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An Open Letter to Adam Kokesh on Religion and Liberty

Dear Adam,

I’m sure you’ve received a lot of correspondence regarding your recent statements about religion and the liberty movement. Obviously some of this has become rather contentious, particular within a certain Daily Paul thread begun by my friend, Burningsirius (who isn’t a “government bot,” by the way). I would like to try and point out some of the reasons this dialogue has grown into an ugly conflict.

Beginning in your video from the Reason Rally, and continuing through your latest video addressed to Penn Jillette, you have repeatedly asserted that religion is irrational and that Christianity in particular is incompatible with liberty. As you have at this point heard, many of us disagree, and dislike the fact that you seem to be set against the Christian members of this revolution.

Second, you have replied to our concerns with personal attacks, calling us - as I alluded to above – government bots, illogical, close-minded, and other assertions that don’t actually address the issue of the logical validity of faith, or its compatibility with freedom. I know you like to offend people, but I think you also realize that insults are not the most efficient way to solve ideological differences in a group of people that can’t afford to lose people.

Finally, and perhaps most egregiously, when confronted with the two above issues and asked to provide evidence of your claims, you have deflected to straw men such as bigoted preachers and the Roman Empire, applying their flaws to the Bible as a whole. Your generalization is a textbook example of the ecological fallacy, and I do not think you are so naïve not to have realized this in the process of making your assertions.

This misrepresentation of our faith (and of any faith) is the main reason we are upset. If you have a genuine problem with the Bible, let us know which chapters and verses you take issue with, and we can have a reasonable dialogue that would perhaps settle some misunderstandings. Burningsirius has updated his thread, which I will link below, to explain the differences between modern concepts of slavery and those found in the Bible, to illustrate the inherent compatibility with a libertarian, and indeed anarcho-capitalist, mindset. He can be a bit brash in tone at times, but I ask you to forgive him that, as many people forgive you of the same.

I am personally a Messianic Jew, meaning I follow a lifestyle dictated by the Torah while also accepting the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. My libertarian and voluntaryist beliefs stem first from my faith, and I would posit that they are in no way inferior to your similar sentiments. Our goals and our means are the same, even if our motives are not, and that is enough for me.

I plan to post this letter to the Daily Paul, partially in defense of my friend, and partially because I feel I need to speak out on this issue. I welcome input from any who read this. Thank you.

http://www.dailypaul.com/223159/you-cant-be-christian-and-li...

Sincerely,
Tzion

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you're wasting your breath

adam's 15 minutes were up months ago.

"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul

I'm generally in the school

I'm generally in the school of Adam and Penn. But I disagree with this religion can't be libertarian nonsense... these people don't understand what liberty is about and would do well reading Berlin's essay on the difference between positive and negative liberty.

We define liberty and libertarianism more by what IT'S NOT than what it IS. You can't be libertarian and decide who gets to be a libertarian and a member of your exclusive little club of likeminded thinkbots. I think Penn understands that, cause when pressed on the subject he isn't so anti-religious at all.. he just likes to tickle people, lol. Adam I'm not so sure about. Adam seems more of an 'angertarian' sometimes.

If you call yourself a RP Christian you need to see this site..

* * *

http://atruechurch.info

* * *

It is truly amazing that nearly every church in America has its members duped into a false version of Christianity.

The test of your own church is simple, does the preaching and activities actually stand up to the words of the bible.

This small church will challenge everything you thought you knew about being a Christian. But that is ok because the bible teaches that reproof is good and that those who refuse it are doomed.

Sometimes being a Christian is more about knowing what is not Christian. Kind of like being a conservative is knowing first what is "not conservative", before watching Fox News (who screws up the definitions; war is not a conservative value, but Fox News preaches WAR as a value). Likewise, what the 501(c)3 churches preach today is not truth but a lie.

For example, the bible teaches that the road to heaven is narrow and not wide. But what does this mean?

Have a look at this website, study it, be reproved and know that the entire world, all of modern Christianity is actively in the process of being duped.

* * *

http://atruechurch.info

* * *

I met Adam kokesh in a cow pasture. in Minnesota.

I was sitting around a campfire burning possumwood when I got a tap on my shoulder, it was someone (Adam) asking if he could download something, this took me by surprise because I had set up the Wi-fi in the pasture for everyone to use.
sure, Adam is full of piss and vinegar, but who am I to judge? I was not in Fallujah. ever!
this is what he downloaded in Sept of 08.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLUX0y4EptA

Pat the kid on the head

Sure Kokesh is quite a lot smarmy when he gets going on religion, but it makes me feel rather like patting him on the head and saying, "Keep exploring, my son." He reminds me of many young people, myself included many years ago, who struggle with spiritual concepts and their relationship to whatever God there may be. If Kokesh had really decided that God didn't exist, he wouldn't go about proclaiming it.

As Robert Pirsig wrote, “You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They know it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kinds of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt.”

Kokesh is doubtful of his chosen stance on spiritual matters and therefore needs to crow about it for a season.

Those of us who've been through that season should just pat the kid on the head and remind him that others have passed that way before. It's only if you quit seeking that you end up stuck. Beating your head against religion is just seeking Kokesh style. Cut the kid some slack and let him find God in his own brash time.

It's ALL religion

Very, very few understand what it truly means to have no faith. The vast majority simply substitute the state for God. I have no issue with those who have no faith but for them to then pretend that they are somehow more rational because they have faith in MEN to make good government or to be vigilant and make government be good...that is simply state worship. Commies are the ultimate state worshippers. It is far more rational to blame the state for wars and evil than religion. When people demand the state force their religious views (like Frothy-ites) that simply reveals their weak faith in God and their faith in the state class as Ultimate Authority (to decide who should marry, if it is OK to kill the unborn, etc.). It is a mistake to confuse God with mens flawed interpretations or to simply rely on Sola Scriptura, that also relies on interpretation.

As Kokesh continues

to divide the liberty movement...people still cheer him on. Sad.

"If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks], which has its origin in North America, should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will hav

sharkhearted's picture

You are wrong.

He was the one that turned this ex-neocon (and devoted Christian) on to Dr. Paul.

He is not dividing the liberty movement. He pushes the enevelope...and yes he is rough around the edges...but he is bringing people TO the liberty movement...which is as broad and varied and disagreeable as ever.

One thing we all have in common if we disagree on everything else: That popular subject called liberty.

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

and on that last note.

You are right. :-)

Time will tell on the other matter. But regardless, the campaign to restore American values, introduce a new economic model (re-introduce?) and open minds has been worth it.

The beauty of the RP campaign...freedom brings people together.

"If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks], which has its origin in North America, should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will hav

I'm not sure

I trust him. He seems to be creating unnecessary issues. Lew Rockwell and Tom Woods are devout Catholics, as was Joe Sobran.

sharkhearted's picture

Read my comments above...

This movement is varied....its OK that you don't trust him...I for one, however, will give him the benefit of the doubt.

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

I like Adam Kokesh even more

I like Adam Kokesh even more now I hear he has ruffled the feathers of the theoslaves that by coincidence happen to consider themselves part of a 'revolution'.

Hopefully his (understandable) antagonism towards those who despise tyranny unless it's perpetrated by a celestial dictator will help him understand why I am calling for a movement that firmly establishes its fundamental principles, and does not choose to appease those suffering from the delusions of theism and statism.

To those of you who read this comment who are Christians, forgive me.

You are "calling for a

You are "calling for a movement that firmly establishes its fundamental principles, and does not choose to appease those suffering from the delusions of theism and statism."

Let's hear some of those fundamental principles from your perspective. A few follow up questions may result and help promote such a movement.

Well said. I hadn't read

Well said. I hadn't read this particular thread before.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Here's Adam right in the "thick of it"...

...perhaps having his worldview shaped/encouraged...he is there video taping and listening...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZAmN0DD7cs

I was just perusing creationtoday.org website, and his posted interviews from the rally...

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFB785D4A3002E915&feat...

I am just thankful the DEBATE is heating up; and, that Dr. Paul's faith in a Creator lines up with the founders beliefs in one as well...because the is where the empowerment to make moral decisions(do RIGHT no matter what it costs) from one's conscience comes from...in MY opinion/worldview...

Empowerment is an intrinsic value; not an extrinsic one - I cannot empower anyone to do anything...you either have it in you, or you don't!

Stick to the ISSUES please

Leave religion out of it.

"Of all the dispositions and

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports..." ~George Washington

I never cared for Adam and religion had nothing to do with it

I thought a lot of his ideas were juvenile for a man of his age. He would say some good intelligent things and 5 minutes later say something so off I couldn't get behind him. His tirade against Jesse Benton-whether true or not, was an immature act he probably regrets. He didn't think it out very well about what he was doing and probably regrets it. Something we all do as young people, but he is 6 years older than me and I think he acts 6 years younger than me.

Religion is irrational

Religion is irrational

Atheism is irrational

Atheism is irrational

Well, I didn't provide any less proof to back up my statement than you did yours.

Can I join?

Paleo-I think that's funny and totally true.

Making an affirmative claim

Making an affirmative claim requires evidence and proof.

Stating the obvious requires observance, that is all.

What

are your observations?

Here is another question: is all government a form of tyranny, or does it become tyranny because of the motives that those in power obtain? Is all government wrong or is there a good form of it? Or, again along the same lines, are guns wrong, or is it the people that use them? If your answer is, "Well, my dear quiet.meadow, of course it's the people that make the wrong choices that cause a thing to be misused," then I must ask: can it also, then, be stated that religion can be misused?

Which is why my statement

didn't require any evidence or proof.

to everyone in this chain of responses. PEOPLE are irrational.

people of all walks, faiths, atheists, scientists, savages, you name it.

the more rational one is, the more devious and bizarre the irrationalness finally manifests itself.

like driving non-stop, except for gas, across many states, wearing a diaper.

that was a scientist who did that.

we're all irrational in our own ways.

we do our best, and by talking to each other calmly, maybe we can help each other hold fast.

OMG . . . what is the

OMG . . . what is the fixation with religion on this site???? You want new supporters? I will NEVER send anyone to the DP if you guys keep spamming it with posts about religion. This site is supposed to be about winning an election and promoting liberty, not religious debates.

Blessings )o(

You can talk that way now,

You can talk that way now, but you will stand before God some day. 10 Out of 10 people die, right? Eternity is a long, long time. If you are truly a reasonable person, you will investigate all this before you write it off. Your eternal destiny is at stake, and you can't afford to be wrong.

OMG?

Funny that you start your little diatribe with an OMG. And promoting liberty? "where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." 2 Cor. 3:17

No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul

Religion is a Belief system. it is what you Believe in.

does that help?