47 votes

Will Ron Paul Strive to Become a Third Party Loser or a Republican Winner?

The year is not 1912 when three serious candidates ran in the general election for the White House. The year is 2012 when simply getting on the ballot is enough for third parties to cheer.

I’m not the partisan type and the weak "success" of simply getting Ron Paul on the ballot won’t be enough for me to even break a smile this autumn. I want to see Ron Paul in the White House. That will be success.

When I look my children in the eye and tell them the history of the revolution, the minor victory of ballot access for Ron Paul will not be mentioned. Ballot access is an important fight. It's a step in the right direction. But right now in the spring of 2012 with Rick Santorum leaving the race, we are confronted with a choice. Will we Ron Paul supporters continue to take over one of the two major parties, or will we settle for a third party run?

Here’s a Brief Checklist of How a 3rd Party Run Will Look:
* Continuing the trend of poor media mention
* Getting blamed for four more years of Obama
* Helping to build the base of a third party
* Reducing fundraising potential
* Increasing talk of "unelectability"
* Losing some significant percentage of Republican partisan support, gaining of minimal support in return
* Getting a percentage (maybe 5 or 10%) of dissatisfied voters on top of the nonpartisan Ron Paul base
* Having the opportunity to teach a lesson to the Republican establishment that the Republican establishment is not bright enough to listen to – "If you don’t make room for us in the GOP, we will take a victory from you any time we want."

There are good and bad aspects to a third party run, but the only reason to bring up a third party run for Ron Paul for the White House in 2012 is if you've resolved to lose. That’s the sad fact of national politics in America in the year 2012. And the only way you've resolved to lose is if you are not following accurate delegate counts. Accurate delegate counts acknowledge that very few delegates have been decided. Iowa, for example, was not decided on January 3 and will not be decided until June 16.

Additionally, if one has resolved to lose then that person probably isn’t paying attention to what is happening at local Republican parties in state-after-state. The party insiders are losing their own party. Ron Paul supporters have become so strong in some state Republican parties that it is very unlikely that Mitt Romney will get much more than lukewarm help from his own party.

We are not even 15 weeks into a 9 month primary process. By the end of this weekend, only four states out of the 50 will have held some form of state convention (North Dakota, Wyoming, Tennessee, and Colorado) – something that not every state will have, but that most will. This process has barely begun. Right now, while we are in the thick of a fight, now is not the time to give in.

What it is the right time to do is to turn off that depressing television that never mentions Ron Paul, to stop your subscription to that depressing paper, and to instead spend your time and money bolstering that lone man carrying the message of truth to the people across the country. If your state hasn’t voted yet (which is the case for 48.9% of Americans) then you should vow to recruit 10 voters to join you in voting for Ron Paul. If your state has voted already, then stay involved with the process. Get involved with the Republican Party, try to become a delegate and dig deep in giving to Ron Paul’s campaign in his April 15 money bomb. Importantly and often forgotten – get out there to motivate other Ron Paul supporters to do exactly the same thing. We are in the early stages of this year’s primary fight and now is not the time to give up on that fight.

The only effect of resolving to lose is that you hand victory to your opponent. I'm not just saying we should make the opponent work for it. I'm saying WE CAN WIN THIS.

Here's a Brief Checklist of How a GOP Run for Ron Paul Will Look:
* Ron Paul becomes the man who must be debated by the President.
* Ron Paul becomes the man who can and will hold Obama’s feet to the fire in those debates.
* Ron Paul becomes the only alternative to Obama.
* Ron Paul inspires, which will make him not just an "anybody but" candidate. "Anybody but" candidates, after all, have a very high rate of failure - 100%.
* Ron Paul becomes the candidate who takes from Obama's own base and who wins the independent vote; this nearly guarantees a presidential victory against Obama one-on-one.
* Ron Paul becomes the man who has the leverage to inspire a national debate, a national discussion between neighbors.
* Ron Paul has the potential to win the presidency and secure control of the GOP from the statist neo-cons for at least a generation.
* Ron Paul has the potential to grow and consolidate an organized anti-war movement within a party.

I mean seriously, there's no contest between which of these two options is better – 3rd party run or GOP run. Of course, one is much harder than the other, but the rewards are so much more meaningful in the harder contest. A year ago the mainstream media distracted from the important issues by insisting it knew who the front runner was - Pawlenty, Bachman, Perry. Who were they kidding?

You can fault them, the media, for weakening our movement if you choose(I don't), but by that same logic you should also fault anyone who has spent the last year talking about a Ron Paul third party run whether that person saw themselves as an enemy of Paul's or a friend. A third party run helps that third party, but from where I stand in April of 2012 it weakens our movement.

Our candidate is the finest thinker among any American politician living today. He deserves the publicity of being mainstream and prime time. That's not what third party will offer us. We must not abandon an opportunity for success.

Mitt Romney doesn't have the delegates today, and I don't think Romney will get the delegates, but that relies on those of us in the liberty movement who want to see a win. Ron Paul’s victory, our victory, is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If we want it, we will work hard for it and will work effectively for it. If we work hard and effectively for it, we will get it.

We are Ron Paul's secret weapon. Twenty states and 1,047 delegates worth of process have yet to start. Few delegates have been decided out of the 2,286 total. It's looking increasingly likely that Iowa will be a monstrous Ron Paul victory - our most formidable competitor in that state just left the race. Despite what happened in the caucuses on January 3, Iowa has yet to have a state convention (again June 16, 2012 is the scheduled date), which means Iowa has not yet been "won" by anyone. At state conventions the mandatory delegate bindings can be unbound. Maine, Nevada, Colorado, and many others might look exactly the same – strongly in favor of Ron Paul. What will the GOP do when thousands of us show up at Tampa to insist that the voices of our thousand Ron Paul delegates be heard?

What should the plan for us grassroots supporters be at this point? For each one of us who wants a Ron Paul win to redouble our efforts.

Make sure you get ten friends out to vote, donate to the campaign, read posts and books that talk about ways to work more effectively on behalf of liberty – then get out and do those things.

You and I are Ron Paul's secret weapon. Without us he ends up being just another politician trying to talk over the din of the media. With us he can speak through us to our friends. With us his message reaches people it never would have otherwise.

What should the strategy of the official campaign be at this point? To me that's irrelevant. Winning the White House is up to us, and if we push forward for Ron Paul he’ll be the next president of the U.S. whether he likes it or not. Not the media, not the party insiders, not a single person can stop us from making Ron Paul the President if we each resolve to make that happen.

Allan Stevo is author of How to Win America for Ron Paul and the Cause of Freedom in 2012. The book can be downloaded by readers of the Daily Paul here free of charge.

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I think he'd actually stand a

I think he'd actually stand a chance if he ran third party. I don't know why someone with his right wing political beliefs would be running for the nomination of a party that's to the left of the Democrats.

Ron Paul says

NO! NO Third party. Is this a troll's made up story? So fight on for the win. He can win. A turn of events and he can win. picture it.

Keepin' it real.

All you naysayers

have Ron Paul losing before the election is over. Oh thee of little faith. Ron lost the Iowa straw poll by 2 votes! Ron Paul can win. wait and see. no one really knows the exact number of delegates he and oromney have. Stay positive. Stop saying he lost before he actually lost. Makes it sound like troll language.

Keepin' it real.

no..but we know the number of

no..but we know the number of BOUND delegates that Romney has, and how many he will DEFINITELY get from now until the end of June...and that total is well over 1144.

so..if you are happy to have a bunch of Ron Paul supporters voting for Romney, then so be it. And by the way...Ron Paul DOESN'T have that many stealth supporters disguised as Romney delegates. At BEST he has taken some of Santorum. But Romney has been 2 steps ahead of Ron Paul's campaign all the way, HE knows every single delegate. Meanwhile, Paul DOESN'T. He just takes the word of anyone who e-mails the campaign saying they are a delegate for him. When in fact, there are SEVERAL people who are Romney supporters that Ron Paul himself THINKS are Ron Paul delegates.

It is just amazing that you really think that they weren't going to fight fire with fire.


Excellent commentary and pep speech. I only hope people are willing to listen, stand up and fight for this victory. I truly believe that there are higher powers at work in this and that whenever a terrible evil has come up in power, God gives us a way out. That way is Dr Paul. This country (and the people) are doomed if he isn't our next president. It is clear that Obama (the Traitor) has plans to completely destroy this country. All he is waiting for is another election victory. Once he gets this, I don't believe this country has a chance. This is why we MUST NEVER GIVE UP! We ARE winning! We have made fools of the MSM and now they are paying the price. CNN was down -50% in total viewers in the month of March. I believe there is a great chance of winning the GOP.. My biggest concern is how we are to stop the cheating that we know will take place? Why work so hard to win the GOP and then "trust" the other side not to cheat.. I hope Ron Paul has some very good brains working on this problem..
We are at the breaking point here in America and there will be no help to be found if Dr Paul is eliminated from the race, no one at all.. We cannot afford a defeat.. It may be the last chance we have, and if we fail, may God help us all.


by James Jaeger

The fact that Ron Paul effectively tied for second place in IOWA -- a very conservative state -- and then won second place in NEW HAMPSHIRE -- a much more liberal state, shows the enormous spectrum of Dr. Paul's appeal.

For the Republicans (the GOP) this must be quite uncomfortable -- the idea that they are being forced to modify some of their wayward views just because a principled, constitutionalist and WE THE PEOPLE demand it.

But here's what really terrifies them: Ron Paul is not only in a position to hand the election of 2012 over to Barack Obama and be labled a "spoiler" -- he's in a position to be a "winner."

Etymology of the term "spoiler":

The term "spoiler" is a derogatory term that was dreamt up by statists in the Democratic and Republican parties. They use this term to make you feel guilty and to sucker the public into continuously voting for no one outside the Establishment. In other words, if you vote your conscience, YOU are a "spoiler." If you run for office on principles dictated by your conscience and take votes away from an Establishment candidate, YOU are a "spoiler."

Thus, since Ron Paul votes his conscience, since he rejects certain aspects of the Establishment -- such as the Federal Reserve's abuse of the monetary system and its financing of the welfare-warfare empire we have now become -- there is no way apparatchiks in the GOP will nominate Dr. Paul no matter what WE THE PEOPLE want.

And to this end, lackey pundits in the CFR-dominated, mainstream media continuously chant that Ron Paul has "no chance to get the Republican nomination." They spew this so often, it's obvious they don't believe their own lies.

But here's the joker: Ron Paul does not even need the GOP to win the general election. If he were to walk away for a third party, he would take at least 12% of the Republican vote with him. He would also take another 15% from the Independents and at least 11% from the Democrats. This would give him 38% -- enough of the vote to win the Presidency in a 3-man race.

GOP strategists know all this and this is why you will never hear them utter these statistics in the mainstream media. If the public were to become too "hopeful" -- if they were to understand the mathematics of the situation -- even more people would vote for Ron Paul if for no other reason than to be on the winner's bandwagon.

So, the GOP has some serious choices to make.

Either they morph into a small-government party and support the Ron Paul Revolution of "getting back to the Constitution," or they risk loosing their power to a new political party. And a new political would not only mean just the demise of the Republican party, but the Democratic party as well.

Since the Democratic Party AND the Republican Parties are BOTH the parties of BIG government, a new political party of SMALL government would reveal to the public more than ever, what the two mainstream parties have become.

The two mainstream parties -- the Democrats and Republicans -- have become, in essence, two departments of the same police state. They are the same political party in effect: growing the government ever larger and ever more militaristic, both domestically and internationally. The PATRIOT Act expands the police state domestically, and the UN, IMF, WTO, NAFTA, GATT and NATO -- which they BOTH continuously and blindly support -- expand the police state internationally.

Due to serious abridgements of the U.S. Constitution and principles stated in the Declaration of Independence, the united States are now run by a dictating oligarchy known as the UNITED STATES. And this dictating oligarchy is dominated by cultural Marxists and corporate fascists who have hijacked the Democratic and Republican parties, respectively.

The "DemoPublicans" have established the Department of Homeland Security for the purpose of administering their police state and the PATRIOT Act has become their new Constitution.

If you accept the idea that the Democrats and Republicans (again the "DemoPublicans") have become two departments of the same police state -- two wings of the same ugly bird -- you will have to accept that ultimately it does not matter whether a Democrat or Republican is elected to the presidency. It does not matter if Obama or Romney is elected President. Establishment politicians in either of these "two" parties will continue to use the Federal Reserve System to monetize debt (print money out of thin air) and use this fraudulent "fiat" currency to build their welfare-warfare state.

It could be said that Republicans specialize in printing money to build weapons and wage wars -- Democrats specialize in printing money to address the sick and the poor. The Republicans thus CREATE the sick and the poor with their WAR-fare policies and the Democrats HEAL the sick and the poor with their WELL-fare policies.

Thus when an entity controls the HEALING and HURTING of Humankind, doesn't that entity, in essence, CONTROL Human kind? Well, welcome to the DemoPublican control mechanism -- something you might think about the next time you vote or mindlessly scream out for your Clinton-, Bush-, Obama-, Gingrich- or Romney-candidate.

Taken as a whole, the DemoPublican machine -- now assembled more by supra-national, international banking families than American citizens -- has destroyed U.S. politics that used to center on Constitutional principles. Controllers in this CFR-led embryonic world government have created a well-oiled machine to maximize the plunder of millions, if not billions of people, through the mechanism of central banking, debt and the hurting-healing cycle. Would it not be reasonable to posit that the Democratic and Republican Parties are thus primary tools in what seems to be a master plan of globalization?

Ron Paul -- a strict limited-government Constitutionalist with an appreciation for ethnonationalism -- does not fit in with the New World Order's management plans. Therefore, whenever he wins ANYTHING: the DemoPublican controllers have a more serious problem.

Where Dr. Paul to ever get close to a GOP nomination, they would most likely either rig the elections or blackmail him by threatening his family, like they did when Ross Perot was getting too popular.

But if Dr. Paul walks away from the GOP to go Indy, in reality he will "spoil" nothing, for as discussed above, the Democrats and Republicans are the same political party in effect, so there is nothing that CAN be "spoiled".

Since the DemoPublicans must continue the cockfight between them -- so the illusion that they are "different" parties can be maintained -- this fighting has been, of necessity, escalating to a GRIDLOCK. Note the endless fighting about extending payroll tax cuts, Obamacare and illegal immigration, and now Santorum is bringing religion and race into it. Thus, even if Ron Paul is labeled a "spoiler" -- for thwarting the Establishment controller's plan to get one of their cultural Marxist or corporate fascist puppets nominated or elected -- he will spoil nothing.




Message More Important Than Party:

Undoubtedly Ron Paul hopes his cause will be able to save the Republican Party, but surely he believes the greater cause is to save the country. For many the idea of reforming the Republican Party is a glorious dream -- but for many more, it's a pipe dream.

And the reason for this is simple. Ron Paul's vision comes from the U.S. Constitution, a document that the GOP establishment wandered away from decades ago.

Thus, if Ron Paul is really serious about change, he probably knows that the VEHICLE he uses to deliver that change is not that important. His Constitutional VISION is more important than the PARTY that delivers it.

Thus the GOP is right to fear that Dr. Paul may "quit the party when the primaries are over and run as a third-party candidate on the Libertarian or some other line in the November election" as political analyst and author of Suicide of a Superpower, Patrick J. Buchanan, observes.(1)

This fear was also expressed by Reagan campaign strategist, Ed Rollins, when he said that "Ron Paul should be given the respect he deserves."

Buchanan feels, however that it is assured that Dr. Paul will not go third party. This is "not going to happen. Such a decision would sunder the movement Paul has pulled together, bring about his own and his party's certain defeat in November, and re-elect Barack Obama," says Buchanan.

But if Paul does NOT go third party, his life's work may NOT culminate.

Whether one agrees or disagrees with this statement depends on their philosophy of the GOP. If ones philosophy is that a tiger can change its stripes -- that the GOP will somehow become the party of small government -- then perhaps it makes sense for Dr. Paul to stick it out and be loyal. But is that really going to happen?

As evidenced by the current $15 trillion national debt, the Republican Party has become a big-government party similar to the Democratic party. This has happened on the watch of both parties. Both political parties are taking us down the "road to serfdom," as F.A. Hayek might say. And the reason for this is the endless fiat money being issued by the Federal Reserve System (as we discuss in FIAT EMPIRE at http://youtu.be/5K41O2QfpjA ). Fiat currency funds the welfare state the Democrats want and the warfare state the Republicans want.

Again, neither major political party talks about this, or fiat money. Only Ron Paul talks about fiat money.

If the Democrats and Republicans won't confront fiat money by discussing it, let alone by auditing and/or ending the Fed, THEN HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT EITHER PARTY WILL EVER BECOME A SMALL GOVERNMENT PARTY?

These two parties will thus destroy the dollar and eventually the U.S. as an industrial nation opening it up even more to the ravages of the PATRIOT Act mentality who value "security" more than freedom OR productivity. If this happens: THIS will be Ron Paul's legacy, a coward that failed to go for the golden ring at a time when it could have made all the difference to millions.

The "movement Paul has pulled together" is unique in our times. It is nothing less than a revolution, and that's why it's called THE RON PAUL REVOLUTION. And contrary to Counsel on Foreign Relations propaganda, this revolution was the impetus for the Tea Party movement, a movement which now seems to have been co-opted and neutered by the GOP establishment.


The GOP is NOT Ron Paul's friend:

The GOP has never REALLY been Ron Paul's friend, nor will it ever be -- unless the unthinkable happens, RON PAUL GETS CO-OPTED BY THE GOP ESTABLISHMENT ITSELF. His supporters, of course, know this would never happen. In fact many observes think the GOP is only now pretending to be Ron Paul's friend because he has them backed into a political corner. And the Ron Paul butt-kissing is all over the mainstream media to prove it. But none of this is sincere. Remember the days in the Winter of 2008 when Ron Paul was winning one FOX poll after another and Sean Hannity, a perfect GOP specimen, was practically spitting bullets? In fact, Hannity was so arrogant and disparaging to Dr. Paul, his fans practically tackled the super-pundit when he was leaving his building one evening on 7 Jan 2008. See angry Ron Paul fans screaming at Hannity in the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5rJI5e0jBU if you have forgotten the days when the GOP was showing its real colors to the Fed-slaying political messiah.

And let's not forget the disrespect GOP-hopeful, Rudy Giuliani, showed for Dr. Paul when, in the 15 May 2007 debate, he mocked him before the world for stating that "the terrorists are over here because we are over there," an observation first made by Pat Buchanan. See this debate at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD7dnFDdwu0 if your memory of the GOP needs refreshing.

But don't believe me, that the GOP once spat upon Ron Paul -- Ed Rollins confirmed this treatment when he stated: "They didn't treat him well, four years ago, when he (Ron Paul) stayed in the race to the bitter end." See video of Ed stating this at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7JArNMd20

So today -- as evidence that self-sufficiency makes stronger individuals than the nanny state makes the collective -- the growth of the Libertarian-conservative RON PAUL REVOLUTION, again, shows that Dr. Paul does not even NEED the GOP to win a general election for if he were to walk away for a third party in July, he would take at least 12% of the Republican vote, another 15% from the Independents and at least 11% from the Democrats. This would give him 38% -- enough to WIN the presidency in a 3-man race.

Another reason one can be assured GOP pundits are terrified by a Ron Paul third party run is because they are desperately attempting to get him to commit to NOT running. Witness Sean Hannity trying to get a commitment from Dr. to NOT go third party at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3p9s1cSzko

But, even if Ron Paul did walk away from the GOP he would not BECOME a pariah in his party, he already IS a pariah in his party. He always has been and he always will be. Those who watched Ron Paul argue with Alan Greenspan on C-SPAN back in the mid-1990s know Ron Paul is also a pariah with the Federal Reserve System. That, in fact, is how I discovered Ron Paul and interviewed him for the documentary film, FIAT EMPIRE -- Why the Federal Reserve Violates the U.S. Constitution. At that time, there were no other congressmen arguing with Dr. Greenspan. There were not even any other congressmen that COULD argue with Dr. Greenspan. Only Ron Paul could because he not only understands economics, he understands the difference between Austrian economics and the Keynesian economics that is now burying the nation -- and WORLD -- in debt! This is why THE RON PAUL REVOLUTION runs philosophically deep.

This is why Dr. Paul has been able to be consistent and why he has consistently stated that he cannot endorse any of the other GOP candidates and he doesn't see how he could possibly run on a ticket with any of them due to differences in principle. How could Ron Paul double up with someone that doesn't understand the difference between Austrian and Keynesian economics? How could Ron Paul double up with or support someone that doesn't even know what fiat money is or what Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution states? How could Ron Paul support someone that has no idea where Congress gets most of its money? Dr. Paul, as a true Constitutionalist, knows all of these things. The others are ignoramuses who just give the Constitution and economics lip-service.

A Third Party Run's Effect on Rand Paul:

Some have argued that, were Dr. Paul to run as a third party candidate, his son, Senator Rand Paul, would be forced to endorse his father and essentially abandon the GOP. Rand Paul's career with the GOP would thus be ruined.

Actually, whether Rand Paul endorses his father or not is no ones business except Rand Paul's and it's not even relevant to THE RON PAUL REVOLUTION.

As great as it may be for a father to have a son follow in his footsteps, there are times when a greater concern outweighs family goals. If Rand Paul truly understands the importance of his father's work, he will gladly support anything he does without personal concern. On the other hand, if Rand Paul would rather stay loyal to the GOP, that's his prerogative. No rational person would stigmatize Rand Paul just because he made a different choice from his father.

But the greater question -- given the great promise Rand Paul has so far demonstrated -- is why would he even WANT to be a "future Republican leader" in a political party that was bringing the nation to ruin? With its profligate spending; empire-building ploys; debt-monetizing insanity, why would Rand Paul want to run the risk of becoming but a footnote in history by swimming counter to the currents of THE RON PAUL REVOLUTION?

Given the fact that the youth of the nation are endorsing THE RON PAUL REVOLUTION of small government, ending the Fed and an end to perpetual wars, the future of the GOP -- which is against all these things -- is NOT bright at all. In fact, the GOP, and the Democrats, are doomed. Like the sinking Titanic, all Republicans have been doing this past 30 years is re-arranging the deckchairs while the panem et circenses band plays on.

It is true that Ron Paul would be wise to stay with the GOP up until the last minute so he can maintain his media presence, but the very fact that he has to even DO this should tell us all something about the mainstream media. And that something is the fact that, like the GOP, the mainstream media is NOT any friend of Ron Paul or even of WE THE PEOPLE. So long as it endlessly consolidates and places its corporate advertisers' interests above the public concerns, the mainstream media is a liability to a democratic market of ideas. Unfortunately, Ron Paul, a libertarian at heart, has been forced to operate on this media's stage in order to get any play at all. Had Dr. Paul gone third party four years ago, he would have received almost no exposure and few today would know very much about his message. Note what happened to third party candidates, such as Ralph Nader, Harry Brown and Gary Johnson, etc. The exception was the multi-billionaire, Ross Perot, who got mainstream play ONLY because he self-financed his own media campaign.

Ron Paul started and represents a major populist CAUSE that millions endorse, yet the mainstream media still pushes the other candidates who just support the horse race for the status quo.

It is thus impossible for the GOP to "grow up" or change because it is locked into this competition with the Democratic Party. If the GOP stops with its program of handouts and entitlements, the public will always place Democrats in to power. This is the dilemma for the GOP and why no reform is possible, as we more fully discuss in the movie "SPOILER - How a Third Political Party Could Win." See http://www.SpoilerUSA.org

Even still, Ron Paul giving his commitment to support the GOP is what apologists for the GOP want. But if Ron Paul does this, he will have compromised his principles. Even if the GOP promises to change its ways, many will have serious doubts they will keep their promise.

The GOP and the DEMS have had their chance. They have both brought the country to the verge of bankruptcy and totalitarianism over the past 98 years. They will never reform or be able to BE reformed. No placation-speech -- allotted to Ron Paul at the Republican National Convention -- is going to reform either entrenched party or rescind the PATRIOT Act. The ONLY possibility for reform will come if Dr. Paul goes Indy sometime after the GOP selects its CFR-approved, status-quo nominee. In going Indy, the only risk is that Dr. Paul might not get 38%, hence the presidency. If this happens then Obama DOES get back in; but again, so what! Only blind partisans -- or people that don't quite grok the fact that both parties are identical in effect -- will be concerned about this. Mitt Romney can NEVER be Ron Paul's friend. Mitt Romney is a corporate fascist, as we define in the movie, CORPORATE FASCISM at http://youtu.be/hTbvoiTJKIs. He has depended on the bogus, artificial interest rates afforded by fiat money for every major business venture he has ever been involved with. Mitt Romney would NEVER end the Fed because the Fed is what butters his bread. It is doubtful if he would ever even AUDIT the Fed. Same goes for Gingrich and Santorum. Both these guys are big government guys, especially Santorum who will expand the military-industrial complex to the high heavens.

Constitutional Constituency Trumps Party Constituency:

Ron Paul's constituency is NOT unipolar. Ron Paul's constituency falls ACROSS the political spectrum as it well should. People who want smaller government, who want to audit the fed; reduce the debt; get out of foreign wars and rebuild the middle class are NOT only in the GOP, they are also in the Democratic party, but mostly Independents. They are the youth and people in the military. At least 38% of the people in the country WANT Ron Paul and only 12% of these come from the GOP. Thus, Ron Paul is actually BIGGER than the GOP. THE RON PAUL REVOLUTION supersedes the GOP and any particular faction. That's why what's happening is so special and why WE THE PEOPLE sometimes have difficulty understanding the magnitude of these events.


Ron Paul's most salient issues: auditing the Fed and eventually ending the fiat-currency fraud; downsizing of the U.S. empire; closing many or most of the 900 military bases in 130 countries; and establishing a mind-our-own-business foreign policy will never happen in the business-as-usual GOP or welfare state-crazed Democratic Party.

Thus, if Dr. Paul fails to use the power he has at this critical moment in history he will never have it again, nor will anyone else for a long time. The mainstream media is substantially bought and paid for by the entrenched parties. You can bet the Washington establishment and the K-street corporate fascists that have hijacked Congress, once the race is over, all will turn on Dr. Paul and make him as much of a non-person as the J.P. Morgan/Thomas Edison Establishment of the day turned on Nikola Tesla and literally erased him from the front page of TIME.




Again, since Dr. Paul's constituency is supra GOP -- even if he defects from the GOP and fails at a presidential run -- he will only estrange the people in the GOP that are stuck in the partisan game of Democrats vs. Republicans. In other words, he will only estrange the "spoiler mentality." More and more of the country, as witnessed by the growth of the Independents, now recognize that BOTH political parties are wings of the same ugly bird. These people are the future. Ron Paul AND Rand Paul should be more concerned about these people than propitiating to the GOP establishment for a token speech or career some advancement.

The fact that Ron Paul has an investment portfolio with 21% in real-estate, 14% in cash and about 65% gold should be absolute proof that Dr. Paul believes the fiat financial system is doomed. He is thus more than a prophet, he is leading the way out. This leadership takes rank over any other consideration.

Eric Hoffer wrote a book entitled, THE TRUE BELIEVER: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements. In this work, Hoffer maintains that revolutions are usually accomplished with only a small percentage of a population - between 1% and 7%. The vast majority are inert. If Hoffer's observations are correct, THE RON PAUL REVOLUTION has, or will shortly have, more than enough supporters to make its CAUSE quite real.


The term "spoiler" is used by two groups of people:

1) the ignorant or IQ-challenged person who knows little or nothing about politics or the art of war, and;

2) the statist propaganda-merchant who is trying to give the public the illusion that there is a "difference" between the Democratic and Republican Parties.

The reason the statist propaganda-merchant is trying to perpetuate the meme that there is a difference between the two major parties is so the general public will not look elsewhere for the solution to their problems. If one can get the Democrats and Republicans fighting with each other, it gives the illusion that they are "different" to the degree they "fight." Indeed they DO have "differences", however the differences are over trivial issues. On all the major issues the Democrats and Republican's are identical, overtly and covertly, thus they are the same political party in effect. You saw how many of Bush's policies Obama kept in place when he came into office ostensibly to "change" things. The same thing will happen if the Republicans take back the White House, ad infinitum.

So this is why Ron Paul is such a threat to the Establishment. He's running on the GOP ticket basically so he can get mainstream media exposure. The mainstream tried to ignore him in the last election. Remember how Hannity practically spat on Dr. Paul in the 2008 election? Remember how all the other pundits treated him? Then, when he suddenly raised millions of dollars with his "money bombs" and millions of voters started joining the grassroots Ron Paul Revolution -- which kicked off the Tea Party Revolution -- it wasn't "politically correct" to spit on him any longer. Worse, they couldn't ignore him into oblivion like they ignored all other dissenting candidates. Third party candidate Ross Perot was only able to get mainstream media exposure because he purchased it with his personal wealth. Ralph Nader nor Harry Brown, on the other hand, have been able to purchase such exposure, thus they have never been able to get an alternative vision into the public domain.

For Ron Paul to win and use the vote to destroy the cultural Marxist-infested, totalitarian fiat empire, being built by controllers of the "liberal world order" is incomprehensible to them even though Pat Buchanan details in his new book,Suicide of a Superpower, the reasons why the moment of globalism and "free" trade has passed.

But such is the power of the zeitgeist, for the world is in revolt, from the Middle East to Wall Street. The 99-percent don't know exactly HOW they have been screwed, but they do know that they HAVE been screwed -- at least for the past 100 years. From the Tea Partiers to the Wall Street Occupiers in America, WE THE PEOPLE are fed up with:

1) a Congress that has been bought and sold by corporate fascists;

2) Presidents that start wars and act like Marxist dictators;

3) an activist Supreme Court that legislates from the bench making one-size fits all laws that ignore the original intent of the Founders.

WE THE PEOPLE are fed up with many other things, but both the "Right" and the "Left" can agree with much of what Ron Paul offers, because his principles are American principles, and American principles are Constitutional Principles which accommodate both liberals and conservatives, Left or Right.

So don't let CFR-infested, establishment propaganda spewed through the mainstream media or the DemoPublican police state dissuade you from voting for Ron Paul, whether he stays on the GOP ticket, goes Independent or starts a new party.

It is vital that all Americans stay true to their conscious, NOT their political parties. The U.S. Constitution does not even mention political parties; in fact many of the Founders warned us against them. The Founders called political parties "factions" and said that membership in them is dangerous to a democratic form of government. They warned us to stay away from entrenched political parties -- such as the Democrats and Republicans -- because entrenched political parties are only one step away from dictatorships. The Founders also warned us about entrenched politicians, and this is why no presidents ran for more than two terms up until the Grant presidency.

It is not too late to act. Vote out the incumbent congressmen, president and most of all, the incumbent DemoPublican political party. Vote in Ron Paul no matter what scare tactics the pundits on CNN, FOX NEWS or MSNBC proselytize with. Ron Paul CAN get 38% of the vote and win the presidency. This is not an opinion, it's mathematical fact.


(1) "The True Believer" by Patrick J. Buchanan http://www.lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan208.html

Originated: 21 February 2011
Updates & Consolidates: Why Ron Paul Can Win
Updates & Consolidates: Why Ron Paul Can Win - Additional Considerations

Will Vote Ron Paul or Gary Johnson - Libertarian Party Candidate

I agree completely with you James. Thank you for an excellent essay, well written and thoughtful. Ron Paul should run as a third party candidate. The Libertarian Party would be glad to nominate him and they have ballot access in 50 states. If Ron Paul decides not to run then I will be supporting the Libertarian Party's candidate, likely to be Gary Johnson. The LP's National Convention will be held the first week in May in Las Vegas.

It does not need to be "either / or"

Ron Paul can finish the GOP run. If he does not get that nomination, he can be drafted as the "Americans Elect" candidate and still run third party. This does not ensure him victory, but it does keep his voice and message in it through November, and it gives him another chance at the Presidency. He is the top choice at http://www.americanselect.org/ by a large margin. He will have the option to run third party with Americans Elect if we are unable to win the nomination. Check out this article by Justin Rainmondo for more. I think his logic is more sound than what has been presented above:


Thank you.

Stiff Necked

I was a district delegate and logged in forty hours of phone campaigning for Ron Paul.

There is hardened faction within the party. Their minds are closed and sealed by a self a justifying motive. They must continually reassure themselves that the neocon wars and nation building are right.

For this reason, Dr Paul needs to expand outward where minds are open on this issue. Third party is therefore the only possibility.

Watch "Spoiler". Contact Dr Paul's campaign now. Very little time remains.

Third Party Run is Only Viable Way

You are absolutely correct, Lefttown. People who think the Wall Street-, military-industrial complex-, CFR- AIPAC-driven GOP is going to allow Ron Paul to become their nomination are delusional.

Watch my recent film, "SPOiLER - How a Third Political Party Could Win" and read the article, HOW RON PAUL CAN WIN & SPOIL NOTHING at http://www.jaegerresearchinstitute.org/articles/ronpaul3.htm

The 2-hour version of SPOILER is on YouTube at http://youtu.be/GbF5loRF61U and the 1-hour version is at http://youtu.be/UHQj9wtW3nA

An extended trailer of SPOILER is at http://youtu.be/4TkHCJpgg8Y and if you want a DVD, you can get them at the official website at http://www.SpoilerUSA.org

SPOiLER explores the political, economic and philosophic ethos of the past 98 years for clues into the expanding debt-driven, welfare-warfare state and ways Americans can get back to a constitutional republic. Analyzing the reasons no third party has been successful since John C. Fremont and Abraham Lincoln established the Republican Party around 1860, SPOiLER offers a platform -- based on the political strategies of Nelson Hultberg -- that could inspire an existing, or new, third party to win, thus bringing the DemoPublican monopoly to an end.

SPOILER was produced by Edwin Vieira & Henrietta Jaeger
Written & Directed by James Jaeger

CHUCK BALDWIN, Radio Host-Pastor
PAT BUCHANAN, Author/Political Analyst
G. EDWARD GRIFFIN, Author/Producer
NELSON HULTBERG, Political Strategist
PETER LILLBACK, Author/Theologian
JOHN McMANUS, President John Birch Society
EDWIN VIEIRA, Author/Constitutional Attorney
JOHN WILLIAMS, Economist-Statistician

Guest Appearances:
JACK ROONEY, Senatorial Candidate
RON PAUL, Congressman/Presidential Candidate

Let's get this fact in...

Waiting until the GOP convention is over to go third party or independent will not work. There are deadlines in each state for filing as an independent or third party. Most deadlines are before the GOP convention: http://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/2012/04/deadlines...

Paradigm Shift

If he does not get the nomination the third party option is the only choice. He is the only candidate who will make real change.

Today’s challenges bring to mind JFK’s prophetic words of truth in his attempts to End The Fed, stop the war in SE Asia and battle organized crime;

“A revolution is coming – a revolution which will be peaceful if we are wise enough, compassionate if we care enough, successful if we are fortunate enough – but a revolution is coming whether we will it or not. We can affect its character, we cannot alter its inevitability.” – JFK

It is really very simple; those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.

“This is not a question of party loyalty, but a great fundamental principle of freedom, justice and humanity, a tenet of truth, law and legal right which is sought to be tampered with, and down-trod.” – Colonel Charles V. DeLand, February 8, 1854 – A Principle founder of the then 'new' Republican Party (the last time a new outlook replaced a major party).

Please See: Mitt Romney Is Totally Unelectable! Vote Ron Paul 2012!


Inflection Point -

Sign Now

You might want to sign the third party petition: rp2012.org.

Let the Paul campaign know we need a concurrent run, before the option expires.

Stop wasing time talking about a third party

Should Ron Paul run a third party campaign? Absolutely not! The most frequent argument I see for a third party run is corruption within the GOP. So what is new? You think that if you run third party you will not have to fight corruption? You think that if the fight is too hard to win the nomination as a Republican that it will be easier to win as an outsider? It is magnitudes of order easier to take over the GOP than to start from scratch. Those who want to stand for liberty need to take over the party instead of standing outside complaining about it. The fact is, if you’re not capable of taking over the GOP, you will never succeed in taking over the country. Liberty will succeed if you fight for it. First, fight for it within the GOP. Think of it as practice. Then we will take back the country.

Let's be real TD

Do you really believe that Ron Paul will win a majority of the delegates? I don't think that anyone seriously believes Ron Paul will get even a plurality of delegates. Tell us what you think will happen.

My guess is you, along with most who are advocating this strategy, believe that Ron Paul will finish second in the delegate count and that Romney will fall short of a majority. That's a doable and maybe even likely outcome. His campaign should be commended for this outcome and if they manage to bring a plurality of delegates to the convention, they will make history.

What you are assuming is that if Ron Paul drops out of the race and runs independent or third party, his supporters will no longer try to get elected as delegates and local and state party officials. Is there a rule that says once a candidate suspends or ends his campaign, he can no longer have any of his supporters run to become a delegate?

The two strategies need not be mutually exclusive. Ron Paul can decide to run as an independent now and get his name on all ballots. While he does this, there is nothing to prevent his supporters from continuing their quest to vote for him in the primaries and pursue opportunities to become delegates and leaders at local, state and national levels.

Ron Paul will not be the GOP nominee. However, he can still be in the general election debates and his supporters can still try to take over the Republican party.

Join the GOP and be Co-opted

Joing the GOP and they own your soul.

Ron Paul people have taken over

almost half of the GOP in Minnesota, besides winning the majority of the delegate so far. Are we to say they will be corrupted if they are in the majority. I think taking over the GOP and kicking the neo-cons out is better, than running third party.

Surviving the killing fields of Minnesota

Todays brainwashing: GMO's are safe

Not joining the GOP and they own your soul

being an Indy means you have no representation, you're waiting for a NWO to make you a number.

Joining the GOp means you join with thousands of Ron Paul Republicans who are taking the Republican Party back from the RINOS and Restoring the Republic.

JOIN US or get your soul owned by others who don't care about you.

One thing Ron Paul has never been

He has never been delusional. The GOP nominee will be Romney. Ron Paul can win as a third party candidate because the GOP is completely not behind Romney and Obama has a terrible track record with his base on civil liberties and war and with the average voter due to his abysmal handling of the economy.

This talk of winning a brokered convention is preposterous. Not going to happen. It's third party or nothing.

I do think that the Republican national convention would be a great place to shock everyone by announcing his third party run. That is, as someone commented on my other post, the nuclear option.

Time to go nuclear folks.

I agree whole heartedly, a Paul-ized GOP should be the goal.

I'll take it a step further: Even if we lose!

The biggest argument for the third party approach (officially or informally) is that we'll not get the nomination. I don't think we will . Now, I'm not a naysayer - I will be voting for Dr. Ron Paul, and supporting him as a delegate (at least at the local level). Still, I think it's unlikely he's the nominee now.

Well, Reagan wasn't in 1976, and Goldwater won the nomination only to lose. Ron Paul already ran 3rd party in 1988 - where have his results been more plentiful?! Paul plays a "long game". I believe he's said as much before.

Remember the cheating in Iowa? What happened? Chair was dumped and replaced with a more Pro-Paul chair! Does that help us today? No. Does it matter? Sure!

What about Maine? Look at the organization in a state that has been quite Democratic, but was one of the few states to reject the New Deal during all those FDR runs when most states flipped Democratic. Charlie Webster had to resort to "spam folder" excuses. This was in Mitt's backyard! This was in George H. W. Bush's state! This was in Olympia Snowe's state. We will likely win the majority of delegates, and so win the state, and we might have won the popular vote without the shenanigans! See: RESULTS!

But maybe not enough results. Maybe Romney - my 2nd choice (just admitting bias) wins, and we get minimum wage hikes, more monetizing of debt, oh, and no serious look at the NDAA. Maybe Obama wins, and we get the same thing, but with firms being told where they can and can't locate and no repeal of ObamaCare. What will we say? NOT OUR FAULT!

Will we just excuse ourselves? No - we'll say, "we still have a solution for you! It's over here! It's Dr. Paul...or its the man or woman to whom he passes the torch. Either way, it hasn't changed. It's liberty! Come and get it when you're tired of sliding closer to Greece!"

And where are we in a bigger position to make that appeal? As the "Right Honorable Opposition" within the Republican Party, that's where!

Even if we lose

I agree with that comment. We need to do what is right even if we do lose, not that we will. We try to win, but it's about principles, truth, and integrity. Without principles, without morality, we are screwed as a campaign. We know our nation will crumble without morality (George Washington). If there has to be morality for society to function, morality must be reality. If morality is reality and truth, there must be a reality- giver. If there is a reality- giver, there is a God. If there is God of truth, he must care about right and wrong. If he cares about right and wrong, he will punish us for our sins. If He will punish us, there must be a place of punishment such as Hell. Get right with God.

Zefforah Dalton

Do you really believe what you're saying?

Allen, are you saying Ron Paul will win a majority of the delegates? Do you really think that he will be nominated by the GOP?

The only way Ron Paul gets on the general election debate stage at this late date is to go independent or third party before the deadlines for getting on the ballots. Most of these deadlines will be past due come convention time.

Before I was aware of this schedule (http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2012/2012pdates.pdf,) I also promoted trying to get Ron Paul the nomination. Because his campaign has refused to pursue a coalition strategy with progressives, he will not only not win the nomination, he will not get a plurality of votes or delegates.

If he gets out the GOP race now, he can get his name on general election ballot and if he has a progressive running mate, he will definitely be in the debates.

I find it hard to believe that Ron Paul's campaign has been reduced to pollyannish fund raising appeals. Does anybody even want him in the general election anymore, or is that too close to actually governing?

I apologize for my snideness

sometimes it just comes out. I have a new comment in response to David Robertson the Scot, below. He said:

"Dr. Paul himself has said that he wants to take the Republican Party back to its roots. That is his goal and it is the goal of his son Senator Rand Paul"

My response to his is: Does Dr Paul want to be the savior of the GOP or help to save the country? And, what is the best path to achieve that? I vote for the country. F*#k the GOP. They well deserve their fate.

End of story?

We don't need to think for ourselves now. thanks

Libertarian Presidential Campaign Has Great Potential

If Ron Paul or Gary Johnson run as the Libertarian Party Presidential candidate and win over 5% of the popular vote in November, then the Libertarian Party could receive about $90 million in Federal campaign funds and that would be a game changer. It is worth trying for. Lets do it.

JustLiberty4US's picture

Your Encouraging Book

I read your book about six weeks ago, when I started to read the DP. I'm reading it again today, and it encourages me to do my part even more the second time around.

One of my favorite lines you wrote:
"In fact, American media is the only media in the world that I have come across where “I’m offended” is a style of thinking that is considered a
legitimate way to silence debate." Thanks for taking the time to write the book. It helps the movement in a strong way.

Ron Paul running 3rd party is inevitable

despite him saying its not in his plans, there's no way the republican convention are going to give him a look in. we've seen the past corrupted brokered conventions. the elites run the show regardless.

a Ron Paul 3rd party run is the prayer shot from the backcourt on the buzzer, but the only shot in my opinion.

still, Ron Paul has been smart enough to engage the youth and that is the future. it might not be 2012 but liberty will hold currency in 2016 and beyond. godspeed.


the 'media assassins'

Both are long shots - GOP Nom or Third Party

But not completely exclusive. Better question is how many support a third party run, if Romney is nominated.

Riding GOP primaries to Tampa makes sense. But winning in Tampa then keeping the Ron Paul platform intact, is a long shot. You are trying to peel off 100 yrs of corruption. Id like to see the Vegas odds on that.

Third party has advantages. Ron can stay true 100% to his platform. That said, short of a monstrous donation via PAC, getting promotion and real coverage 3rd party is candidly impossible. "Calling All Angels". Recall, the Bush supporter investigator threatened Perot with digitally altered pics of his daughter, that is what we can expect, in a third party run. I would cheer watching RP delegates walk out of Tampa...

However, we need to restore this country and return it to a republic. "don't you see Maximus, that is why it must be you, you have not become corrupted by its politics".

I support this campaign all the way. I feel a third party run is inevitable.

"This isn't what the govern meant"

"Win the crowd and you will win your freedom"


attempting to get the GOP nomination and running third party are mutually exclusive: http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2012/2012pdates.pdf

I Hope So

There is absolutely no way--none whatsoever--that the Republican Party and its benefactors (Wall Street, the Defense Industry, AIPAC, etc., etc.) is going to let Paul win the Republican nomination. They'll throw out the rule book if they have to. If he really cares about ending the wars, Ron Paul will run as a third party candidate.
If/when he does, that's when we'll see the sparks start to fly. There will be no ignoring him, because the left and the independent voters will climb on board.
Make no mistake, a third party run is what the establishment candidates fear. People like this diarist writing "Third Party Loser" makes me wonder what the agenda is: to have Ron fade away after the convention and set the table for his son to run in the future? I don't think Ron Paul supporters have given all their hopes and dreams and money and time to Ron Paul so his son can emerge a winner. Many on the right and left know his son is not the father, not by a long shot. If Ron Paul doesn't give it his last, best shot--as a third party candidate--he will have squandered the hopes and dreams of all those people who so ardently support him.
The writer says:
"We are not even 15 weeks into a 9 month primary process."
That is not true. If a third party candidacy is in the works, it's got to begin within days and weeks, not after the convention in Tampa. Ron Paul needs some new advisors who advocate a third party run.

Third Party is the Only Way

You are absolutely correct, Lefttown. People who think the Wall Street-, military-industrial complex-, CFR- AIPAC-driven GOP is going to allow Ron Paul to become their nomination are delusional.

Watch my recent film, "SPOiLER - How a Third Political Party Could Win" and read the article, HOW RON PAUL CAN WIN & SPOIL NOTHING at http://www.jaegerresearchinstitute.org/articles/ronpaul3.htm

The 2-hour version of SPOILER is on YouTube at http://youtu.be/GbF5loRF61U and the 1-hour version is at http://youtu.be/UHQj9wtW3nA

An extended trailer of SPOILER is at http://youtu.be/4TkHCJpgg8Y and if you want a DVD, you can get them at the official website at http://www.SpoilerUSA.org

SPOiLER explores the political, economic and philosophic ethos of the past 98 years for clues into the expanding debt-driven, welfare-warfare state and ways Americans can get back to a constitutional republic. Analyzing the reasons no third party has been successful since John C. Fremont and Abraham Lincoln established the Republican Party around 1860, SPOiLER offers a platform -- based on the political strategies of Nelson Hultberg -- that could inspire an existing, or new, third party to win, thus bringing the DemoPublican monopoly to an end.

SPOILER was produced by Edwin Vieira & Henrietta Jaeger
Written & Directed by James Jaeger

CHUCK BALDWIN, Radio Host-Pastor
PAT BUCHANAN, Author/Political Analyst
G. EDWARD GRIFFIN, Author/Producer
NELSON HULTBERG, Political Strategist
PETER LILLBACK, Author/Theologian
JOHN McMANUS, President John Birch Society
EDWIN VIEIRA, Author/Constitutional Attorney
JOHN WILLIAMS, Economist-Statistician

Guest Appearances:
JACK ROONEY, Senatorial Candidate
RON PAUL, Congressman/Presidential Candidate

Nail square on the head....

... it is time now to go third or independent and get serious about ending the current wars and the one that both parties are trying to start in Syria, North Korea and Iran. End the tribal politics!

Keep telling the truth lefttown.

Thanks to You

and to everyone who replied! I'm glad you pointed out the urgency in this comment you wrote, progressivesforronpaul:

"The only way Ron Paul gets on the general election debate stage at this late date is to go independent or third party before the deadlines for getting on the ballots. Most of these deadlines will be past due come convention time."

We all care about ending the wars, restoring our civil liberties, and ending Free Trade Agreements, just like the majority of people in this country. The question is, does Ron Paul care enough about these issues to launch an independent or third party run? He, more than anyone in the country, has the best shot of winning, and it is important for the future of this country that he spreads the message. If he says yes, people of all ideological stripes would climb on that train and support him all the way. If he says no, then I, for one, can't join him in his futile journey that would dead-end in a corporate-controlled coronation of Mitt Romney.

Both Parties What is There to Lose and

Everything to gain. Loyalty belongs to our Constitution, not the party.


Stay with the GOP and lose independents.
Lose independents, libertarians, progressives, youth--you are nothing.
You have only one choice.


No way will the GOP allow Dr Paul to win during any brokered convention.
We should ride the GOP train, then ditch it to go 3rd party at the appropriate time.
Dr Paul's support is far greater now, he will pull many independents, libertarians and democrats in a 3rd party run.

So True - your analysis is correct - I don't give a hoot

what party RP runs on if he is on the top of the ticket. And screw the GOP - they don't deserve us. It's now or never for RP - so no compromises, no deals, no wavering.

Dr. Paul himself has said

Dr. Paul himself has said that he wants to take the Republican Party back to its roots. That is his goal and it is the goal of his son Senator Rand Paul also.

I am a Scot living in the UK so I don't have a dog in this fight but I have followed Dr. Paul since 2007 and have read a lot about the way the system works in the US. Allan Stevo has mentioned the election of 1912 and I have also though that this year resembles that one.

There was a fight on then for the soul of the Republican Party with Roosevelt stumping for the collectivist wing. My own conclusion was that if there were to be a third party run it would not be from Dr. Paul because like Taft he would win the nomination as a Jeffersonian republican. There may however be a third party run from the disenchanted Republicans who cannot vote for Dr. Paul because of his non-interventionist foreign policy. That for me is a more likely outcome than Ron Paul running third party.

There are quite a few on the DP espousing the idea of a third party run and I must say I can understand their thinking but they are I believe driven by their fear that this may be the last chance before the country is shut down. This makes them impatient and they want to do things in a hurry. This is sure to end in disarray and would play into the hands of the ruling elites who would be happy to see the energies of the revolution dissipated.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

You are right

A third party run would dissipate our energies, and most likely play into the hands of the elite. A candidate has to be in the debates in order to have a chance in the general election. And there is no way Dr. Paul will be if he goes third party. They will break any rule to keep him out.

That Is SO Not True

A third party run will not play into the hands of the ruling elite. The ruling elite do not want anyone challenging authority and siphoning off votes.
The energies of the revolution will dissipate if Ron Paul loses at the Republican convention. And he will lose, because they will not let him win. That's reality.
The energies of the revolution will gain strength if Ron Paul runs a third party campaign and people who "have no where to go" join Ron Paul.
Speaking from the left, I don't like it when I hear Rand Paul is the end goal. They are not interchangeable, and it smacks of nepotism. It's discouraging. I don't think others have supported Ron all these years had any idea that meant Rand Paul would be the result. Count me out on that plan.

Don't count yourself out quite yet.

The likelihood that Ron Paul will run third party is infinitesimal since he has made his position very clear that he wants to take the Republican Party back to its original Jefferson/Madison roots.

You say that you are "speaking from the left" but most of the RP supporters I believe have gone beyond the left/right paradigm and recognise that these labels are simply used to divide the people while advancing the elites' collectivist agenda. (When you say "left" do you mean that you believe that the State should be actively involved in guiding and regulating the economy and people's lives and habits to a great extent?)

In my view the political system in the United States has been set up to favour the two major Parties and to marginalise third parties. However third parties do fulfil a useful function for the ruling class and that is to attract the votes of those who are principled or single issued and wish to be politically active. There are I believe 72 third parties in the US and their major hurdle is getting on the ballot in all 50 States. Even if they do this they rarely have sufficient funds to advertise and all the free publicity goes to the two major Parties' candidates through the controlled mass media. This is effectively controlled opposition and the current efforts by Americans Elect are a good example of this technique. You should read this post by The Granger on this issue. It will open your eyes:


It is under the heading "I respectfully don't agree"

Dr. Paul did run as a Libertarian and I believe that experience taught him the futility of that course of action. His strategy to take back the Republican Party is I believe the correct one and it has the support of the majority of his active followers. There are many who are seeking political office and have already been elected. One of these happens to be his son Rand Paul and that is a good thing since Dr. Paul was a very influential father and has taught his family well the principles of liberty. He is so loved by his family that his three sons chose to have him as their best man at their weddings.

That you do not feel drawn to Rand the way you are to his father is likely due to your continuing attachment to the "left" of the political spectrum. Rand was elected as a Republican and appears to be largely supportive of the Party. You may eventually see this left/right paradigm for the illusion it is and then begin to see Rand Paul as being his own man but also continuing in the tradition of his father.

There are actually only two political tendencies at work in any society and they are represented in all the different third parties but not in the ruling two Party paradigm. Both ruling Parties are collectivist. They have the appearance of difference but there is no substantive difference in the way they rule through the power of the State. This is the fundamental question that one must ask. Does this Party or individual candidate embrace a collectivist ideology, based not upon rhetoric but upon actions, or do they believe in the vision of the founders of the United States of America as written in their founding documents?

This vision is the one that Ron Paul has spoken and written about all his public life and it is one that is now beginning to make inroads into the consciousness of the American people once again. In order to implement this vision it is necessary to follow the path marked out by the party system already in place and the most logical one to work with is the Republican Party because that was the name of the party founded by Madison and Jefferson the authors of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence respectively. Their philosophy was that of John Locke. It was called libertarian and its political expression was republicanism.

This is why I believe that the course chosen by Dr. Paul, to take the Republican Party back to its original roots, is not only the correct one it is the only logical one in the present circumstances. If this were the 19th. century, when the political system was much more fluid and when the Republican Party of today was founded, using the name of the original Party of Jefferson and Madison, then absorbed or was absorbed by the Whig Party, then the idea of forming a new party might have some merit. It is however the 21st. century and the political system has been deliberately shaped to the will of powerful men without the consent of the People. The only way the People can take back control is by taking back one of the major Parties.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

May I lefttown?

It is this arrogant sectarian libertarianism that you espouse which insures that neither Paul will ever be president. Paul has one path to the White House and that is is a coalition with progressives. Stop this conversion requirement and you'll get more of us on board.

The Republican party is forever wedded to the MIC. Quit this dellusion of ever reforming it.

Arrogant sectarian libertarianism? Yikes! Sounds awful.

It isn't necessary for every supporter of Ron Paul to join the Republican Party and work from within to restore it to its original purpose. If you are inclined to agree with Dr. Paul on certain issues and not on others then by all means work with him and get him elected as best you can.

"The Republican party is forever wedded to the MIC. Quit this dellusion (sic) of ever reforming it."

It is not my delusion, it is Dr. Paul's stated goal. If we take the emotional content out of the equation it seems to me to be an eminently sensible objective. There is of course this ongoing enmity between "R" and "D" but that should not enter into consideration in discussing strategy. Both major Parties are presently collectivist in nature so by supporting either of them one supports the agenda of the ruling elites whose preferred ideology is collectivism. They are both wedded to the MIC and all the rest of the banking and corporate cartels.

The influential leadership of the Republican Party is mostly neo-conservative which is another name for Marxist-Trotskyist. The Democratic Party is similarly controlled by the Marxist-Leninists. The rank and file of both Parties are probably completely unaware of this and fight tooth and nail with each other mindlessly. Why any thinking person would wish to join either Party is beyond me. This is however a special time and a unique opportunity to take the Republican Party back to its roots as Dr. Paul has clearly said is his intention. It requires a strong conscience no doubt and great faith in the vision of Liberty and Justice for All.

If you personally find this idea too repugnant then of course you must follow the dictates of your conscience and do the best you can to achieve the immediate goal of electing Ron Paul to be the Presidential candidate of the Republican Party, within the confines of your own principles. One can ask no more of anyone.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)


I've mellowed a bit since my previous post. It occurred to me that there is a way for the coup of the GOP to continue while Ron Paul goes independent: http://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/2012/04/elephant-...

Thank You

for responding, Progressives4Paul. The entrenched two-party system is so corrupt that we are essentially offered no choice whatsoever, anymore. Candidates from both parties are the cut from the same greedy, warmongering cloth. Reform them? They should be dismantled, and we should start over with new parties that actually represent the people. Third-party and independent candidates are our best way forward.

This is the goal.

"They should be dismantled, and we should start over with new parties that actually represent the people."

This is what Ron Paul wants to do. He is just doing it in a different way than you imagine or would like him to do it. Look at the butterfly. Metamorphosis starts WITHIN the caterpillar. The caterpillar becomes food for the seed of the butterfly within.

The Republican Party has gone through many changes in its history. It is simply a legal structure. People who are active within the structure give it its meaning. Given the present political system, by joining the Republican Party and changing it from within, the same goals will be achieved more certainly than by taking the third party route. The goal is the resurrection of the principles of Jefferson and Madison the founders of the original Republican Party. These are the men who authored the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution so there are no better role models if one wishes to restore the Republic.

Of course the entire legal framework of the country may undergo radical changes if Dr. Paul is elected President. The dream that you have of having other parties or indeed no parties at all could well come to pass and the country could return to the ideals and election methods of the Constitution.

The State legislatures would then appoint the members of the Senate and the People would elect the House of Representatives. The election of the President and Vice President would be according to Article II Section 1 of the Constitution.

As I said the real issue is whether the direction taken is towards greater collectivism or greater liberty. If the Constitution is upheld then the forces of liberty will prevail.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Well Said, But Irrelevant

Only one thing matters. If Ron Paul is not the GOP nominee, then what choice is there?

There is no difference between Obama and Romney, a vote for either is a vote wasted. So I pledge to vote for Ron Paul regardless of the outcome of the primary.

I would prefer that Ron get the GOP nomination, and I will work as hard as humanly possible to make that happen. However, if that does not happen, my conscience will not allow me to vote for any other candidate.

though i somewhat agree

an audit of the fed isnt quite enough for me to succeed a paul "treasury sec position etc"................ my point here is - i agree w/ your overall premice... we need to not think 3rd party and focus on tampa.... but..... i can name you over 50 people i personally know who are dems, wont vote in the gop primaries, but have told me - if pauls nominated hes got my vote... point being ---- 3 party SHOULD be an option and if ron pauls 35 yr career of not being buyable is valid - if we dont get the nomination.. he has to run 3rd party. period. and honestly he could win 3rd party... but first... we can win the gop... im just pointing out that no 3 party run in history has ever started being in a party and branching off, all 3 party runs are 3 party before hand and miss out on the years worth of exposure - this movement is growing so fast and even non voters love paul - again - point being - if we have to choose between settling for a promise of giving us 1 issue.... or runnin 3 party - we chooose 3 party - and if we lose 3 party - 24 paul backers are running for congress 200 for local office IFFF we dont get the gop nomiation a 3 party run adds to this number (including me im highly debating it right now) the movement is larger than anything... again im a conservative republican (true conservative) and im highly for winning as a republican first and that should be our focus but im sorry, we cant tolerate the gop being hijacked keynesians. i wont settle for one issue. - IFFFFFFFF we dont win the gop nomination - a 3 party run at this point in history w/ a unique man like dr paul - should happen - but where i agree w/ you is 3 party should not be thought about by anyone but the campaign until after tampa. good post overall but seems like a gop type post saying "if u run 3 party u gurantee obama wins"... ;)


I completely agree

Excellent article! THANK YOU, I'm sure everyone working with the Ron Paul campaign agrees 100%. Seems everyone working on the campaign in CA, at least all those WORKING ON BEING REPUBLICAN DELEGATES and going to Tampa and are IN TO WON, would agree 100%.

The rest are waiting in vain for us to fail..

By the way.. at my Republican Central Committee meeting today, I represent Ron Paul's campaign, and the Republican who represents Romney was there, bashing Newt BIG TIME, but is VERY worried about Ron Paul.. seems Ron Paul is winning CA in the Romney team mind.

And they told me, they would vote for Ron Paul. I did not tell them I would vote for Romeny.. I wouldn't.

RON PAUL have moral

RON PAUL have moral obligation and duty to run independent only if there is significant fraud in the GOP nomination process which actualy can be prooven and that fraud has done significant damage which altered final nomination result.Everything else is wrong speculation and it is not part of fair play.Ron Paul 2012 sucess is not allways just dependant on Ron and his organisation.It is dependant of will of his supporters to putt money in delivery of the message to wider audience and practicaly to influence that audience.Ron Paul popular support is huge but actual financial support is nowhere near to popular suport and to go against Fed. candidates at least you need some money.
Ron at least have 1 million active supporters.Each to give $20 for Texas is $20 millions.Can be done,but will that actualy become reality?Ron Paul has done his part,delivering speaches across near all states. Today we will see what "We the people" can do.Ultimately it is our decision to trust or to don't.