19 votes

The National Convention Is The Ultimate Ruling Body. Bound Delegates Can Be Unbound.

DPers, I see people here that really don't understand the fact that a convention is the ultimate controlling body on any rules that were placed beforehand to control the convention. As a matter of fact, the body of the convention normally approves the rules governing the convention as one of the convention's first acts of business.

What does this mean to you and I, it means that if enough Paul delegates, bound, unbound, stealth, whatever, vote to make it a rule that no state shall allow bound delegates to vote, then guess what they can't.

Some of these rule take a 50% + 1 majority to pass, others take a 2/3 majority.

The reason why Constitutional Scholars always say it's best NOT to have a Constitutional Convention for the United States, is because once you start the convention, anything can happen, like re-writing the U.S. Constitution.

The bottom line is that ultimately the people rule, not rules written down on a piece of paper.

So YES we want Paul unbound, bound, stealth and even like-minded Santorum and Gingrich supporters too.




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joeinmo have you read this yet?

Federal Laws Proving Binding of Delegates Is Illegal!

http://www.dailypaul.com/236908/federal-laws-proving-binding...

November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

The RNC rule 38

says that no state can bind their delegates to the National Convention. So what is the point with all this rule crap?
Every RP supporter delegate walks into that Convention and they vote RP first ballot. If we do not do that then we will be beat before we start. You have to force a brokered Convention. Now once you do that you pray that you start a feeding frenzy. You pray that the real Romney supporters will get caught up in RP adrenalin rush and jump ship. You pray that RP gives the best speech of his life at the RNC. Now you can get on here and talk your heads off but this is the only way we are going to have a hats chance at winning. If we as delegates are not willing to do this then we need to call and cancel those high dollar motel rooms in Tampa before it is to late. I am a delegate to the RNC. It is going to cost me an arm and a leg to get there. Motel room along for five days $1500 and I have already had to pay that up front. Then $800 to the Republican party. For what? Don't ask me. Then air line tickets and you have to eat while you are there and they charge $20.00 for donuts and coffee. When I spend this kind of money then I get the most bang for my buck which is voting RP on the first ballot. My state can have a fit for all I care but I will vote RP first ballot no matter what. Only chance we have.

Good grief....if the states want to bind anyone, then the states

had better pay their way to the convention and back....I agree with you. You are a free agent. Your money, your time.

SequoiaTrees4RonPaul

"As a matter of fact, the

"As a matter of fact, the body of the convention normally approves the rules governing the convention as one of the convention's first acts of business."

So who puts forth these rules to be voted on? Members of the body?

I just had this flash in my head of members presenting all these chumped up rules to skew things Romney at the convention open.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm just well-informed

usually the

county, district, state or national rules committees

Is it currently true that...

bounded delegates can abstained (thus that candidate loses a vote) if they do not like who they are restricted to vote for at the Republican National Convention. In addition; can a motion for secret ballot be requested in the voting.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI

"The belief is worthless if the fear of social and physical punishment overrides the belief."
BILL3 of DP

delegates that have

abstained have happened in nearly every nominating convention.

A motion can be made, but usually they want to go state by state for impact and tv, normally putting the candidate over the top with his/her home state.

The Shazad and samadamscw;

The Shazad and samadamscw; you two are so funny. If you guys are the extent of the Romney activist intelligence then RP delegates have nothing to fear, but maybe laughing too hard at you.

it's ok if you laugh

I don't mind at all if you laugh or think I'm dumb. I will congratulate you if somehow your strategy works. I don't see any way that you can make the numbers work without starting to win primaries. Maybe I'm wrong.

Next on the agenda: Tuesday night's primaries. My bet is that Romney gets over 90% of the bound delegates in NY, CT, DE, and RI combined, and at least 50% in PA. It will put him between 150 and 200 delegates on the night. We'll see what happens.

hmmm

you watch too much Fox, for example in a couple of those states, the delegates get voted on too, on the same ballot as Romney or Paul in that precinct.

So Romney could win 100% of the votes in the precinct and lose every delegate.

Sure the delegate is bound, but there may not be much of a penalty, some state party organizations only a $50 fine, others no penalty, others may abstain, which doesnt give Paul a vote, but not one for Romney either.

BTW, the reason they leave the ability to abstain in the rules, is lets say we find out Romney watches kiddie porn, if you were bound you would have to vote for a kiddie porn candidate, instead you just abstain.

The voting on delegates is in PA

Most of the others are WTA by state and CD. How many will Paul realistically win?

What use is it for Romney to win a primary

if he gets no delegates or they all abstain if they are bound?

What's the evidence

That you will be even remotely successful in getting a majority of delegates in most of these primary states where you're getting 10% of the vote and no bound delegates?

You force

a brokered convention and then watch the real Romney delegates jump ship.

you crack me up

its about getting a brokered convention, Romney won't make it, he practically has to win 98% of the remaining delegates to get over the hump. It won't happen.

Abstain does not give Paul delegates but it makes it impossible for Romney to hit the number.

Once there is a brokered convention anything can happen.

how can you possibly compute 98%???

How many delegates do you think Romney has at this point and how many do you think are left? Not even the Paul campaign thinks Romney needs anywhere close to that. They believe Romney is in the 600 range, which is probably a reasonable guess. What's your count?

While Shazad is a Romney supporter...

... I don't know that samadamscw is. Did he post somewhere that he is a Romney supporter?

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

BMWJIM's picture

No and he is not a Romney

supporter.

1976-1982 USMC, Having my hands in the soil keeps me from soiling my hands on useless politicians.

so it's possible...

for the majority to decide that the 5 state rule for presenting a name/speech for nomination is too easy for candidates to achieve, and change it to a 20 state rule, making it so Ron Paul can't speak? What if they decide that any abstaining votes count as a vote for the leading vote getter?

There are clearly some types of bounds as to what a convention can change in the rules. You said some things take a 50%+1 and others take a 2/3. Why doesn't the convention just change those numbers if it's just a free for all?

Yes

they can, it's what conventions do. Why because normally you don't have such a weak candidate like Romney that the establishment backs, that it's not possible to come in and take it over, but this time it is.

I wish you the best

Your plan won't work, but best of luck trying.

Do you have

proof that it will not work. Warren Harden went into the National Convention with only 6.5 % of the delegates and went on to win the nomination.

And the leader at that convention

The leader at that convention had just about 25% of the delegates. The next highest vote getter had nearly as many. There were more than 10 candidates receiving votes. That's not similar at all to what is happening this year. Santorum would have had to stay in and win 400-500 of the delegates that are now going to Romney. The math just doesn't work for a brokered convention this year.

We need to do some work on that granted

Inform GOP establishment :-

1) That they are being sold down the river by GOP elites for an Obama win

2) That Romney will lose to Obama in a landslide - Obama 341 Romney 191 - Iowa toss up - according to Karl Rove Electoral College map

3) That GOP candidates in tight races will lose their seats

4) That Romney is dirty and Obama will use it.
E.G. Allen Stanfords $8.5bn Ponzi scheme
(All recent Presidents have been dirty - Romney takes it to a new level.)

GOP Elites knew all about Romney's Ponzi problem from way back in 2009.
And yet they picked him. Why?
Because they wanted to throw the election to Obama.
They want to sell the GOP down the river.

5) Plans to increase "defense" budget by $2.1tn over the next term.
Military spending already at $931bn p.a.
Polls say everybody, even Republicans, want "defense" spending cuts of 18 to 22% when told of the current spending (they were only told $530bn).
Will turn away Indie's in droves

6) GOP rigged elections in order to get Romney nominated.
If GOP cannot run their own election fair and square how can you trust them to run the government?
Indie's will turn away in droves.
Dem's will LOVE it.

7) Plenty of other dirt on Romney - Dems had 99 titbits a while ago. It will be more now.

8) To Gingrich and Santorum supporters.
Fox sold you down the river.

9) Nobody wants Romney, nobody even likes Romney, he was foisted on you from above.

GOP better pick another candidate or they won't have a party worth the name at all.
It will disintegrate amidst recriminations over the size of the losses.

Sure others can think of some more ideas.

GOP Establishment and delegates are as ignorant of Romney and his election chances as most of the electorate.
Fox sure hasn't told them.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

For 50 years I have watched the GOP who has the densest

thickest heads for people who supposedly are so smart....they pick candidates that are complete "duds" as they do this customary "next in line" thing...so the fact that Romney is "next in line for it" is all that makes sense to these people...

SequoiaTrees4RonPaul

Ask them a simple question then

What would happen to the US if the US Dollar lost it's Reserve Status?
They will say that can't happen.
And you say - well China doesn't think so. It is actively making plans for, and taking steps to, the US Dollar losing it's Reserve Status.
Did you know that?

Do you know how serious the European Debt crisis is? Have you read up on it? US banks will suffer for it and it will cross the Atlantic.
JP Morgan is already suffering multi billion dollar losses on derivatives and Europe's crisis hasn't even started yet.
Do you want to bail out the banks again - but 10 or more times larger than last time (2008)?

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

Doesn;t work....they have a one track mind and a lot of ego.

..

SequoiaTrees4RonPaul

We have to find some it will work on

and build from that.
I didn't say it was easy to persuade people who have been brainwashed for 20 years or more from watching Fox.
I never said it was going to be easy to get the nomination.
In comparison beating Obama is a piece of cake.

How do we persuade a few?
2 or 5 or 10.
And build from that.

The US is going to hell in a handbasket if Romney is nominated.
I think we can agree on that.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

Yes, they can do that. There are no limits.

Changing the rules on how many votes it takes to change the rules is possible as well, depending on how they are worded.

In general, by-laws require a 2/3 vote to change either by addition, subtraction or substitution.

Standing convention rules, which are more about procedure than organization of the party, usually require a majority.(see actual by-laws and rules for specifics from the GOP)

Some parties make a requirement of super majorities (3/4 or 7/8) to change something really important.

You can also "protect" the majority requirement with a self-reference.

Say you wanted to prevent some rule, say rule 42, from being amended by a vote of less than 7/8 AND you wanted to make sure, that a future convention couldn't easily change the 7/8 to be something easier like 2/3 or a simple majority. Then you would write it like this:

"Rule 42 and THIS rule may not be amended by a vote of less than seven-eighths of the delegates in attendance at any convention."

The LP had just such an issue back in 2008.

There was a move to amend a section of the By-Laws, but it required a 7/8 vote. The idea was to temporarily change it to 2/3, make the change, then change it back to 7/8 and THEN make a self reference so that loophole could never be used again.

The motion failed. People didn't like the smell of it.

That's usually how such rule changes fair.

Either you get the super majority you need, or you don't get the change through.

So it really isn't a free for all in practice.

In theory, yes. But it isn't likely.

If one faction were to get a 2/3 majority at a convention, essentially, they could be unstoppable and could remake everything anew. But that is highly unlikely.

And also note, even if the rule were a unanimous requirement to change rules, if you got the unanimous vote, you could change them. Conventions have ultimate power over their parties. That's how they are set up.

You do not

have to chance any rules. No delegate can be bound to a candidate by any state. State who try and force a delegate to vote for a certain candidate are breaking the law, period.