention?(as discussed thoroughly at DP)

Paul has zero leverage against the GOP because the GOP knows

that they have the stupidity of voters to leverage over Ron Paul.

Idiocy trumps at the polls every time.

The GOP and the Dems know well how to play the "wasted vote"/"lesser of two evils" card every time.

Paul will be extremely lucky to get 1-2%.

I think the biggest leverage we have against the old gop is

the vote fraud. In exposing this more and more they lose their credibility and we gain influence and power.



bigmikedude's picture

If you are a GOP RP delegate, you'd be taking a risk to sign any

kind of petition and add your email to a digital list...

Just a thought.

If for one second, you forget how hell bent the GOP has been on eliminating/disqualifying RP delegates, and actually believe for a second, that they wouldn't go as far to tie your name to an email address....

...you can imagine the rest yourself.

On information gathering promotions, I would use caution.

If you want to play this through to win, keep any information that can expose your identity to somebody else quiet.

It's always good to take precautions...

but I think many people misunderstand the whole process.. sure some establishment Republicans that don't like Ron Paul may do some background research and try to find ways to disqualify them, but that actually takes WORK. Very few even have the desire to care. The bigger problem is that establishment players won't care who the Ron Paul supporters are because they are going to recruit their own people to be on their own delegate slate and illegally get them in whether they have the votes or not. (And you know what? They probably have a hard time recruiting delegates that actually care enough to go to the national convention and probably need to bribe their people into going) If I was a delegate or potential delegate I'd focus more on getting a solid grasp of Robert's Rules of Order & your state Bylaws and honing your leadership skills so that you can influence an assembly to fight for what's right and not be taken advantage when the establishment GOP tries to illegally ram its slate through.

9-11 Media Fakery: Did anyone die on 9-11?


9-11 Actors:

Pysops.. media.. actors.. propagandists... disinfo agents.. fake videos.. fake photos

bigmikedude's picture

"takes work"

You don't think after IA, ME, NV, LA, MO, etc.., that the GOP isn't willing to, or doesn't have somebody handy that is willing to do that kind of work?

To believe that jd, is naive.

This is politics we're talking about. Remember Herman Cain?

It seems somebody was more than happy to do that work and hunt down those women, engage them and talk them into going public. Surely, you don't think that many women all coincidentally and simultaneously had an epiphany and opened up their personal lives to the vulture media and risk of Cain supporter wrath just for the hell of it do you?

And that was hard compared to comparing a couple email lists to highlight matching email addresses that can be done on a computer in roughly .02 seconds.

Fiscal responsibility

Why would you waste donor money on ads on this website?

+ Follow the Cooperative principle
+ Civility first
+ Constructive comments

It's a free market...

If you don't want to donate to this effort than don't. It's important to have ads that will be seen continually. There are 35,000 visitors that visit the Dailypaul everyday and even if a thread is frontpaged it only stays there for a day. This thread is not always going to be seen and at this point will most likely not be front paged because of who knows, let's just say algorithmic vote flipping.

The ads are important and we'll raise money for ads on other websites as well. The Dailypaul is a business that derives revenue from ads. Rather than expecting everything to be free all the time and having the Dailypaul need to fundraise itself, we should expect there to be a cost to provide a platform for us to spread the message that we should pay for. --btw Michael you should give me props for the plug--
Anyways, we will make a determination of how effective the ads are, but at this point the more the exposure we can get the better.

9-11 Media Fakery: Did anyone die on 9-11?


9-11 Actors:

Pysops.. media.. actors.. propagandists... disinfo agents.. fake videos.. fake photos

not logical

sounds more like a ponzi scheme then free market. Im not saying it is but it sounds like that especially when you ask in every paragraph for donations.

Daily Paul readers donate money so other daily paul members get informed about your initiative and then they may donate so you use the money again to inform more Daily paul readers who are asked to donate again for you to advertise again?
And all that for an initiative that has no backing by the campaign or Ron Paul(as it seems)?

And all this wasted money while the campaign needs every dollar to succeed at the task at hand? makes no sense.

If Daily Paul really stands behind it then this will gain traction on itself.


"when you ask in every paragraph for donations"

A cardinal rule of salesmanship: A.B.C. = "Always Be Closing"

"The problem is not those in power, the problem is right between your ears." ~Larken Rose


We are raising money for ads to put on websites such as the DP

to get more signers to the petition. It's simple and transparent. If you don't feel it's worth it and a waste of money then please don't donate. It's a free market and believe me if people don't feel something is worth their money they won't donate.

Backing by the campaign? No we are a SuperPAC and we don't coordinate with the campaign.

Money wasted? I think we've probably done one of the best jobs of using the money we raised to get Ron Paul votes and delegates.

Do you know where the campaign spends its money? Maybe you should start asking more questions about where they are spending money? You were not involved in 2007 & 2008 I take it? I heard someone in the campaign recently say they are hoarding cash for CA and TX? I'm in CA and I think that's very misleading. I don't expect them to spend much money at all in CA. It makes no strategic sense. Paul polls at around 10% and if we execute an outreach effort that's perfect we may get 15-30 out of 172 delegates. More than likely we will get none. Has Ron Paul won a single Congressional district primary yet? So how can you fundraise off false hope? There are no more caucus states remaining other than Indiana which has a hybrid system.

9-11 Media Fakery: Did anyone die on 9-11?


9-11 Actors:

Pysops.. media.. actors.. propagandists... disinfo agents.. fake videos.. fake photos


everyone can do what he wants with his money.

Im not questioning your intentions and NO I was not on board 08( :( )

Well I tell you what when he has no chance at all in CA running for the GOP then he has no chance at all winning on a 3rd party ticket anything out of CA. At least not more then romney/obama. Which means he has no chance at all for the presidency. Which means it makes no sense to spend a dime at all. But I dont think so...

I think that Ron Paul has everywhere greater potential then we actually get out of it in votes and delegates.
I think its up to us to inform as many people as possible with targeted information that doesnt need to cost much at all. The campaign cant no matter how much money they receive cover everything.

I hope the campaign is organizing speaking events and buys ads on TV and Radio to promote the message.
Do you imply that the campaign is doing wrong things with the money that is donated to them?

I am voting Paul

no matter what party or none party .... it's all about the message for me .... personally i would love to see him run Indie etc... but it appears he is big on the delegate dance right now and I support him any way the wind blows.

the 'delegate dance' is quite small

and it is like scratch my back, i'll scratch yours. and of course you will eventually feel and see romney-gop's cunningness that people won't fess up to.


I see both sides of this, however

It's not our call to make, its Ron Pauls decision and his alone. Just know this, I am with him either way.


Ultimately it is his decision, but I think we can definitely encourage him with the support we show. He is energized when he sees huge crowds that show up to his rallies. He is disappointed when he sees the lower than expected vote totals in the primaries and caucuses. It was Kent Snyder who influenced Ron Paul to run in 2007. Ron Paul didn't really want to do it from what I hear. In any case the support we show can make a big difference so I urge everyone to sign the petition. Thank you.

9-11 Media Fakery: Did anyone die on 9-11?


9-11 Actors:

Pysops.. media.. actors.. propagandists... disinfo agents.. fake videos.. fake photos