101 votes

What to do if local convention rules are violated, Chairman, Police...

First...video, video, video.

Second- If the Chair says there will be no video recording, IMMEDIATELY stand and say loudly Mr./ Madame Chairman, Point of Order, say that rule has not been voted on, and commence with whatever motion to the subject you wish...replace the Chair, allow video, etc. Someone must second you, then it goes to vote. DO NOT LET THEM DEVIATE FROM THE RULES.

If you are in a public area, do NOT let the police arrest anyone until doing this first- Tell the police officers they are breaking the law and to not arrest whatever individual, tell the suspected individual to tell the police he/she is doing nothing wrong, has a right to be there, and will not cooperate with illegal orders given by police. Have your cell phone in hand and be prepared to call the Sheriff, State Republican Party, and ACLU.

People...remember the Ps. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. Study the Rules of Order, remain calm but firm, stand your ground and do not give an inch without making them earn it. Outlast them, outsmart them, win.


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If you're prepared to document rule-breaking, or anything else

that should be documented, work w/ a buddy. If you have a video camera, camera or even a cell phone, 1 of you decide who is going to take the picture/ videotape & have the buddy right next to you so, in case the device is confiscated or someone says you can't take a picture of that, I need your camera/ you'll have to give your camera to me, hand it off to your buddy beside you who doesn't have the authority to give your property to anyone else. That is the response, its not mine, I can't give it to you. If you feel it best to leave the premises if someone is trying to get your equipment from you, do so.

For some reason, we're expected to know every law that exists in America & in our state so we don't break it. We're supposed to know this when we're 18. There's no litmus test for them, as in the 10 commandments or rhyme or reason. C.U.R.E.

There are a lot of good ideas on

this post but I'm still a little unsure of what the proper process is for both following RR and dealing with a rogue Chair that won't recognize us when we stand to make a motion, point of order, or point of information. My understanding is that we technically have to be recognized before we can state our motion, PoO, or PoI and that any steps towards replacing a chair has to work through the chair and his place at the microphone. But if he conpletely ignores this process then it's difficult to move forward. Maybe this is where careful/skillful use of a megaphone would come into play.

Some of the ideas suggested:

- inform the police ahead of time (possibly hire off duty cops like what was done in Colorado)
- requiring that the Chair justify his actions by citing the bylaws
- possibly replacing the Chair
- use of a megaphone(though we have to be careful about only using this at the right time and with restraint. We can't just have anyone pulling out a megaphone)
- grassroots maintaining a semblance of order while demanding the rules be followed. So cops don't have a pretext for removing people or shutting down the event.
- Use of a recording device
- exploiting the GOP's desire to maintain the perception that the process is being conducted fairly in accordance with the rules

It also seems that we need to work out a fair, practical process without turning our actions into just making a statement of "standing on our principles"(although there may be a place for that).

Here are some other good ideas which 4Constitution suggested:

How to avoid a potential AMBUSH! Posted by 4Constitution

The Right Equipment

If the temporary chair ignores the rules or does anything untoward, REPLACE HIM IMMEDIATELY BEFORE ANY OTHER ORDER OF BUSINESS. If the temporary chair tries to enforce imaginary rules, they are just that imaginary, SO IGNORE THEM and proceed with replacing the chair. People will listen to an illegitimate chairman because he's got a microphone and louder than you = more authority. So if the temporary chair refuses to relinquish "the microphone of authority" someone should BE PREPARED WITH A MEGAPHONE or bullhorn in their bag. A megaphone would also be useful if you need to reconvene or organize in a chaotic emergency situation. Give your megaphone to the new chairperson, have them stand on their seat and ignore the guy with the microphone as you go about business.

If the cops try to arrest you illegally, comply, submit and keep repeating the phrase "this is a violation of my rights, this is false arrest, there will be civil consequences for all of you. I want a lawyer!" however do not resist arrest. Let them arrest you then call an ambulance chaser and the aclu when you get out and sue them blind.

The Soundtrack of liberty ~ www.myspace.com/CrowfeatheRproject

"Death before surrender" R3VOLUTION 2012

Commend fighting spirit but...

If the chair says no video, continue to video while requesting the chair cite the bylaw section that backs up his/her assertion. Don't say "the rule hasn't been voted on." That assumes such a rule may exist. Language is powerful; don't let it gain even a foothold against you by being co-opted into that sort of language. Say, "There is not such rule. You've made it up.

Of course, the chair will say some nonsense because pretty much no county/district bylaws outlaw recording for public meetings.

We can counter with: The Republican party has called repeatedly for transparency. We believe in transparency because we believe in our cause and because we understand that only the duplicitous desire to hide their actions The bylaws of this county/district are in full compliance with the Party's desire to provide an open process of honest examination. Obviously, banning recording flies in the face of our stated purpose. The chair's statement, apart from being outside the laws of this body, flies in the face of the stated principles of this party and smacks of shame.

With no motion on the table to amend our county/district's bylaws, it is inappropriate and subversive to Republican values to give the slightest attention to such a statement. I hereby call on the chair to remove his/her fallacious assertion at will so that his/her name does not become associated with principles outside Republican values of transparency and open process."

Are you kidding?

You wrote the following: "Have your cell phone in hand and be prepared to call the Sheriff, State Republican Party, and ACLU."

Really? Call the State republican party! If the rules and/or the law are being broken, it is probably being ordered by the State republican party! I would agree to call the Sheriff… often, it is the person who first reports a problem to the police that has priority. The ACLU? I don't know, maybe. But not the republican party. That would be like calling hell and asking to speak to the devil about something bad happening.

Larry in North Carolina
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to not support Ron Paul!

The state republican party

The state republican party officials may want Ron to lose. But they also want the process to appear to be legitimate. It's one thing to be corrupt. It's another to LOOK corrupt. The latter loses the general election and thus the power that would accrue from having favors owed by the officeholders.

Local officials are often only local because they're not good enough at appearing honest to move up. If a local official is riding roughshod over the process in a way that gets them bad press, the state party will want this stopped.

And then there are officials who'd rather lose honestly than win dishonestly. And then there are officials who are really dedicated to the system, not to the faction. And then there are Paul sympathizers and supporters.

So don't write off the state party. (Look what they're doing in MO...)

= = = =
"Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job."

That means: For each job "created or saved" about five were destroyed.

you call the ACLU when

you call the ACLU when someone is being illegally arrested. Don't be an ass.



Dokes simply ignored calls of "Point of Order," "Division," and so forth. Then when someone tried to re-convene the caucus, as the rules call for, Dokes brought a trespassing charge against him. At that point it was up to the cops.

Undoubtedly laws vary by state, but I would be very surprised if any state did not have laws against running over a caucus or a primary election. Remember, the parties take part in the process only by virtue of state laws that allow them to. Under the US Constitution, the states (legislatures) appoint electors to the electoral college. Being allowed a say in how those electors are selected is a privilege granted to the parties by the state. The state has every right to regulate the process.

Trespass laws probably vary some state by state also.

What I am getting around to is that what one might say to the cops either while shenanigans are going down or preemptively is something best to be figured out beforehand by a lawyer who is licensed in the state where the caucus is held.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

RP's Hire Off Duty Police?

Is it recommended that the RP Delegates hire off duty police to help keep the peace, and prevent a RP delegate from being illegally arrested or falsely accused?


that shouldn't be needed. If you know the law, then point it out to the police if someone tries to illegally involve them. Know the trespass laws and event coordinators and building owners if you are that concerned. If people are illegally arrested, sue.


The 7 P's

Prior Proper Preparation Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.

I always found the 7 Ps...

always found the 7Ps somewhat redundant so I shortened it for grammatical efficiency. Assess, Improve, Maintain. Werd


My understanding is you: -

My understanding is you:
- Start with the point of order.
- If the chairman rules that the camera ban stands, IMMEDIATELY (before other business is transacted) appeal the ruling of the chair. (Requires a second. Majority required to override, chair wins ties.
- If the chair refuses to recognize and proceed with the appeal, it's proper cause for removal (for egregious and willful violation of Roberts Rules, which he is supposed to enforce). Then you "move the removal of the chair". (Also requires a second and takes precedence.)

Perhaps, since the chair is temporary at this point, it might be wise to immediately move the selection of the permanent chair.

I'm NOT a parliamentarian. Do we have one who can check and correct and/or expand on this?

= = = =

I LIKE calling the sheriff. (Doesn't the sheriff usually outrank the local police?)

= = = =
"Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job."

That means: For each job "created or saved" about five were destroyed.

IN IA we had a Parliatarian who knew Roberts Rules up front.

At the Polk county convention, sitting up front with the chairperson. Also, we had a conservative talk show host up front who opened the convention with a short speech. He happens to be a Liberterian. The Parliatarian knows Roberts Rules.

What do you do when...

What do you do when you follow the rules and they just up and leave while ignoring you? We are still fighting the establishment political machine (local District, and State). The state has set forth a "path to rectify the situation" which will allow the cheated convention slate to go to the state convention before a remedy is rendered. We need help in obtaining a lawyer who is able to help our cause.


Check your state party's rules

Check your state party's rules (and state-level documents for the caucus organizers and attendees.) Some states have a procedure for that. (Such meeting organizer misbehavior has been known to happen when, as now, a faction that had been in power fears being displaced. So it's taken into account.)

In the case of St. Charles County, MO the official procedure for a chairman (or temporary chairman) walkout is for the caucus to treat it as a vacant chair, reorganize itself, and select a new chair.

That's why Dokes set the stage with bogus advance claims to the police that the caucus might be disrupted and then made the trespass accusation that got Brent Stafford arrested when he was doing exactly what the rules prescribed.

= = = =
"Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job."

That means: For each job "created or saved" about five were destroyed.

Wouldn't hurt to alert police in advance what may happen & why.

We've seen that party leaders have told police to expect a disturbance and that they might need to control the crowd. Either the cops don't understand they're helping the wrong folks, or they're in on the fix.

RP activists' notifying police in advance will serve to mitigate either of those possibilities. Honest cops will be alert and know when the old guard is up to no good. Flunky cops will have to deal with the fact that they have received constructive notice regarding the legal rights of RP delegates, and will face legal action if they violate those rights.

Very good idea

Informing the police will help you ALOT if it comes down to something like what occured in Missouri.

As to the OP, he's right, stand your ground and don't give an inch when it comes to the rules. That's our best protection and is how we're going to win delegates.