-88 votes

Bound delegates cannot abstain

I'm very bummed but it appears bound delegates cannot abstain. These are the CA rules:

Each delegate to the Republican National Convention shall use his or her best efforts at the convention for the party's presidential nominee candidate from California to whom the delegate has pledged support until the person is nominated for the office of President of the United States by the convention, receives less than 10 percent of the votes for nomination by the convention, releases the delegate from his or her obligation, or until two convention nominating ballots have been taken. Thereafter, each delegate shall be free to vote as he or she chooses.... [
California Elections Code Section 6461.(c)]

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/CA-R

It seems to me that abstaining would not be using his or her best efforts at the convention for the party's presidential nominee candidate from California to whom the delegate has pledged support.

I presume the rules are about the same in other states with bound delegates.

Oh well. I was hoping enough of Romney's bound delegates would be stealth Paul delegates who would abstain on the first ballot to keep him from getting a majority.

Update with wording from other states from Shazad:

Arizona:

Each delegate to the national convention shall use his best efforts at the convention for the party's presidential nominee candidate who received the greatest number of votes in the presidential preference election ... until the candidate releases the delegate ... withdraws from the race or until one convention nominating ballot .... [Arizona Revised Statutes 16-243]

Mississippi:

The delegates are bound to the candidate entitled to their vote until released.

Massachusetts:

Each nominee for election as a pledged Congressional District delegate or alternate delegate shall express a commitment to a qualifying Presidential candidate and agree to be bound to vote for that candidate on the first such roll-call unless released by such candidate, as required by law.
.....
If there is a roll call vote for President at the Convention, all delegates and alternate delegates whose selection is made subject by the Plan to qualifying Presidential Primary Candidates defined by Section 4.2 of the Plan, shall vote on the first such roll call for that presidential candidate unless released by such candidate. (G.L. c.53, §70I)

Texas:

b. Length of Commitment: A person who is elected as a delegate or alternate to the National Convention on the slate of a and who is assigned to a Presidential candidate by the State Convention Chairman to represent that particular Presidential candidate at the National Convention and who does not resign from the position is pledged to support that Presidential candidate at the National Convention until the candidate is nominated or until the delegate or alternate is released from the pledges as follows:
1. First (1st) nomination convention ballot: delegate or alternate shall be released from the pledge only in the event of death, withdrawal, or by decision of the candidate. For the first ballot taken at the National Convention to determine the nominee of the Republican Party for the office of President of the United States, the totals of the votes of the members of the Texas delegation shall be announced as they would have been if the individual delegates had been awarded to or designated for the respective candidates for such office on the Texas General Primary ballot in accordance with the statewide result of the of the voting for such candidates. No poll of the members of the delegation shall be taken for the announcement of the vote.
2. Second (2nd) nomination convention ballot: delegate or alternate may be released from the pledge by decision of the candidate;
3. Third (3rd) nominating convention ballot: delegate or alternate shall be released from the pledge if the candidate has failed to receive twenty percent (20%) or more of the total vote cast on the preceding ballot; or by the decision of the candidate;
4. Fourth (4th) and subsequent nominating convention ballots: delegates and alternates are released from any pledge.

New Jersey:

"The Delegate understands that he/she is bound by the results of the June 5th primary and must vote for [presidential candidate's name] on the first ballot at the national convention unless that candidate publicly announces that he/she no longer seeks the nomination." [Primary Election Petition to the Republican National Convention]

This is just a sampling, but every state is different. In some states it says explicitly that the delegate must/shall/is required to vote FOR the candidate. There may be some where it just says "cannot vote for anyone besides the candidate", though I haven't found it yet. Such an interpretation may be implied by some but in others it does explicitly state who the delegate must vote FOR, and not just who they can't vote AGAINST. In some states it mentions using your best efforts to support the candidate. Some states don't bind at all. Some states bind through one ballot, some through 2, some for all ballots. There may be some where it would be acceptable to abstain, but in others there would be penalties and the abstention might not even take effect.

Oregon Rules (Submitted by Micah_6_8 on Fri, 04/27/2012 - 01:50.)

From the Oregon Republican Party bylaws, Section XVII, Section B (http://www.oregonrepublicanparty.org/sites/default/files/ORP...):

Section B. Delegate Conduct at the Republican National Convention.
Candidates for delegate and alternate to the Republican National Convention must state which Presidential Preference Primary candidate they favor, and will be listed as running for one of the delegate positions assigned to that presidential candidate. Each person selected as a delegate or alternate shall sign a pledge that he/she shall vote at the National Convention for the candidate for the President of the United States he/she favors until the candidate is:
(1) nominated;
(2) receives less than 35% of the votes for nomination at the convention;
(3) releases the delegate from the pledge; or
15
(4) until two convention nominating ballots have been taken.
Should a delegate or alternate refuse to cast his/her vote in accordance with this pledge, as required by both the Bylaws of the Oregon Republican Party Central Committee and the Oregon Revised Statues, the Chairman of the Oregon delegation to the National Convention shall report to the convention floor that delegate’s vote in accordance with such laws and rules until such time as that delegate is released from his/her pledge.




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Alternates Are Seated Prior To Voting

Not during.

An Alternate Way To NOT Comply !

Don't sign any republican pledge !
A pledge is a promise or a contract, but if a contract is forced on a person it is illegal and considered null and void.

beesting

While we are...

talking about the LAW Mini.

6300. (b) This chapter shall be applicable to the selection of delegates to the Republican Party National Convention to the EXTENT that the constitution, bylaws, and RULES OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY DO NOT PROVIDE OTHERWISE. (emphasis added)

First, the Election Code was written only to the extend describing the process of delegates being selected to represent the State of California. Last I checked, the convention is not only in Florida but RNC has a whole set of private rules of its own.

If RNC has rules which allows delegates to change a given rule with a majority vote, or delegates to abstain, then the State LAW has no say in this.

Simply put, while Section 6461(c) is an election law, it does not supersedes bylaws, the Constitution and rules of the Republican Party and cannot be enforced.

I suppose at best RNC may bar delegates out of the party for life, but last I checked, the Republican party is in no position to bar registered Republican voters out of a dying party. :)

GOOD FIND!!!!

Okay, now we're getting some where.

But even then, to be a bound delegate from CA you still have to contractually agree to support Romney, and, unless a rule, that is a Republican Party rule, is passed at the convention that explicitly allows bound delegates to vote their conscience instead of to whom they are bound, they are not release from that to which they agreed to do in order to be a delegate from CA (support Romney, including intentionally abstaining instead of voting for him).


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

All you people talking about going to the bathroom

might want to keep in mind when you leave the convention floor your credentials stay with an alternate. So everyone who is willing to leave the convention floor and leave your voting credentials with someone else raise your hand. You will come back to a Romney vote. If you are going to do anything stay on the floor and vote for who you want no matter what happens to you later or be ye bound to your masters boot and vote for who you are told to vote for.

I believe there is even more

I believe there is even more Ron Paul delegates that are alternatives, so this is a good plan. Hey buddy, can you spare a bathroom break.

Don't worry, my family will have your back. We'll be outside holding signs.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Actually... THAT

is an ingenious way to back out on Romney without getting publicly smeared? Great :D

you can abstain by being out

you can abstain by being out of the room at the wrong time.

A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Thomas Jefferson. A vote for Rand Paul is a vote for James Madison.

good idea but

someone needs to take care that the delegation leader doesnt anounce your vote to romney...

that's a separate issue.

that's a separate issue.

A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Thomas Jefferson. A vote for Rand Paul is a vote for James Madison.

Oops, got to go #2.

Return just in time for the 2nd round of voting.

.

STILL NOT ONE EXAMPLE WHERE SOMEONE WHO ABSTAINED

GOT PUNISHED WITH SOMETHING LIKE JAIL OR ANY OTHER LEGAL CHARGES!


DO PREVENT A ROMNEY NOMINATION UNDER EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE!!!

IF ROMNEY WINS THE FIRST ROUND THE CAMPAIGN 2012 FAILED!
(sure we have more then the campaign..)

Abstaining from the vote and and getting punished by GOP sanctions is worth more then voting and Romney winning in the first round.

Its more then politics. Its about saving america and the world. Keep that in mind.

Agree completely...

...Better to not go tot Tampa than to vote for Romney.

There is no "law" binding delegates

All that can happen to you if you do not honor your pledge to vote for the bound delegate is they boot you out of the party. Once you do this you will never be allowed back into the Republican party again. As for going to jail, it just will not happen. A delegate once elected can cast his/her vote however he/she wishes. Don't expect to ever participate in Republican politics again though. The best way to do this is to make sure you send as many Ron Paul people to your state conventions and get a majority of the delegates to national convention. Change the rules to unbind all the delegates.

Did you read the OP?

There is no "law" binding delegates

The OP cites the relevant LAWS.


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

You should read more

You should read more carefully what politians do all the time, or even pay attention to rule breaking this election by the GOP. Those aren't binding laws and the posters are giving you lots of reasons why on this thread that are good examples. Or in the common vernacular of color of law double speak you might have heard on tv about our politicians upholding their oaths of office - there is no controlling legal authority. They're suggestions.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

(Are you not the OP??)

just show me where you can actually go to jail... in your wall of text.

just cite that and I will shut up.

Thank you!!

exactly.

Bound or unbound, our delegates should NOT abstain

THEY SHOULD STRAIGHT UP VOTE FOR RON PAUL - EVERY ROUND.

Show me in the RNC rules where a credentialed delegate is bound to vote for anyone once they hit the floor of the RNC convention. (Hint: it's not in there. Also, the RNC is not a law enforcement agency nor a state party.)

Not only is it not in there but the RNC rules have two safeguards protecting national delegates votes: 1) "the unit rule shall not be enforced" - that means that the delegation chair can not enforce a delegate's vote on a delegate. 2) If any delegate feels their vote was recorded in error they can ask the parliamentarian or secretary to change their recorded vote.

It is so important to have accurate information before you misinform others.

Kudos to you for reading your state's rules. However, that is only 1/2 of the information you need to be informed.

The key word is "credentialed"

Romney flaks will be controlling the credentials committee. No question of that. And if a Romney-bound delegate votes for Paul you can be sure they will be immediately referred to the credentials committee and replaced by their alternate. We are playing against the house and they will not feel bound to the rules if they're losing.

my guess is that the

my guess is that the alternates will favor Paul better than the regular delegates.

A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Thomas Jefferson. A vote for Rand Paul is a vote for James Madison.

This is not an RNC rule issue

Show me in the RNC rules...

This is not an RNC rule issue.

This is a state LAW issue. See the OP.


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

Can you tell me how an out of State election law would be

applicable or enforceable for that matter in Florida?

All the precedents are there that delegates can abstain.

(edit: still waiting for an answer but I guess hell will freeze over first)

November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

The RNC is not a law enforcement agency.

Nor a state party.

Who are the delegate police?

Who are the delegate police? I don't beleive pledged delegates even have to vote for the candidate they are supposedly pledged for. The process is to allow "grassroot" efforts to make a difference. Candidates should make sure their "pledged delegates" will actually vote for them. If they couldn't get the delegates so sorry.

The credentials committee

are the delegate police. They're not limited to just checking your badge as you come in. Your credentials can be questioned at any time.

Are you making this up?

The alternative position is supported by the LAWS cited in the OP.


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

Abstain is just a word

freedom is granted by our Creator. I say abstain until the handcuffs come out and still abstain. Freedom has been won by many people losing their freedoms in the past, obviously not forever for abstaining which would never happen. There are no rules now, we are no holds barred. When our supporters go to the national convention, they need to hire local off duty police ahead of schedule. Hire the locals who will be amongst their own locals at the convention. That is what we need to do before we get there. Hire the local police for our delegates at the national convention now!!!!!! We will surely all pitch in for this!!!!

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine

The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!

Take it somewhere else

In your own "proof" for most states the word vote is not even used.