4 votes

If you owe taxes to IRS, you cannot leave the country: Fox Biz (Dr.Paul right again)

Remember that line from Dr. Paul during a debate when he said that a fence can be used to keep us in, in addition to keeping illegals out.
Many people did not understand that comment then.
According to Fox Biz there is a Senate bill which allows the Govt to stop you from leaving the country if you owe taxes.


The provision is part of Senate Bill 1813, which was introduced by Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) in November and passed by the Senate on March 14 “to reauthorize Federal-aid highway and highway safety construction programs, and for other purposes.”

Those “other purposes” have come to include a little-known amendment recently introduced by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid that would allow the State Department to revoke, deny or limit passports for anyone the Internal Revenue Service certifies as having “a seriously delinquent tax debt in an amount in excess of $50,000."

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The Bill has not passed yet.

The Bill has not passed yet. Stop the hype... and correct the title...

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

The BIll has not passed yet. That Makes No Sense At All

I am getting involved in this discussion with you because since your post ordering the author to change the title and ordering people to limit their speech there has been no participation in this forum. Before you posted your orders attempting to limit peoples right to free speech this was an active forum with many users. There needs to be more discussion and more forums that are focused on preventing bad bills from becoming law not less. I would prefer to use my time preventing what I think are bad bills from becoming law.

Your level of ignorance regarding the first amendment to the constitution (Freedom of Speech). the English language and the legislative process is amazing.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King

In reference to your comment "The Bill has not passed yet." That is one of the most stupid comments that I have ever seen posted. It should be obvious that once a bad Bill becomes law it is too late to prevent that same bad Bill from becoming law. In addition it should be obvious that there is nothing that can be done to prevent a bad Bill from becoming law after that same Bad bill becomes law. I hope you can understand all that. It should be obvious that Americans that think the Bill is bad have the right to attempt to prevent the Bill from becoming law.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.” - Ron Paul

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Without Freedom of Thought, there can be no such thing as Wisdom; and no such thing as public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. - Ben Franklin

In reference to your comment "Stop the hype... and correct the title..." It is obvious that you don't understand the First Amendment to the Constitution or don't care what it says.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
As you should be able to see the First Amendment gives the American people the right to peaceful assembly and the right to freedom of speech. It should be apparent that Americans have the right to post whatever they want whether it is hype or not. It should be apparent that Americans have the right to attempt to prevent Bills which they think are bad from becoming law. Americans have the right to choose titles they think are appropriate. I hope you can understand all that.

“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.” - George Washington

There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation. – James Madison

In reference to your comment "Stop the hype... and correct the title..." It is obvious that you don't know the definition of "Title". These are definitions of "Title" that I found in various online dictionaries.
"An identifying name given to a book, play, film, musical composition, or other work."
"The distinctive name of a work of art, musical or literary composition, etc."
"A descriptive name, caption, or heading of a section of a book, speech, etc."
"The distinguishing name of a book, poem, picture, piece of music, or the like."
The title of the forum is obviously fine. I hope you can understand all that, if not you only need to look at the titles "USA Patriot Act" and ''Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century Act' to see that the title on this forum is fine. Please feel free to verify all that with an elementary school or high school English teacher. Obviously you are not the judge of forum title selection, your actions are ridiculous.

The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. – Thomas Jefferson

It is obvious by your actions and ignorance that you should go back to school to educate yourself before interjecting anything into a discussion of such importance.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson

Your acts of ordering the author to change the title of their forum and ordering Americans to limit their right of free speech are irrational, offensive, repressive and absurd as well as moronic.

Your acts of ordering Americans to change the titles of their forums and limit their free speech are potentially harmful to all Americans. Your acts appear to be an attempt to sabotage American's right to prevent bad Bills from becoming law.

It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine

Your apparent attempts at being either a self appointed internet sheriff, or internet vigilante or cyberbully are comical, however it can also be very destructive. Voter complacency and voter ignorance are major contributors to bad Bills becoming law. Anything that contributes to voter complacency and voter ignorance is obviously bad.

“Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.” - Ron Paul

If you want to continue acting as a self appointed internet sheriff or internet vigilante or cyberbully and you truly are a supporter of Ron Paul, you might want to start searching the websites supporting Mitt Romney, and Barrack Obama. You may be able to find many titles that you may think need changing there, you may also be able to find a lot of "hype" there as well. You might want to attempt to suppress free speech and disrupt forums on websites that support Mitt Romney and Barrack Obama instead of attempting to censor and intimidate fellow Ron Paul supporters.

"We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate. - Thomas Jefferson

Most important, if you want to continue your role as self appointed internet sheriff or internet vigilante you could also do something that will benefit all Americans. You could start acting as the self appointed sheriff or vigilante of correctness in regards to legislation, you could start by ordering politicians to change the highly misleading titles of their bills. In case you did not realize it the titles of many bills misrepresent the content of their Bills. Titles that misrepresent Bills are a much bigger problem than the title of this forum, blog, thread or whatever you want to call it. You could start by ordering the politicians to change the title "USA Patriot Act", and you could also order the politicians to change the title of the bill ''Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century Act' and "Transportation Research and Innovative Technology Act of 2012". There are many more bills with misleading titles that misrepresent the Bills. This seems to me like a much more important mission for a self appointed sheriff of correctness or self appointed monitor of titles or internet vigilante.

“It is true that liberty is not free, nor is it easy. But tyranny - even varying degrees of it - is much more difficult, and much more expensive. The time has come to rein in the federal government, put it on a crash diet, and let the people keep their money and their liberty.”
Ron Paul

You could also just stick with making predictions although they appear to be as equally irrational as the orders you posted on this forum. After looking at your predictions and your title it appears that you may not be the best judge of what is hype and what is not.

“Freedom is living without government coercion. So when a politician talks about freedom for this group or that, ask yourself whether he is advocating more government action or less. ” - Ron Paul

Self appointed internet sheriff or an internet vigilante or cyberbully. I have noticed that cyberbullys normally want the last word and normally will not stop until they get it. I don't care which one you think you are, it is not important. What is important is preventing bad bills from becoming law.

“Let the revolution begin.” - Ron Paul

In case you did not notice it is hard for Ron Paul to start a revolution when you are trying to censor Ron Paul supporters and trying to prevent them from expressing their views regarding potentially bad bills.

I am going to try to restart this discussion regarding Senate Bill 1813 and the attached amendment giving the IRS new powers because many people think senate bill 1813 is a bad bill and I would like to do something to help prevent it from becoming law. I would appreciate it if you did not make any more attempts to limit everyone's right to speak freely.

Now it will be interesting to see if you are going apologize to the author and your fellow Ron Paul supporters that are trying to prevent bad Bills from becoming law or are you going to try to defend your BS with more BS.

My comments are my opinion.

What the hell are you ranting

What the hell are you ranting about? Seriously. No one is against free speech, but free speech doesn't mean you can post INACCURATE Statements.

Are you trying to tell me whenever someone corrects someone else, they are trying to stifle fee speech?

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

This Bill Has Already Passed In the Senate By A Huge Majority

This is the vote count for Bill 1813 in the Senate. This Bill has already been approved by the Senate.
Aye - 74
Nay - 22
Abstain - 4
These are facts, not hype.
The title is obviously correct. The vote count should be making people very concerned.

You are free to post what you want, don't tell other people how they should phrase their posts and titles. If you have an opposing view I would appreciate it very much if you post it here. I am always willing to learn and always respect other peoples opinion. Don't try to prevent freedom of speech here.

So what? A lot of bills pass

So what? A lot of bills pass either in the senate or house but never make it into law.... I refer to my original statement...

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

Bad Bills Become Laws

Wow that is correct, many bills do not become law. Thank you for sharing that with me, I am truly impressed with the extent of your knowledge regarding the lawmaking process. However you might want to concentrate on another fact that may be a little more relevant to the discussion here and much more important. Bad Bills Become Law.

It is not law yet, and may

It is not law yet, and may never be, so what is the point? if you are against it contact your congress person.

the title of the thread is just factually incorrect "If you owe taxes to IRS, you cannot leave the country" This is just not true, and may never will be.

Majority, if not all laws are bad. What is your point? I dont support this bill, but I dont support factually incorrect statements either...

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

No Do-Overs For Politicians

No second chances for career politicians. Anyone posting here could have easily authored a much better highway safety and transportation bill. It is easy to see that the politicians are more interested in their own political careers than the needs of their constituents. It is becoming more and more obvious that the politicians are out of touch and need to be replaced. We Americans need to prevent this bill 1813 with the attached amendment giving new power to the IRS to revoke and suspend passports as well as a requirement of mandatory black boxes in all vehicles from becoming law. All Americans need to prevent their politicians from destroying our country to taking away our rights.

wow, this is really an IRS code amendment bill

Keep scrolling down after the IRS passport section 40304, which is about 80% of the way down the page. I lost count how many times it states: The Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by....adding, changing, etc...

and then what the heck is this in here for?


(a) In General- Section 361 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:

‘(d) Special Rules for Transactions Involving Section 355 Distributions- In the case of a reorganization described in section 368(a)(1)(D) with respect to which stock or securities of the corporation to which the assets are transferred are distributed in a transaction which qualifies under section 355--

‘(1) this section shall be applied by substituting ‘stock other than nonqualified preferred stock (as defined in section 351(g)(2))’ for ‘stock or securities’ in subsections (a) and (b)(1), and

‘(2) the first sentence of subsection (b)(3) shall apply only to the extent that the sum of the money and the fair market value of the other property transferred to such creditors does not exceed the adjusted bases of such assets transferred (reduced by the amount of the liabilities assumed (within the meaning of section 357(c))).’.

(b) Conforming Amendment- Paragraph (3) of section 361(b) is amended by striking the last sentence.

(c) Effective Date-

RP R3VOLution

Americans need to prevent this bill from becoming law

"The greatest [calamity] which could befall [us would be] submission to a government of unlimited powers."
Thomas Jefferson

“Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.”
Thomas Jefferson

"There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."
James Madison

"It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man who knows what the law is today can guess what is will be tomorrow."
James Madison

"Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death."
Patrick Henry

“The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.”
Thomas Jefferson

An unlimited power to tax involves, necessarily, the power to destroy.
Daniel Webster

“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.”
George Washington

The problem is always the same. Inaction of the people is the government politicians best defense to get everything they want. Inaction keeps bad politicians in office. Inaction give mores power to the government. Inaction destroys people rights and limits their freedom. This Bill 1813 will most likely become law because most people just complain, very few people do anything to fix anything in this country. I have begun weekly faxing and writing and emailing my representatives in regards to my opposition to senate bill 1813 and the attached IRS amendment. I am doing everything I can think of to prevent Senate Bill 1813 and the attached amendment giving new power to the IRS to revoke and suspend passports from becoming law. Everyone needs to do something to make their country better, that means making sure their representatives are not destroying the country. Our forefathers would have died trying to keep America great. Nowadays Americans just sit back and watch the country deteriorate. They let politicians destroy their own country. Inaction is allowing our politicians to destroy our country. Complaining is good but please do something useful to prevent the senate bill 1813 and the amendment giving the IRS new powers to revoke passports from becoming law.


Great post.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

If they claim you owe them money, just ask them this:

Dear IRS and Senator Barbara Boxer, if you're claiming I owe you some tax money, then you must be under the presumption I'm a government employee that falls under ...

USC Title 26 ss 6331 under Section A, which says:

Excerpt: " Levy may be made upon the accrued salary or wages of any officer, employee, or elected official, of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of the United States or the District of Columbia, by serving a notice of levy on the employer (as defined in section 3401(d)) of such officer, employee, or elected official."

Are you a gov't employee as listed in Section A? If not, then perhaps it isn't YOU that owes THEM money, but instead maybe THEY owe YOU money for the labor they say YOU'VE been doing as one of their employees, that's ran up this tax bill they claim you owe. And if that's the case,

I think we might just have a MAJOR labor dispute here, what say you?


I wonder what the difference would be in money owed, if we really sat down and done the math?

Over [X-amount] of years of presumed gov't employment, they've taken out 25% of your paycheck every week as taxes owed, let's say they are presuming you owe $50,000.00 okay?

Now, if YOU owe THEM $50K in back taxes, that must mean that you made $200,000.00 as the government employee they are "presuming" you to be; and if that's the case, from the math I come up with, it looks like someone owes YOU a rough shot estimate of somewhere in the neighborhood of $150,000.00.

Do you have any check stubs laying around the house from the gov't check you've been getting every two weeks that's proof of your employment? If so, then by all means you do owe the tax, if you fall under Section A, and you really should just write out the check and pay your bill.

But, if you don't have any gov't checks laying around the house as proof of gov't employment, and they are under the "presumption" that you currently are, or have been an employee of their Corporation, and they insist you owe them the tax money, then don't we have a MAJOR labor dispute here?

I mean no one can force you to work for free, not even your own government, right?

I'm just trying to be fair; and I'm under the "presumption" they want to be fair as well, so maybe we really should sit down at the table and see who really owes who.

I mean they can't even keep their heads above water paying their employees who actually DO fall under Section A, are they sure they want to hire the rest of us who DON'T fall under section A and take us on as employees too?

That "presumption" that YOU are, or have ever been employed by them, sure could be an expensive "presumption", don't ya think? :)

Or you can early retire, pay

Or you can early retire, pay them their share of the check and keep the rest. You can alway's go back to work especially if this guy or gal is still on the young side.

No, really i thought US citizens were taxed on their world wide income regardless of where they live, this seems like a bunch of hogwash a bunch of great ideas that are already stipulated in the IRS books, it just seems that some politicians are just trying to play smart on this one while looking quite dangerous.

Too Late For That

If the IRS claims you owe them money it will be too late to do anything, you will not have a passport and you will have a lien on all your property. It is much better to do everything possible to prevent the Senate Bill 1813 and the attached amendment giving the IRS new power to revoke and suspend passport from becoming law.

might want to rephrase the title: If the IRS SAYS you owe taxes

they will revoke -- That's what bothers me the most, doesn't matter if you are right, if they say you owe then by God YOU OWE and they're gonna show you who's right by restricting your travel. People will lose their jobs over this, unable to travel on business and perceived as guilty by employers.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know Peace." - Jimi Hendrix

Organizations Supporting Bill 1813

We need to contact the organizations below to inform them and instruct them to remove their support. They may not be aware of the details and the consequences. In addition to the IRS problem, the bill will change the Freeways to Tollways, it will also increase spending, increase borrowing and increase taxes.

Specific Organizations Supporting S.1813
Laborers' International Union of North America
American Public Transportation Association
US Chamber of Commerce
Americans for Transportation Mobility Coalition
Real Estate Roundtable
Americans for Transportation Mobility
Transportation for America
Jewish Federations of North America
International Brotherhood of Teamsters
American Society of Civil Engineers
American Road & Transportation Builders Association
Associated General Contractors of America
American Coal Ash Association
American Concrete Pavement Association
American Concrete Pipe Association
American Council of Engineering Companies
American Subcontractors Association
American Iron and Steel Institute
American Traffic Safety Services Association
Asphalt Emulsion Manufacturers Association
Asphalt Recycling & Reclaiming Association
Associated Equipment Distributors
Association of Equipment Manufacturers
Concrete Reinforcing Steel Institute
International Slurry Surfacing Association
International Association of Bridge, Structural, Ornamental and Reinforcing Iron Workers
International Union of Operating Engineers
Laborers- Employers Cooperation and Education Trust
National Asphalt Pavement Association
National Association of Surety Bond Producers
National Stone, Sand and Gravel Association
National Utility Contractors Association
Portland Cement Association
Precast/Prestressed Concrete Institute
Road Information Program
United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America
National Ready Mixed Concrete Association
League of American Bicyclists

Just about all of those

Just about all of those organizations would benefit from such a bill. Why would they drop their support?

Need to do something

Members of these organizations that support Senate Bill 1813 can easily voice their opposition to the organizations that support the bill. Something needs to be done to prevent this bill from becoming law. Contacting organizations that already oppose the Senate Bill 1813 and the attached amendment giving the IRS new powers would be pointless.