-5 votes

Cry from the Heart : on the importance of the 14th Amendment to defend Life, Liberty, and Peace in the United States of America

My Dear American friends,

I now have this overwhelming feeling that for the stakes of preserving Liberty and Peace in the near future in this country, you/we the People, SHALL NOT overlook the CRUCIAL IMPORTANCE of understanding, and defending the best we can the full extent of application of the 14th Amendment.

This Amendment, and OUR DEFENSE OF ITS TEXT AND SPIRIT, may be our last protective resort against a Federal Government possibly going mad and ALREADY threatening LIFE AND LIBERTY OF ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS on the US soil.

Below, I am highlighting the passages that I feel will be of the MOST IMPORTANT relevance:

(Reread carefully if not already familiar enough)

"Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4.

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

This 14th Amendment, of course, largely speaks for itself, but also within and throughout the entire text of the Constitution.

But the point I am trying to make here, is that I feel we/you, the People, MUST DEFEND with all our heart, sweat, and tears, the notion that the passages highlighted above CAN AND SHOULD, FOR AND BY the People, be understood AS MUCH ABOUT INSURRECTION OR REBELLION COMING FROM POSSIBLE DOMESTIC ENEMIES, INCLUDING SOME IN OFFICE, as about "conventional" foreign enemies, that the former (domestic enemies possibly in office) would like the People to be EXCLUSIVELY focusing on.

Please spread this word if it speaks to you.

PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW OR ACCEPT THAT TRAITORS MANGLE, MUTILATE THE INTERPRETATION OF THIS WISE, PRUDENT AMENDMENT

To read more about the 14th Amendment :

http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt14toc_user.html

Also, Ron Paul, on how the 9th, 10th, and 14th have been used by some "judges who see themselves as social activists, [and whose] vision of justice is more important than the letter of the laws they are sworn to interpret and uphold" :

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul120.html

(Ron Paul, 2003)

For OUR Life, Liberty, and Peace,

EDIT

I've eventually come to agree that the People might (or will likely) want to repeal this 14th Amendment one day, probably soon after this Restoration Revolution we're engaged into completes. Till then, I believe this same amendment, esp. section 3, can still be a useful "Judoka" helper for the defense of the Constitution FOR AND BY the People, in an interpretation that includes this amendment.

See : http://www.dailypaul.com/225042/cry-from-the-heart-on-the-im...
(Thanks to Republicae)

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sharkhearted's picture

Cry from the heart: REPEAL the 14th Amendment

http://www.dirtyunclesam.com/

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Republicae's picture

I'm with you...while we are

I'm with you...while we are at it the 16th, 17th amendments should be repealled, as well as the revocation of the Federal Reserve Act and every single Executive Order and Signing Statement.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

sharkhearted's picture

Yes SIR!

And while we are at that....repeal the other legion unconstitutional acts passed by Congress over the years that are still on the books and are poison to Lady Liberty.

Your extended posts are most informative. I do hope you will publish and maybe feature some posts on here.

Thank you!

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

You can click on Republicae's

You can click on Republicae's profile and find links to enough of his writing to keep you busy from now till the National Convention...he's an excellent writer too, with VAST understanding of the Civil War-14th Amendment era, and their consequences.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

sharkhearted's picture

Just posted a comment on your remarks on this thread as well.

I thought they too were brilliant.

Copied and saved for reference for a later date.

I really get humbled at all the intellectual prowess I find on here.

RON PAUL 2012!

~Chris
Norfolk, Va

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Cyril's picture

I wish you very good luck with that

... Especially if you insist on ignoring what Ron Paul wrote in 2003 about the abuse of the three amendments altogether: 9th, 10th, and 14th.

Ron Paul was denouncing the abuse of the English text interpretation of the Constitution.

He NEVER blamed the 14th ALONE, while he advocated consistently and for long to repeal the 16th, which even in the simplest interpretation is now known AS A DEMONSTRATED DISASTROUS idea.

Sincerely,

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Repeal the 14th Amendment

#1 Created a Federal Citizen and placed them under the jurisdiction of the United States.

#2 Defined the Federal Citizen

#3 Created criminals out of those that defended their states during invasion.

#4 Put the Federal Citizen on the hook for the cost of Federal invasions and other public works projects..

What's the good part of this travesty?

Repeal the 14th Amendment

Free includes debt-free!

Cyril's picture

Oh please, NO.

For that's actually one of the next moves we can expect from the Obamanesque, smooth and deceptive, stealth, dictatorship.

HOW MUCH you'd want to bet ?

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Worst Amendment Ever!

It marked the end of the Republic, and facilitated the evil imposter which has its iron grip on us today.

And the poster below is correct about it never being lawfully ratified. None of the so-called "reconstruction amendments" were lawful, because the southern states were under military occupation with rubber-stamp state governments inhabited by the federal military occupiers.

The 14th Amendment was the death of the Republic.

I would work tirelessly for its repeal, as would most historians who are Americans, and not corporate statists.

I have often called for the repeal of the 14th right here on the DP. Numerous times.

Cyril's picture

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, again

Cf. my reply comment to CAH's, above

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

I'm afraid that you

don't have the foggiest idea what you are talking about.

You need to study.

Cyril's picture

I studied a bit, yes...

The Constitution.

Especially focusing from its preamble down to the 16th, BETRAYAL amendment.

Tell me what is incorrect or untrue in my comment reply to DIDYOUKNOW below.

I am afraid that YOU are being abused by those who had made you think that the Government CAN BE ABOVE the Constitution and the People, while I am trying hard to let you know that you can still find good defense in the Constitution, your foundational text:

YOU, the People.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Unfortunately,

the 14th Amendment obliterated that, and put the people under the control of the federal gov't.
That was the end of "we the people".
How?
Because it amended the Constitution to be that way. So the Constitution was not the same thing anymore.

We all then came under the jurisdiction of the federal gov't, or the "federal plantation" as some like to put it.
No longer a free people.
That's what the 14th gave us.
The end of the Republic.

And we're still all slaves because of it.

Cyril's picture

Are you saying a single amendment can obliterate several others

... and simultaneously ?

Don't you think it is easier to think that:

an amendment may have either good or less good intentions, but either way, what is MUCH MORE THREATENING to the Constitution AS A WHOLE is a malicious MISINTERPRETATION of it by those WHO TOOK OATH to protect this faithful interpretation and respect ?

I am baffled by the gap between our understandings of the issues on the defense of Constitution.

I guess I am going to drop and leave it here, then.

I provided all the relevant links and I never spoke with authority on why this 14th amendment is or is not be repealed.

Instead, I provided relevant links on that it is not so much the content of 14th amendment being at stake, than it is about the TREATMENT performed over the Constitution as a whole. Malicious people in office abusing this or that amendment's text, STEALING ITS LETTER AND SPIRIT from the People.

While there are, indeed, at least one amendment with a demonstratively evil intent : the 16th, that the righteous would DEFINITELY want to repeal, in the light of today's world.

I CAN make the distinction between the letter and the spirit of a text.

And I know BOTH are needed before giving any judgment.

The spirit comes from those honest enough to remain faithful to the meaning of words, and not confuse them on purpose (or invent unwritten words).

Finally, I know it is foolish too blame ANY letter, potentially good, when the spirit isn't around any longer.

Repeal the 16th amendment, YES.

Maintain and defend the 14th amendment that is being STOLEN ON ITS INTENT from YOU.

Sincerely,

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Nah...the death of the

Nah...the death of the republic began when the plotters in Philadelphia illegally overthrew the Articles of Confederation. Their actions make the ratification process of the 14th (and don't forget 15th!) amendment look like a church choir by comparison.

The ratification of the

The ratification of the Constitution, though accomplished in stark violation of the law in effect at that time, was not accomplished by military force as was the case with the 14th Amendment.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Technically true but the

Technically true but the Whiskey Rebels, who dared to resist the first federal tax, might disagree with the substance of your comments.

Far more people died, were

Far more people died, were tortured and lost their property during the Reconstruction Acts/Ratification of the 14th Amendment than did occur during the Whiskey Rebellions.

These two instances are the same thing though. In 1789 the united States were Reconstructed under a new, but unlawfully imposed, government. And then again under a Military Coup in 1867 the united States were again Reconstructed under a new, but unlawfully imposed, government.

People are so adamant about "following the Constitution (law)", and these type of people FREQUENTLY refer back to the "founders". Yet the USA has never really followed the Law, one is hard pressed to find a period when the law was truthfully followed in these lands.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Cyril's picture

Are you implying that it is too late already

... for the People, to demand the lawmakers truthfully follow the Constitution ?

Isn't it what this revolution is about ?

If it is not, why stop at calling to repeal the 14th amendment and not call to repeal several others as well, in the first 10 of them, if you can't even assume the whole constitution's English text meaning IS WORTH TO BE, AND MUST BE respected in this country's future, with or without the 14th, or any other n-th amendment ?

Why surrender on a text on the pretext it has been abused and the assumption it will be so again ?

Isn't it the point for the People to get its Constitution and country back ?

What was the point made by Dr. Ron Paul in 2003 on the 3 of them: 9th, 10th, and 14th, where the 14th was only one bit of the lever for the abuse (ignoring the 9th and 10th, being the other two bits put at work) ?

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril's picture

Bump

For I feel it is critical enough.

"Let it not be said that we did nothing."

To which I'll add:

"Let it not be REMEMBERED that we SAID nothing."

For Liberty,

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

One tiny problem!

First, the 14th Amendment was never properly ratified and is therefore null & void, there's more than enough proof of this fact so don't bother arguing about it. Secondly, if you use your reasoning skills, you know the ones they never taught you in a government school, you would know by reading the Bill of Rights that We the people are the authors of the state & federal governments NOT! the subjects of the jurisdiction thereof. The fact that the criminals parading as our government are nothing more than corporate lackeys operating within their corporate post 1870 constitution. Oh! and why is there a 13th Amendment on the record in many states document archives that bares absolutely no resemblance to the fraudulent amendment that occupies our current constitution? It's amazing what people can get away with in the midst of a national crisis. the post 1870 government is very corporate and oh so fascist, wake up people and stop living the lie!

Well....if true, the 15th

Well....if true, the 15th Amendment, which was a companion to the 14th, was never properly ratified either. To be consistent you'd need to launch a campaign against it too.....that's if you are prepared for a public relations disaster.

Speaking of fraudulent amendments an even stronger case that that term applies in spades to the Constitution in 1787. Instead of following the unanimous rule required by the Articles of Confederation they arbitrarily adopted a nine state rule and set up poorly attended manipulated rigged state conventions to complete the process.

"Well....if true, the 15th

"Well....if true, the 15th Amendment, which was a companion to the 14th, was never properly ratified either."

This is not true of the 15th Amendment. Under the 14th Amendment several, 10, States were removed as "lawful" States. The 14th Amendment was submitted to the States for ratification 2 times. The first time it failed. Upon its failure, 10 States were declared to be unlawful States, their Representatives unseated, and the Reconstruction Acts were passed without those 10 States being represented. The Reconstruction Acts (3) were Acts for Military Occupation of those 10 States and those States were to remain occupied until they ratified the 14th Amendment. In several cases the Amendment was ratified by the Military occupiers, NOT the State's de jure legislatures. ALL 10 of those States had previously choose to reject the 14th Amendment prior to the coercive Military Occupation.

The 13th Amendment is the one that would be companion and never properly ratified, as President Johnson duly noted in one of his veto's of the Reconstruction Acts. President Johnson declared the hostilities of the Civil War at an end, and that peace and order had been restored in ALL of the States. The States were conducting business in the Federal Capital, ALL Representatives from ALL States were seated. A resolution was passed for the 13th Amendment to end slavery. It was sent to the State's legislatures for ratification. The States Ratified the 13th Amendment. Then a resolution was passed for the 14th Amendment, ALL Representatives from ALL States were seated. The Bill passed and was sent to ALL of the States for ratification. But ratification by the States failed. IT IS AT THIS POINT, UPON THE FAILURE OF THE 14TH AMENDMENT RATIFICATION BY THE LAWFUL STATE LEGISLATURES THAT THE "RADICAL REPUBLICANS" REFUSED TO SEAT THE 10 SOUTHERN STATES, AND THEN WITHOUT THESE 10 SOUTHERN STATE PASSED LEGISLATION TO PROCEED WITH MILITARY OCCUPATION OF THESE 10 STATES. ONLY through military occupation of these 10 States was it ratified. By their own choosing, as proven by the FIRST RATIFICATION ATTEMPT, the States DID NOT ratify the 14th Amendment voluntarily.

So...either these States were NEVER lawful States after the Civil War and the 13th Amendment was NEVER ratified by them, OR, the States WERE lawful States when the 14th Amendment failed ratification, and the 14th Amendment is null and void.

AFTER the 14th Amendment was ratified by Military Coup, and BEFORE the 15th Amendment was even presented as a Resolution, the 10 States had already been readmitted to the Union. Therefore the 15th Amendment WAS properly ratified.

(the Reconstuction Acts also required the States to change their Constitutions to reflect that NO State official could serve office unless that person accepted United States Citizenship. To serve in government, either Federal level government or local, to be a government official a person was REQUIRED to be of this new "United States Citizen". Therefore it could be argued that if the 14th Amendment was unlawfully ratified and therefore null and void; EVERYTHING since then that has been legislated in the State or Federal levels is ALSO NULL AND VOID because the legislation was done by a citizen class that is ALSO null and void as though it never existed.)

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Nice history lesson but,

Nice history lesson but, unfortunately, wrong in some important particulars, such as "Virginia, Mississippi, Texas and Georgia, were required to ratify the [15th] amendment as a precondition for having congressional representation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteenth_Amendment_to_the_Unit...

sharkhearted's picture

This is a brilliant history lesson...

Thank you!

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Cyril's picture

One BIG problem. This is not my country

This is yours. But I'm trying to contribute to its reconstruction (restoration) with and for you, along with Ron Paul.

"Why" would you ask? Well, I'm maybe an alien, but my wife IS an American citizen, and one of my sons IS, TOO. Also, he is only TWO year old. And I sustain them all, ALONE (thru my work).

I therefore have THE BEST interests for my beloved ones in having the People of this country GET THEIR COUNTRY BACK. It's thus not so much for me, obviously.

Or certainly not so much for others, like this OWS movement who, IMO, don't understand the actual issues and/or THE ACTUAL THREATS and WHO TO REALLY blame, instead of confusing everything. "Apples and oranges."

(I'm not implying you support them, it's just an example.)

That being said:

First. You say the 14th amendment was never properly ratified. I'm afraid you express only a personal opinion, not a fact acknowledged by all the American People.

Second. If one asks me, I would want this 14th amendment in the Constitution. DEFINITELY. As much as I would want the 16th TO BE REPEALED. DEFINITELY as well.

Third. Both amendments seem very controversial still today, but for the sake of the argument, and being an alien who cannot speak with any authority, I am thus "by default" considering that BOTH are part of your today's Constitution.

Fourth and last. You eventually make a VERY GOOD POINT which is actually the EXACT SAME as mine:

From an English dictionary:

Rebellion, noun:
Opposition to one in authority or dominance

Q1: What is the purpose of the government in the USA ?

Answer:

The Government exists for the sole purpose of serving the People, not ruling the People:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Q2: In above definition of the word "rebellion" (and in the usage context of the 14th amendment), who is (or should be) understood as being in "dominance" and who is (or should be) understood as being the "rebel" ?

Answer:

The People MUST STAND STILL AND FIRM TO LET GOVERNMENT KNOW THAT:

THE PEOPLE DOMINATES, NOT THE GOVERNMENT.

THE GOVERNMENT SERVES THE PEOPLE. It is NOT the other way round.

THEREFORE:

THE PEOPLE AND THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF, VIA ITS 14TH AMENDMENT, STATE CLEARLY THAT REBELLION OF THE GOVERNMENT AGAINST THE PEOPLE

SHALL NOT BE TOLERATED (BY THE PEOPLE).

Please point me out where my reasoning above fails and how it does so.

Also, with regard to this, refer to ALL THE OCCURRENCES of "insurrection or rebellion" in the 14th amendment's text.

Thanks.

'Hope it makes better sense (?), &

Sincerely,

For Liberty,

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

sharkhearted's picture

You are a patriot, my friend...and an American at heart.

Even though many of us profoundly disagree on your position on the 14th.

No mind. We all want this:

Ron Paul 2012!

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

The elected officials are the ones

responsible for interpreting the Constitution. Elected officials would never consider themselves guilty of insurrecion or rebellion. The 14th amendment has been the most abused and distorted amendment in the Constitution by both the Judicial and Legislative branches.

no

the people are responsible

freedomdreemzz

Cyril's picture

Ah, it seems that maybe someone is getting to my point

But more specifically:

The PEOPLE RULES.

The GOVERNMENT SERVES the People.

And the Constitution is THE FORMALIZED INTENT EXPRESSION of WHY and HOW the People RULES ITSELF and PUTS THE GOVERNMENT to ITS SERVICE to ENSURE that all the People individuals ABIDE TO THIS INTENT.

Not to the Government's intent which SHOULD BE IRRELEVANT, NON-EXISTENT.

Again, and again, and again:

The Government's PURPOSE is to SERVE the People.

The People RULES OVER ITSELF AND the Government.

Rebellion or insurrection CANNOT COME from the People.

Those can have either of ONLY two sources:

1. A foreign, Enemy nation; e.g. trying to invade US Soil

Or

2. DOMESTIC ENEMIES, and those CANNOT BE from the People, because IT ALREADY RULES :

Thus, the only location left for the DOMESTIC REBELS

=

THE GOVERNMENT, per the VERY INTENT of the People's statement thru the Constitution.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius