27 votes

The Establishments LAST weapon against Ron Paul

Well, we have had a nice run, we have raised millions in dollars, we have gotten the word out, we are taking over county conventions, we will very likely have the delegates necessary, to hand Paul the nomination, at the Tampa Convention, what is the one last line of defense of the establishment that we MUST DEFEAT to WIN? Do YOU REALLY want to win? Are YOU just in this to "make a statement", are you just here for your own "principles"? DO YOU WANT TO WIN THE PRESIDENCY FOR RON PAUL? One thing stands in our way! Will YOU do whatever is needed to defeat this one last obstacle of the establishment and TAKE WHAT WE HAVE FOUGHT FOR? It is amazing what has and is happening all over the country, winning is almost, unbelievably, within our grasp! Will we let it slip away?

Here's the deal, Romney is beginning to build a big lead, he is pulling ahead in polling and will likely win Maryland, DC, Illinois, and after he does the establishment will pound on Rick Santorum to drop out and endorse Mitt, if he does, Mitt will likely enter the National Convention with 1450+ BOUND DELEGATES! We MUST design and implement a strategy that blocks Mitt from getting 1144+ BOUND DELEGATES, that is the only thing that stands in our way! I don't care how we do it, but nobody is even thinking about this huge problem! Do we pull together and try to "surge" some candidate? We need to keep everybody in the race. We need a plan, as this is our last hurdle, making sure we get to a brokered convention!

I threw out the idea of trying to boost Frothy in WI and was shot down, does anyone know of another way to address this CRITICAL issue?

UPDATE: This is NOT about Newt and/or Rick dropping out and/or endorsing Mitt, this is about Mitt winning several states in a row, gaining momentum, and winning enough BOUND DELEGATES (1144+) to take the nomination in the first round of voting! This is what we must block for the window of opportunity to stay open for Paul and us!

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Good energy senders needed through clear minds and hearts.

Leave the "dirty" voting up to frothy's robo calling. Although not in want of Rmoney having delegates. Vote conviction always.

If, that's if, Santorum and Gingrich drop out; where do their voters go? Will they stay home, herd w/the rinos, or will they take a closer look at congressman, doctor, veteran, constitution champ, youth appeal...Ronald Earnest Paul? Do voters have a need to realize there is an option still? More voters, more delegates.

The giant may have awakened but, is it upright with full circulation to gain balance. Maybe a good massage could help!

IMO this is up to We The People; to spread the brush fires of liberty bigger and brighter, stay the course. Inform and invite to the Paul camp, especially, those that refuse a Rmoney vote. Fight the good fight.

If we get rid of the two Pseudocons....

Then there would have been a Romney and an anti-Romney. Newt & Rick needed to drop out much earlier and it would have been a two man race. These Pseudocons have muddied the dace with the corruption that surrounds them, their dishonesty, and the backers they have. The Teaocons would have had a tougher choice with Mittens opposed to the only Real Tea Party (tm) candidate that is running.

I like a better idea

Santorum People you all need to go vote for Ron Paul. Santorum voters - there's NO way in heck he's getting more then 30% of the popular vote in the general election! NO WAY possible - he loses to Obama - if you hate Obama that much - you should vote for the only candidate that can beat Obama- That's Ron Paul.

"Many of us agree that you and I have no right to use coercion against people who don't owe us anything. The same prohibition applies to groups of people who constitute the government. The reason is simple: unjust acts do not become just when legalized. "

I guess we need to focus on attacking Romney then.

Let's focus our grassroots energy on exposing him. Make videos, send chain emails, talk to people, make brochures.

A vote for Rick Santorum is NOT a vote for Ron Paul. It is a

vote for Rick Santorum. You've been drinking too much "wasted vote - lesser of two evils" Kool-aid.

So either you are sorely mistaken and confused, or you are a plant for Santorum.

You can try to explain it any convoluted way you want, but the clear fact is that you are trying to take votes from Paul and give them to Santorum.

You're right, this is their last weapon - "baffle them with bullshit."

I really didn't expect the audacity of the GOP to get to the point where they would think they could fool Ron Paul supporters into voting for another candidate for strategic reasons.

I guess I should learn not to be surprised.

Unless and until I hear it out of Ron Paul's mouth himself - with video - forget it pal.

If ever a time for Ron to be a salesman, now is the time

Someone posted a very good article here a while ago about Selling the Ron Paul ideals, not arguing about them. The official Ron Paul camp could use a lot of the same tactics. At this stage of the game "We" Paul supporters don't need any more reassurance, we need the message to get out to new voters. In my mind I see a need for one of the Ron Paul speeches to be as a teacher, not as a director. "Do you know why we need to be friendly with other countries?" something along those lines. Complacency will kill the entire effort. For us in the field, Don't give in or worry about any other problem. We each need to focus on getting people on board that were not on board before. That is the Grassroots goal and purpose. If people don't see it, then people don't see it. The vote cannot and should not be a forced twisted mess. Go out and win votes! Then by all means go win delegate, that is fun to watch ;P I talked to a Paul supporter the other day, but he seemed convinced we couldn't win. One thing I noticed, He didn't know how or intend to vote in our Oregon Primary!! This last problem is the most serious problem those of us at the base level have to solve. BTW, the Paul supporter is a small business owner late 30's like myself :) We are not all just out of college kids out here. Paul group would be good to recognize that as well. Liberty is a movement across all ages.

Is this what the Campaign wants us to do?

I would love to have Santorum drop out after Wisconsin which he suggested he would do if he doesn't win Wisconsin,and see Ron go one on one with Romney. There are a lot of primaries yet to go and a lot of people who hate Romney.




Romney is ahead by about 10% in Wisconsin over Santorum. Paul is polling at about 10%

We need to intervene...

The last thing we want to happen is for Santorum to pull out. We literally WANT and NEED Santorum to win Wisconsin because WI is a Winner Take All State. 42 delegates are at stake.


Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

How many states do we do this in and at what point

do we start voting for Romney so Santorum doesn't win enough delegates that Romney decides to drop out? I understand the theory but it goes against our principles. You know, if we could only get those 5200 Paul fans at the University rally to vote for Santorum, Paul could win by a landslide.


The Campaign wants, NO, MUST

The Campaign wants, NO, MUST HAVE a brokered convention! It is up to us to; 1) Become delegates, 2) Make step one count by having a brokered convention. We need a plan to ensure our delegates get a second round vote at the national convention. That means blocking Mittens from getting 1144+ bound delegates. Now it's our job to figure out how to accomplish this goal!

My Mistake, Sorry

I had heard Doug Weed say a month or so ago "and then there were two" hoping to take on Romney. I had no idea that now they don't believe they can win any primaries running only against Romney without Gingrich or Santorum in the race. The delegate strategy evidently only works in a brokered convention. I did not know that if someone dropped out they could assign all the delegates they collected to the candidate that they endorse. I don't suppose there is any hope that they might endorse Paul, is there? They both do seem to hate Romney.


I agreed with your original

I agreed with your original post, and agree even more now. Thanks for putting things into perspective for so many to see.

This is crystal clear. We need to prevent Romney from winning, period.

The GOP will bend over backasswards to prevent Ron Paul from winning a state. I think we all know that by now. The LAST thing they want us to do is vote for Santorum in the straw poll, and then go to the caucus as a Ron Paul delegate.

We need to swing the vote away from Romney. Vote for Santorum? YES, because it is literally a vote for Ron Paul and a brokered convention. It's a straw poll folks, most of us are NOT delegates.

Look at the polling numbers under, "republican nomination"


Oregon is just one example...it's close - and WE can be the difference.

Vote for the Beauty Queen in the name of Ron Paul at the straw poll, and then vote for Ron at the caucus as a delegate.


Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

Check the rules, but I very

Check the rules, but I very much doubt that Mr. Santorum can simply declare, "All my bound delegates are now bound to Mittens." I think they become free range delegates. :-)

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"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

UPDATE: This is NOT about

UPDATE: This is NOT about Newt and/or Rick dropping out and/or endorsing Mitt, this is about Mitt winning several states in a row, gaining momentum, and winning enough BOUND DELEGATES (1144+) to take the nomination in the first round of voting! This is what we must block for the window of opportunity to stay open for Paul and us!

I'm with you on the need for strategy

but disagree on what the establishment's "last weapon" is. Do you think political assassinations are completely a thing of the past? The closer we get, the more care Ron needs to take.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

What happens to unspent

What happens to unspent campaign cash anyway?

I forgot to mention...

There are already "Romney" and "Santorum" "delegates" who are in fact Ron Paul supporters who will be abstaining when the first vote is taken.

Well I hope we sail into a

Well I hope we sail into a brokered convention and this "problem" is never an issue, I am just the kind of guy that likes to have ammo ready just in case! This "abstaining" from voting is mainly a rumor, and hopefully it is possible, but it could be false and bound means BOUND. We should treat it that way until it is a proven fact. Plus, it will be much easier to sell to the public if it is reported going in to Tampa that Romney doesn't have enough delegates, rather than it be reported that Romney has won and then Paul people "steal" it from him.

I was originally for this idea

but I looked at the calendar and May doesn't look good at all for Romney: the voting starts of with Indiana on May 8th and then proceeds to N. Carolina, W. VA, Nebraska, Oregon, Arkansas, Kentucky and Texas (if that’s updated). The ONLY state that looks good for Romney out of that is Oregon.

He might wipe ALL of the states in April as it is the north-east + Wisconsin, the only ones that Romney might not win in that month is Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. If Romney fails to win PA he is in trouble come May.

I was all for this strat but now I am undecided as Romney is not as inevitable as I thought and the bad thing about this move is that Paul would look super weak and would really get pushed to drop out if he gets less than 10% in WI (assuming the other 5-10% of his support was going to Santorum).

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, an

Thanks for your comment, but

Thanks for your comment, but the post says "I threw out that idea". This post is to remind people of the absolute need of a BROKERED convention and to get people brainstorming on ways, if any, that we can assure our needed outcome. We should not put off planning for this contingency until Romney has 1140 bound delegates. Coming together as a group, Paul supporters have managed to do remarkable things, what can we do to ensure a brokered convention? We WILL have the numbers, the only thing stopping us, that I can see, is Romney locking it up before Tampa.


I don't know how likely a brokered convention is - my gut feeling is it's a small one - but regardless I'm going to continue supporting Ron, win or lose. I've considered voting for Santorum for the strategy of it as well, but I just can't bring myself to do that.

The more important thing, I think, is for the movement to continue. People need to wake up and understand the Liberty message and how messed up our government is. The best way to do that, I believe, is for them to experience it. And to do that, we need to run for and win elections at the local and state levels, which I think would be easy for us to do. Certainly easier than going straight for the top spot.

Continue working for getting Ron Paul elected, but in your meetup groups and other organizations also be talking about what can be done at the local level. Many smaller positions would be actually easy to fill with liberty loving individuals with the organization we already have. That would be my advice.


Become Ron Paul delegates wherever you can. Wherever you can't, become stealth Romney delegates and abstain from voting at the convention. Every state is different as to whether delegates are bound or unbound. Furthermore, every state is different when it comes to how many rounds of voting it will take for bound delegates to become free to vote their conscience. Some states may even force their delegates to be bound throughout the entirety of the voting. It seems like the penalty for voting against who you are bound for will be the void of your vote. I have not seen any information regarding penalties for abstaining from voting. Thus, we must become stealth delegates and abstain our way to victory. Even if your state won't allow you to become unbound, being there to abstain still takes a vote away from Romney. In my opinion, stealth delegates and abstaining is our best chance to win this nomination at the convention.

"Loyalty's worth more than wealth...in a world where...people be all for self."

That makes the most sense to me

Being a stealth delegate for Romney seems easier than getting the Ron Paul people to show up to win delegates. Since we know the system is heavily biased toward Romney, it shouldnt be that hard to rack up a ton of stealths. I think this is an exellent idea and needs serious consideration.

The Establishments last weapon

against Ron Paul is the MSM...

When Fascism goes to sleep, it checks under the bed for Ron Paul!

I know this sounds crazy here on DP

but what if the Ron Paul campaign actually starts acting like they are running against Romney instead of kissing his you know what all of the time.

Well thought out strategy Deet-er

First things first. It looks like Ron Paul has his
Five State minimum of delegate plurality to qualify to be on the floor at convention.

These seven states are looking like delegate winners for Paul;

1. Maine
2. Missouri
3. Washington
4. Alaska
5. Colorado
6. Minnesota
7. Iowa

Your argument is very convincing... almost.

I could make a similar argument for Ron Paul having around 500 delegates currently and we're just at the half-way mark with some of the biggest states coming up.

The fact of the matter is the delegates have not yet truly been counted.

The polls and straw polls have very little impact with regard on Ron Paul's delegate count.

So I think it may be... I repeat may be, too early to impelement your anti-Romney strategy.

But I'm glad to see that there is one. Don't go away and forget about it. Keep us informed as we move forward.

Ben Swann (Reality Check) Interview with Josh Tolley on Santorum Delegate Count, and Paul Gaining

What a difference a new title makes :)

+11 is definitely an improvement!!!

I would wait before doing Santorum any favors, obviously we can't surge Newt at this point.

...We have surged ourselves to a few victories in the primaries only to have them handed over to romney. See Election Fraud. Not sure if there is anything we could do to guarantee a win...for anyone. Check out those algorithms.

They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds. -mexican proverb

If my understanding is correct....

The delegates are not "bound" in that the MUST vote for which ever candidate wins the "beauty contest", as they can ABSTAIN in the first vote. Then, when there is no clear winner, they may vote their "conscience" in the later votes so it is imperative to get as many "Ron Paul friendly" delegates elected to the national convention as possible.

QUIT looking at Faux Noise and the MSM delegate counts....they are lying! The beauty contests are merely straw polls and, really, mean nothing. Concentrate on becoming a state and national delegate instead! Don't let the media pick ANOTHER president! They do a TERRIBLE job!!

Give us clear vision, that we may know where to stand and what to stand for - because unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything.
~ Peter Marshall, US Senate Chaplain 1947


Does anyone know if there is strategy for the superdelegates?

Thank you, Deet.

You are so right about that. We are trying very hard in NJ to get signatures for our delegates but, WE NEED HELP and we only have today and tomorrow to get it done. New Jersey will be rough because it is heavily Democrat and the Republicans here tend to be neocons. We have made some progress with both groups and have gotten many to support Ron Paul. Dems cannot sign the delegates' petitions here. From what I saw when helping to validate the signatures last night, many NJ Democrats did sign and we had to toss those signatures out!

Please, everyone reading this, click on my thread and bump it up to keep active today, so that every Republican and Unaffiliated DPer and lurker in NJ sees it and does his or her part to sign the delegates' petitions in the districts we still need to get by tomorrow.

Many, many thanks.


Oh, and please consider donating a couple of dollars to the campaing fund here in NJ, if you can. We really do need help and I doubt the offical campaign will do much at all here. Many New Jersey people are hurting and most of them don't know yet that Ron Paul has the solutions they want.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox