27 votes

An Open Letter to Justin Raimondo.

Greetings Mr. Raimondo,

I want to thank you for the great letter you penned to Dr. Paul.

I also wanted to tell you I think Dr. Paul can stay in the race for the GOP nomination, and I have hope for a brokered convention, but I also believe we should petition all of the "3rd" parties out there that have a patchwork quilt of ballot access. It would be a great story in itself if Dr. Paul were nominated by multiple parties across the country. He doesn't have to drop out of the GOP race for us to ensure he's on the ballot in November.

We can work to get Dr. Paul on a number of these 3rd party ballots while he still pursues the GOP ticket and maximizes the minimal media coverage his campaign receives. A bonus of this approach would be the internal media of each of these 3rd parties - combined it's somewhat extensive.

And so I'm asking you Mr. Raimondo, would you please consider speaking on my behalf and others who think this is a good way to ensure Dr. Paul's name will be on the November ballot? I think phone calls from you to each of the parties I've listed below and meetings if needed would be very effective. You'll find help if needed in this endeavor from myself and my friends at http://www.rp2012.org/ (I think you'll like our petition!)

In November 2008 Ron Paul was on the Louisiana and Montana ballots, lets shoot for 50 state ballots this time around.

In Liberty, Zak Carter

"In a true revolution... believe me the revolution doesn't occur within a single political party. A true revolution and those views will be reflected in the Republican party and the Democrat party and the Independent party and everybody in the country will be affected!" Ron Paul

1. http://www.usiap.org/

2. http://www.americafirstparty.org/

3. http://www.americanpopulistparty.org

4. http://www.selfgovernment.us/

5. http://www.canaryparty.org/

6. http://www.christianlibertyparty.org/

7. http://www.votecitizens.org/contact-us

8. http://independenceamerica.com/contact-us/

9. http://www.jeffersonrepublican.blogspot.com/

10. http://bostontea.us/contact

11. http://www.modernwhig.org/contact

12. http://www.objectivistparty.us/

13. http://reformparty.org/

14. http://usmjparty.org/

15. http://www.unityparty.us/

16. http://www.gp.org/index.php

17. http://www.constitutionparty.com/

18. http://www.independentpartyofdelaware.org/

19. http://www.floridawhig.com/

20. http://www.conservativepartyusa.org/home/

21. http://www.conservativepartyusa.org/conservativepartynj/

22. http://www.cpnys.org/

23. http://www.nytaxpayer.org/

24. http://www.constitutionpartyoregon.net/

25. http://www.indparty.com/

26. http://www.moderate-ri.org/

27. http://www.lp.org/

(and yes I included the LP, even though I'm aware you stated Dr. Paul would have to ask for the nomination - I've also been told they can decline from nominating anyone and leave the convention open...ask them?:)

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Zak, being on those ballots

Zak, being on those ballots would harm Dr. Paul and his supporters who've become elected GOP people, because the establishment would crackdown on those who are in the GOP who support Dr. Paul. Also, even if it was possible to run on the ballot for all of those organizations, we must remember that the popular vote doesn't elect the president, the electoral college elects the president; and if you think that he would get any electoral college votes running on multiple 3rd party tickets, then I ask that you carefully think about who makes up the electoral college.

This is true

I'm not stealth. I openly campaigned as a Ron Paul Republican and I won my seat, and if Ron Paul bails on those like me, you're right, the establishment will knock us down.. we'll be sitting ducks.

That would work out great for Raimondo, he can continue to tell us how bad the establishment is.. not that he is willing to fight it... he's not.

I'm sure Ron Paul knows that it would hurt those of us who followed him into the GOP, became delegates, and have been fighting for him. I really don't think he would abandon us. I really believe Ron Paul is a great man who would never betray his true followers.

I have been voting you up, Granger,

on many of your comments of this nature that you've been making, supporting the GOP take-over strategy which we have all be working on,at the request of Ron Paul.

I believe that there are some trolls here that have been sent in to sow discord.
Thanks for hanging tough!

That's what I mean Big T, THANK YOU for being an example

My best friends are Ron Paul Republicans. Like Ron Paul, people like you are the best people on Earth. I'm very very fortunate to have you, Ron Paul, and Ron Paul Republicans as my true friends.

Deceit, betrayal, distortion, cheating, lies, robbery are everywhere, and yet, because I'm a Ron Paul Republican, people like you have my back, and I have yours. I don't even have to ask, nor do you. It's a pleasure because we are fighting a good fight by choice.

Many times, I don't even know my back is covered, But, I'm happy to know, PROUD to know, GRATEFUL, and even HUMBLED to KNOW, that people like you BigT, who are not afraid of the truth, and facing distortionists, and fighting the good fight in the name of Ron Paul rEVOLution, Freedom, Liberty, Constitutional Government and Bill of Rights, Sound Money, limited government, Free Trade, No war, are there for me, Ron paul and our rEVOLution in the GOP. And I am for them, as we are all working hard to lift Ron Paul and his message beyond the words and books, and GOP, but into life, our lives, our nation, the planet and universe.

From the bottom of my heart to the top of my powers, I THANK YOU. God Bless you, Ron Paul, Ron Paul Republicans who have my back, everywhere.

Well That is Discouraging

Plan B. Ramp up efforts to get all third parties to sign up Republican RIGHT NOW so their third party platforms will have a voice under the new liberty government.

TPTB sure have all their crocked corners covered.

Keep thinking outta the box ZAK if The Philosopher is right and most likely he is.

It is going to take some creativity to deliver this liberty baby....but it is full term and ready to leave the womb!


In Defense of Zak

....I was posting when my computer crashed and Jim stated it much better than I would have.

I appreciate your passion Granger, but I appreciate Zak's humility and willingness to think outside the box much more.
He can revise his list. We can all write to the third parties addressing their platforms and showing how without Liberty they are all riding a dead horse.

We all need to be thinking outside the box and while stepping up our efforts with delegates and for the convention, we need to think beyond the convention. How we back Ron Paul no matter what. Even Doug Wead has said in answer to "what next" if this fails" ..he will not do anything without the support and agreement of the Ron Paul movement.

We all want Ron to win. We'd all like to transform the Republican Party and make it ours. We all have hope for that. Everything we have accomplished so far has been through creatively approaching *the system* and I would hate to see creative thinking thrown out the window.

Many of us are thinking outside the box to ensure this movement continues to grow exponentially. My out of the box thinking today was even having an election by precinct for Liberty (not a person) where foreign contributions would be legal.

My post may have been dumb, but if we all throw out ideas without attacking each other, something miraculous only because it has never been done may come out of it.


RP running as Libertarian Candidate

Justin is so right. Now is the time for Ron to dump this husk of a party. I've always thought that the best legacy Ron can create now is to break this two party stranglehold on the American public's imagination. Most people including me who support Ron Paul hate the traditional GOP and they will never accept him. Break away now and take all of your supporters with you plus all of the independents and disaffected Democrats and even if you don't win you will have changed American politics forever.

I believe that the LP is on the ballot in all 50 states so this is a moment that can bring about real change.

Run, Ron, run as the LP candidate and change the world!!

Zak is NOT Suggesting Libertarian Party

...he is throwing out the possibility of *many* third parties behind Ron Paul. That is different. I have been against running third party. This is a different proposal.


A patchwork quilt?

Your list is redundant and out of date Zak Carter, please check out www.politics1.org/third parties.

For example the Reform Party is DEAD, Nader killed it when Pat Buchannon gave him the nomination on 04... back then it was only good in one state. Most third parties are established by the elites to vet new candidates or issues (Green party was established by Rockefeller to vet nuclear energy). Do you know what third Party Obama was vetted? The NEW Party. Ron Paul was vetted in the Libertarian Party. Ron Paul GRADUATED into the GOP and he's offering us a chance of a lifetime, while the cowards among us would throw away all our hard work for all these years away, to appease their FEARS.

Raimondo wants us to stop our good fight and appease the weakest among us who claim to support Ron Paul (they don't, they support Raimondo).


Elect Raimondo... GOOD LUCK & GOOD BYE!!! Are those who follow Raimondo helping us win? NO. They are trying to divide us and make us think we are losing. We are NOT losing. We are winning.

How many of them helped get Ron Paul delegates? NOT ONE. How do I know this? You have to be a Republican. None of them are Republicans. I see NO reason we should appease them. They didn't help any Ron Paul Republican get a seat on a committee or elected to an office or do anything but WHINE about the GOP.

IF you are not a Republican you are NOT helping Ron Paul or the Ron Paul rEVOLution, which is taking place inside the GOP.

That is the truth, something cowards and losers can't face. Let it bleed. I know who my friends are and they are REPUBLICANS, RON PAUL REPUBLICANS.. they are not third party and independent confues bigots. I KNOW who helped me win my seat, and it sure as hell wasn't the likes of Raimondo or his buddies. SHAME ON THEM!!!

courageous winner

... here. Notice how you've fallen back on name-calling to make your weak-ass case for the GOP. Fact is the GOP can and will cheat Dr. Ron Paul out of the nomination. Period. 100% certainty on that issue. So by your reasoning we should all march like lemmings toward that cliff, never questioning, never thinking as individuals... just march off the cliff.

No thanks, I fully support Zak's concept and going much further:

I say a large event with celebrity-endorsements, liberty bands, major ( alternative ) media coverage, etc etc should happen soon in which Dr. Paul simultaneously announces 3 things:

1. "I'm officially dropping out of the GOP due to widespread fraud"

2. "I'm announcing my Vice Presidential candidate: Governor Jesse Ventura"

3. "I'm interested in becoming the nominee for all third party organizations which stand for liberty"

Yep, I notice that, and I have no regrets calling it as I see it

What's more, is I sincerely mean it.

I don't see Ron Paul doing what you are suggesting because I sincerely believe Ron Paul is a man I can trust to not betray me. Those who did not join the GOP, they were NEVER my friend, or truly Ron Paul supporters. They NEVER got it.

And you make a good point, in that joining the GOP, that really wasn't enough. I guess if that was the least one could do, it would be respectable, but much much more was really needed. Running for office, being seated, being a delegate.. THAT is what Ron Paul NEEDS.

What you have to say about the GOP is not from experience, it's from MSM and your FEAR (False Evidence Appearing Real).

You chose to go the route of losers. And that's exactly what you'll accomplish, losing.

Ron Paul is not a loser. Ron Paul KNOWS what he is talking about, and he has been correct about the GOP. I see NO REASON he should quit to appease those who didn't follow him or did a half butt job, waiting for others to fail. Shame on them.

We are not going to fail. We may not win the presidential election, but we have already won many elections this year. We have much to celebrate. I can't wait for Tampa.

This is so much better than any third party or Indy experience I've had in my life.

I owe it all to Ron Paul and the REPUBLICANS who signed my petition and joined me in supporting Ron Paul for president in the glorious Ron paul rEVOLution happening in the GOP.

GOP fraud

... is self-evident. It's on videos from St. Charles County... it's on the ground in Charlie Webster's Maine... it's in little rule changes, curious circumstances, foul play. The GOP is the enemy of Ron Paul's presidency bid. Third party time has come now, today. Circumstances have changed, time for men to act and little frightened boys to run and hide behind things they thought would always be. byatch.

( BTW I'm a GOP state delegate )

So you're planning on running away from the GOP?

Ron Paul chose to go for the GOP nomination. It doesn't matter what Raimondo says, or thousands of people who refuse to join the GOP because THEY KNOW there is FRAUD. It doesn't matter to Ron Paul and the rEVOLution. We are NOT going to run away. We are going to fight harder.

These past events in CA, people joined the GOP, and hopefully most of them will begin going to Republican Central Committee meetings, running as delegates, or even better, running for offices, Supervisors, and seek appointments. That is how we win.

Remember the Gandi quote? "First they ignor you, then they fight you, and then you win." ?

The GOP is fighting us. To run away to a third party or Indy ballot isn't how we win. We win by staying in the fight, far past the 2012 election. Even if Romney were to win the nomination, I think most of us KNOW, he isn't going to beat Obama. He isn't going to get the majority of GOP votes. At this point, there are too many of us who have joined the GOP, have seats, are attending events, earning respect, and beginning to have influence. Our enthusiasm is contagious, and the envy of many candidates, including Romney.

When I went to my first RCC meeting, the two people there actually "lost their lunch" they were not happy that a Ron Paul Republican showed up. They blocked me from going to the State convention, and then returned and complained to me about Ron Paul and Ron Paul people with signs and blocking the halls, and ruining the convention... those people have QUIT the RCC. That gave me my seat/ that and the signatures. Now I go and more people are showing up, and the buzz is all about Ron Paul, and it's exciting. While the Republican women's group still has not invited me, I KNOW they are having fits because I am now seated on the Republican Central Committee, and by leaving me out, makes them look stupid, and weak.

On the other hand, I have been invited to attend a tea party that is being hosted by the constitutional sheriffs association, and I'll be there, with my Super brochures, bumper stickers, buttons and yard signs. I plan on introducing myself to everyone there and passing out as much Ron Paul stuff as I can. I also plan to drop by the County Clerk and drop off my papers for an appointment for a committee seat on the board of supervisors.

I KNOW I am THE FUTURE and I also KNOW, I would not have this opportunity if I were third party or Indy. I have been Libertarian from 1976 to 1992, and Decline to State Party from 1993 to 2011. I was always on the outside, never had any power, I protested, rallied, petitioned and got tens of thousands of signatures, went to many courts and made statements.. and never got anywhere.. oh I got awards and written up in magazines and books for my activism, but I never had the real opportunity to really change things, and now I have that opportunity.

I don't expect it to be easy. I don't expect the Neocons to roll over and play dead, or to just give me the power, or any of us. I expect them to fight dirty and to lose. They are losing and why they are fighting dirty.

We are going to win. We are winning. So you can bail ship and hang out with the likes of Raimondo and those who are powerless and want us to be powerless too... at least he gets paid for being powerless.. but for me, and for many like me, we see that we actually have a future making real changes, following Ron Paul, not Justin Raimondo. Ron Paul is the real peace maker. Ron Paul is the real fighter and gentleman. We are fortunate and most blessed to have Ron Paul as our political leader, and I for one am NOT going to give that up, and what's best of all, is I KNOW Ron Paul is not going to give me up or any Ron Paul Republicans. He's going to continue to fight this good fight and back us as we back each other. Why would anyone want anything less? My guess is Raimondo because he's getting paid and needs to pander to his liberal audience. I'm glad that's not me. I'm also glad that you have decided to quit the GOP and join Raimondo. It should make us much stronger with solid people who do not run away when the going gets tough.

Hopefully Raimondo will have your back. He never had mine, but maybe he'll have yours. Ron Paul and the rEVOLution has mine and they proove it time and time again.

I fully despise the GOP, The DNC

... and I don't trust the LP, the Greens, or any other existing political party. I'm officially FED UP with the FED's minions and all their various flavors and CIA-backed color "revolutions"...

I read your account of previous third-party experiences. Nader remains in the "questionable" category for me - I'm not convinced he's for real due to "judge a man by the fruits of his labors"...

Your argument has some merit - but it rests on the premise that the two-party monopoly still has a firm grip on American politics... it does not.

Your argument rests on a premise that to drop the party which is clearly working against your candidate is the strategy of a quitter, it is most definitely NOT.

You make a lot of re-assuring noise about how the GOP is catching fire with liberty - I too have noticed these things. But unfortunately, Karl Rove is pulling the strings that really run the decrepit old-boy's GOP machine and he won't let Dr. Ron Paul win becuase that's what his globalist employers tell him to do. So the REAL Ron Paul supporters are willing to face that reality NOW, while we still have time to DO SOMETHING about it. You aren't the only player and this game is far too complex for any single "player" to understand all the angles. Trilateralist politics don't make sense at first ... you have to stand way way back my friend. Peace to you and your family


Maybe it's because I live in CA?

I believe that both major parties were infiltraited by Neocons and Neocliberals who have worked to bring the USA where we are today, under the UN in a NWO, global government.

I believe MSM has pushed this agenda, the UN Agenda 21.

I KNOW the third parties are controlled by the major parties, and that Independents have NO representation.

Now it could be just my RCC, but I don't believe it is, where I found RINOs, former Democrats, who worked for the papers, found the local GOP was abandoned. No one was attending meetings, so the Democrats stepped in, registered GOP just to keep it alive/duopoly. I believe Ron Paul knew this was true in many places and why he has said the GOP was ready to be taken.

The problem is getting past the MSM fabricated hatred for the GOP. People HATE the GOP. People FEAR the GOP. Many times at my RCC meeting it's me and the chair... I have more people attending my Grange meeting, more people attending my Grange women's meeting. The GOP here was dead, and yet, it's a major party with all the tools and power to actually do something BIG. So I don't think I am alone.. I have heard simular reports from other Ron Paul supporters in CA.

This is one reason I think Ron Paul is doing so well in CA, and I do believe he absolutely has the opportunity to win the state. That's ALLOT of delegates. People here LIKE Ron Paul. I think he's popular because we are all so tired of the Democratic iron grip that is choking us to death.

I have tuned out what MSM says about anything because they are so FOS I can't depend on what they say. Meanwhile, it is true that the passion for Ron Paul is attracting people.

I really like all the Ron Paul Republicans I meet. I feel very fortunate. I do not feel played or that I'm being lied to. I also like the power I have locally. I believe this power is going to grow, not just for me, but for many of us, and all we have to do is put forth Ron Paul's message, vote NO as Ron Paul, and make sure we are doing what Ron Paul would have us do. This is not hard. Actually, it's a pleasure. So for me, I feel very fortunate and I would hope that would be true for everyone who joined the GOP for Ron Paul, attends meetings, and finds Ron Paul Republican friends.

I have never had this support with LP or Nader's Indy runs. It was always "each man for himself", and I was prepared to do this for Ron Paul, but that's not what is happening. What is happening is I'm getting tons of support. I'm not used to that, and I admit, I LOVE it.

In a way, the GOP that MSM talks about is dying in front of me. The Neocons are leaving because the truth is, they don't have the support they need for Rove. They have anger, hatred, and that does not sustain, or feel good by comparison to those of us who are having fun, despite the MSM black out or shunning. It's why I know we are winning. I believe that those who are shunning me today are going to be seeking my favor tomorrow. I believe the newspapers that are refusing to publish me today are going to be wanting stories from me... I beleive I have allot fo work in front of me.. even if Ron Paul does not win the nomination, there are so many if us here in CA that are connected, networking, campaigning for Ron Paul, supporting each other despite MSM and the Neocons... it's really awesome to be part, and Raimondo... he's going to eat crow, and then his antiwar.com is going to become irrelevant because we are going to end America's role in the wars, and Americans role in the UN's wars.

That is our goal, and the GOP is giving us the opportunity, because, the neocon agenda broke the party and MSM has covered up that story, as they were part of it. Maybe we'll all be arrested in mass? Some folks think that's what is our future.. we'll all be rounded up, put in FEMA camps, tortured and killed. If that's the future for me, I will not run and hide from it. It's not what I'd like to happen, but I can't imagine living my life as a lie. I can't think that if I knew Americans were being rounded up and killed I would just thank goodness it wasn't me and be more careful to do what the government wanted in fear that it could be me. I think eventually it would be. I'm a rebel with a cause. Always have been.

THANK YOU FOR THE PEACE. I LOVE it! I LOVE you for going there!

BMWJIM's picture

Granger, Go easy!

Zak is not the enemy. If you think so then you just sank to the bottom of the pile.

Please do not take offense in my words but Zak is one of the good guys.

If you want to attack ,feel free to attack me. I personally don't f*ing care. I'm a new Romney delegate! Lol!
Guess where my vote goes! Bet you can't! Go on, for the next Hundred years, you'll NEVER guess where my vote goes!!!

First vote, Not the chicken shit second vote. Well maybe you can guess and you would be right. Lay off Zak.

Semper Fi my Friend!


1976-1982 USMC, Having my hands in the soil keeps me from soiling my hands on useless politicians.

I apologise if I came off like Zak was the enemy

Those who claim they support Ron Paul BUT have not joined the GOP are "the enemy". Seriously.

I only joined the GOP last year. MY BAD. I joined the Libertarian Party in 1976, and went Decline to State Party AKA Indy in 93, and never thought I would be a Republican, but Ron Paul is RIGHT ON about the GOP, and this is a good fight. Best political fight of my life.

I'm being honest with Zak about third parties and I gave him a link www.politics1.org that will back up what I've told him with FACT.

It's a nice thought to have a quilt of third parties, but there is no way it would work.. I worked for Ralph Nader for three elections, and we tried quiltworking political parties. I KNOW from experience how brutal elections are for Indy's. All of us worked very hard for Nader's ballot access, and Ron Paul is NO dummy.. he knows, there's NO WAY to win except in the GOP.

I'm sorry if that truth hurts people, but being falsely arrested and fined, being beat up, being robbed, stalked, vandalized, HURTS WORSE, and I saw many many good people who worked for Nader get HURT bad. No MSM cared. Back then we could pool money to bail people out of jail... now you can't do that. Ron Paul knows. THANK GOD Ron Paul is not willing to have us get hurt they way good people got hurt trying to get Nader ballot access, like a patchwork.. Green Party divided.. did you know that? Nader refused to join Green Party because of it's UN Agenda, so the Green Party split and formed Green Party USA for Nader, who still refused to join. Seven third parties could not give Nader the ballot access he needed, and God, did the GOP and Democrat Party mess with us BAD. I had a detective call me from 250 miles away to say I was being charged with assult and battery. I didn't assult anyone. The dectective refused to tell me who filed charges against me. Do I need that again? NO. Do you?

Raimondo is misleading people and Zak may mean well, but my experience knows, it won't work; it will hurt allot of people. Ron Paul's plan is brilliant. Raimondo's plan is not. I'd love to see Nader tell Raimondo the truth in his suggestion. Nader knows how many of his people were falsely arrested. Nader knows how many of his people were beat up, robbed, detained, and how many law suits we had against us 22 in 17 states. Our campaign was bankrupt through all the law suits against us. And that's what Raimondo wants for us? That's what Zak wants for us? They either don't know what we went through, or they are putting many of us in grave danger because they have an alterior motive (I'm sure Raimondo has an ulterior motive, I'll give Zak the benefit of the doubt).

Again, I am sincerely sorry of It sounded that Zak was the enemy. I don't think that way about Zak. I do think that way about Raimondo.

Had No Idea

...that it got THAT ugly. So, TPTB will go that far. We are fighting folks with no morals; no sense of right and wrong.


It was even worse than that fonta

Nader was arrested for showing up to a debate he was invited to comment on.. He never got inside the door, and he had a ticket. As soon as his limo arrived, he was arrested and detained. http://www.monitor.net/monitor/0010a/copyright/naderbarred.html

You know, come to think of it, Ron Paul does have a patchwork of parties already, in people who have belonged to other parties and abandoned those parties to join him in the GOP. People like me. And there's people who were Republicans, that remained Republicans but became Ron Paul Republicans.. they have it the best. But I have to honestly say, I've met allot fo people who were Libertarian, Indy, Green, Democrat, Constitution Party that joined the GOP for Ron Paul, became delegates. My best friend was a Green, now a Republican.. Here in NorCal, there are quite a few liberals who joined the GOP for Ron Paul... today, I was driving down the street in my Ron Paul mobile and this guy starts screaming: RON PAUL RON PAUL RIGHT ON Wooooo hoooo GO RON PAUL.. so I pulled over and handed him a bumper sticker, and he was so stoked.. "Yeah man! Right on, THANK YOU THANK YOU!!"

I gave him a thumbs up and drove on.. passed out a few Super brochures... what a great campaign to be part of. It's the best campaign in my life, and I'm really happy to be a Republican. My committee members, some quit and how I got my seat, but right now, they sincerely respect me. They respect me for being openly passionate about Ron Paul. They respect me for voting NO and taking the time to explain things to them. I believe my chair likes Ron Paul... he actually gave me a short stack of Ron Paul slim jims...

So, I think here in CA, we have a great opportunity to win, what it is 172 delegates? I just got an email asking me to volunteer for Ron Paul from another county... the fact I won a seat is a big deal, and it wasn't hard. It was spooky, and that was too bad, but I understand it's hard to not believe everything MSM says.

We need to get people to join the GOP. That is how we are going to win.

Hello, The Granger-

I want you to know how much I appreciate the learning and lesson I've gotten from your comments in this thread and I not only understand your passion, the true feirceness needed to fight TPTB, I share them. In fact, I'm ashamed to admit that I'm one of those life long Republicans, new to Ron Paul, who has no idea how easy I've got it; but for the real unsung heroes like you, who've been thru it all and are STILL here fighting the good fight. A Real Reality Check. And honestly, if I'd been through what you have, I'd be living in Uruguay today. What you just talked about was reminiscent of Tammany Hall. Clearly, human nature hasn't changed, just technology. I was willingly consummed it seems, under the spell of the MSM when Nader was running for President and have quite a lot of catching up to do. But I don't like surprises when investing so much, as opposed to just gambling.

"If you want something you've never had before, you have to do something you've never done before." Debra Medina

Understand You Better Now Granger

Nader experience sounds awful and it is certainly to your credit that you are still trying to change the system.

Wish we could tap some of that patchwork quilt that is now in the RP tapestry to learn the *hot buttons* with some of the third parties so we could try tapping the hot buttons with the fact that their platforms are going to sink without liberty.

Thanks for sharing your political experience. I, too, have high hopes for California and Texas having lived both places.


Aaron Russo..From the Grave

...when he was alive encouraged all liberty lovers and ALL THIRD PARTIES to unite behind Ron Paul. If alive, he would still say this:


To me, Zak's thought is not that Ron Paul should run third party ...it is that he should run third parties. That is different and can't that be in the works but announced after the convention if we don't get our convention *miracle*?

Many *proud* third party folks secretly don't vote because they don't have a chance. As a matter of fact, most third parties historically have fallen by the wayside.

Some Democrats can't stomach voting Republican, but don't like O'Bama. Many major third parties uniting behind Ron Paul would be like uniting for Liberty. Whatever their platform, it doesn't have a chance without liberty and inside this flawed system.

I think this has merit and we all need to think out of the box. Doug Wead recently said that any decision Ron Paul makes will depend upon his supporters. Let's get ready for all eventualities.


Well said, fonta-

because multiple parties is an out-of-the-box, never been tried before idea. Consequently, automatically boo-hooed right out of the box.

It should be put on the table for discussion as a Plan B &/or C, regardless of the fact that Plan A-brokered convention-is a damn good one, it's the only one as for as I know. The problem I'm certainly not qualified to deal with tho is the timing, e.g., the LP convention is in May-before the TX primary. Logistics is not my specialty. It'd be nice tho if someone could sit down and pound them out. But on the surface, it's always nice to have a plan B. The 'Powers That Be' sure do.

Sure appreciate your open-mindedness, fonta.

"If you want something you've never had before, you have to do something you've never done before." Debra Medina

Thanks Sousa

Just seems that breaking out of *status quo* with anything requires new thinking. Many enormously successful ventures have begun that way and I think, here of all places, nobody should feel that a creative thought is not worth throwing out.

Also I noted that while we all appreciate the voice of wisdom and The Granger sure has inside knowledge of the Nader failed effort, he DID mention that they too thought of patchwork quilt 3rd parties uniting for a common cause.

Must not have been such a bad idea Zak had. The wisdom of what has not worked in the past is one of our strengths and many on this list have a great deal of experience. However, as much as I liked Nader on some issues...he was not Ron Paul. I think his primary message is the greatest unifying factor imaginable. Everything fails without it.

Even if there is a positive Black Swan out there in the form of stealth delegates, the Liberty movement is going to continue to need creative thinking to get the message out.

I think the campaign and especially Doug know the logistics and have been saying that they are in it for the long haul with Plan A, but also that we need Plan B,C,and D because we are in it to win it...liberty.


Your welcome-

It appears thinking and discussing out- of-the- box ideas and loyalty to Plan A have somehow become mutually exclusive, given all the recent thumbs down without explanation. Kinda feels like censorship-LOL!

"If you want something you've never had before, you have to do something you've never done before." Debra Medina

Your Medina Quote Sousa

...goes PERFECTLY with our down voted exchange. Perhaps that will make a statement. Also, LOL. Kinda strange though.


Forgive my ignorance

But how does this work? Can a candidate be on a different party's ballot in each state and win the entire election? Sorry, I'm new to all this.


Those Who Push AE

...keep saying that he can be on their ballot even tho on the Republican Ballot. So what would the difference be? Is there any precedent of 3rd parties uniting behind one candidate?

It is either possible or it is not. A lot of the 3rd parties would be better off as far as their platforms with Ron Paul than with ugh...the others. Do they want to throw away *their* votes...or adopt the candidate with the most organization...the most vocal supporters...the one that tells the truth?

Some of them are a stretch...a lot are not!


Stroke of Genius, Mr. Carter-

"In a true revolution... believe me the revolution doesn't occur within a single political party. A true revolution and those views will be reflected in the Republican party and the Democrat party and the Independent party and everybody in the country will be affected!" Ron Paul

There are so many brilliant thinkers across the board who exemplify this quote as you just did Mr. Carter...I think you have just made one huge contribution which Justin started. What a spark!

And I've noticed in the last few weeks, months actually, more and more 'with a microphone' so to speak are starting to talk the RP message without concern for their reputation!

I know there's a rEVOLution going on, but sometimes, like now, I can feel it!

Thank You. I've posted everywhere I can!

"If you want something you've never had before, you have to do something you've never done before." Debra Medina

Super Positive Approach Zak

Justin has a huge following and he did say:

"Ron, I know you’re out there speaking to huge crowds – 10,000 at UCLA, even as I write – and how thrilled you must be by this kind of reception. And I know you’re remembering the time when those crowds amounted to a few dozen, at most – and I imagine how gratified you must feel. Finally, the pro-peace pro-liberty camp is making some progress – but it doesn’t have to end in Tampa. Please consider carrying the banner of peace and liberty all the way to November and beyond – because the future of the country, and the peace of the world, depends on it."

I am for anything that gets the message out there. You took most peoples' complaint about Justin's letter to Dr. Paul and made a suggestion that is very positive. That would certainly send a message. Crazy? Not really. We have to think outside the box and your letter sure does that. Not 3rd Party...but ALL (or most) 3rd Parties! Fun to think about. (I just keep saying..."come on Black Swan..come on...I know you are out there waiting for some off the wall ideas.)