469 votes

Near Sweep for Ron Paul in Massachusetts

We just swept MA district 7, getting the 3 delegates and 3 alternates.

And I heard the same about districts 2, 3 and 5.

We might just sweep this whole state -- and then some.


UPDATE: regarding the sticker issue, just wanted to add that they were handing those out inside the building at district 7 as well. Barring that, the rest of the meeting ran smoothly and without controversy.

Thanks for the video link, FreedomLovingPatriot


Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Any news on the provisional ballots...

... or on the number of alternate delegates we won? Thank you!

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

Maybe I have not paid close enough attention...

... but how many alternate delegates did we pick up in Massachusetts? Thank you.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

Someone Please Explain the Provisional Ballots

I stopped campaigning to get my friend to register Republican after Feb 15th. Some of them I didn't get to in time (their skulls were a little dense), but eventually broke through, but it was after 2/15.

But in district 6, I thought I clearly heard the moderator explain that if you weren't registered by 2/15 as GOP you'd vote provisionally, and your provisional ballot would only be counted if it was deemed mathematically to be in play...
Excuse me??? WTF!! What exactly is the practical difference then from it being an actual vote, if it only counts if the math deems it would matter?? Other than of course it would be counted in secret.

Please someone tell me I'm missing something.


It's explained here


"A provisional ballot is used to record a vote when there are questions in regards to a given voter's eligibility. A provisional ballot would be cast when:

*The voter refuses to show a photo ID (in regions that require one)
*The voter's name does not appear on the electoral roll for the given precinct.
*The voter's registration contains inaccurate or out-dated information such as the wrong address or a misspelled name.
*The voter's ballot has already been recorded

Whether a provisional ballot is counted is contingent upon the verification of that voter's eligibility. Many voters do not realize that the provisional ballot is not counted until 7–10 days after election so their vote does not affect the calling of the states to different candidates.

A guarantee that a voter could cast a provisional ballot if he or she believes that they are entitled to vote was one of the guarantees of the Help America Vote Act of 2002."

Thanks. Now my Question Boils Down to Eligibility

Thank you for the above info. So that means then that what I'm actually confused about is what determines the eligibility to be able to vote. Did you have to be registered by 2/15 or not?

My original understanding was that if you wanted to vote in the caucus you had to be registered by 2/15.
This is consistent with what I heard from our RP coordinators, and consistent with this link:

If the above is true, then all the provisional votes for people registered after 2/15 should quite simply then be thrown out. Right?

But My current understanding (as of Saturday) DEFIES LOGIC and I hope I'm just confused. (i.e. I thought I heard it explained Saturday that you could still vote provisionally if registered after 2/15, but that your provisional vote would only count if it was deemed mathematically to be in play based on the results.) ... so if that's the case, (and then assuming they're counted honestly) then I really see no essential difference between a provisional vote and regular vote!


No, your vote doesn;t count if you were not reigstered

by feb. 15 .Provisional ballots are used when your name does not appear on voter lists but you say that are in fact an eligible voter.


if this is true then I know for a fact one person who voted for me on a provisional ballot would be disqualified. However, if it came to a tie---I hope they would use that ballot for a tie breaker. But I am confident that I will win outright once the provisional ballots are counted.

Logical Inconsistency..But I don't know which is correct

If votes DO count for people that registered after 2/15, then why:
- then why didn't we know about it, and why weren't we chasing after all the unenrolled people to still register throughout March and April to support Ron Paul? Did our campaign just have an honest miss on this one? (This isn't meant to be a dig.. Congrats to a job well done by the guys in MA! )
- And why the heck would the MassGOP website indicate otherwise??
- And why not just count them on the spot??

If votes do NOT count for people that registered after 2/15:
- Then why did the guy running the caucus in District 6 say that they WOULD count and explain that you only had to be registered by 2/15 if you wanted to be a delegate?
- And why all the handwringing about the provisional votes?

Are the provisional ballots supposed to be sorted out today?

If so, what was the result? Thanks.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

provisional ballots

I am one of those delegate candidates affected by the provisional ballots (district 1). I currently am behind by 2 votes but there are 13 provisional ballots, most of which I believe voted for me. Some may be disqualified from sources I have but if I get the majority of them, I will become the 17th delegate in MA.

I will update everyone on what happens.

Again, want to make sure everyone understand we are bound to vote for Mitt Romney. We are NOT RON PAUL DELEGATES. However, we hope to become known as the liberty wing of the Republican Party and affect some positive change---including some of Ron Paul's ideas and principles. A brokered convention is kind of slim at this point, but at least we'll be there.

Wow, that's all?!

"However, we hope to become known as the liberty wing of the Republican Party and affect some positive change---"'

The goal was to elect Ron Paul, ot to be absorbed into the Republican Borg-like apparatus. No, you are not officially Ron Paul delgates but you are (or should be) indeed Ron Paul for President Supporters

'At least we will there' is a pretty pathetic situation to settle for. The Romney delegates say pretty much the same thing and so why should anyone support you?

If you do make it on by way of the provisional ballots you should think long and hard about your goals. Consider also how you would like to be the target of a drone strike courtesy of Mitt Romney - should you vote for him.

petrafan007 has important things to vote on in Tampa...

... even if he (she?) is bound to support Gov. Romney for GOP nominee. These votes include:

1. Convention Chair (pro-Paul Chair = less Establishment cheating)
2. Party Platform ("We Republicans condemn Romneycare")
3. Vice President (Rand Paul -- even if Romney wants someone else)

There are other issues at stake for the Liberty Movement besides Dr. Paul becoming president in 2012 (important though that is, and we should not give up on that goal). petrafan007, who has worked hard to become a delegate, understands this, and I am glad for that. Please think twice before you start taking shots at someone who is out there actually doing something to help the Liberty Movement succeed.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

And iin return

for a Party Platform that no one reads, a VP without power (Rand Paul? No thanks) and a convention chair 'to end the cheating'...

all the RP supporters need to do is vote for warmongering Mitt Romney who will continue to kill abroad.


Grow a backbone.

Those who go to Tampa should make 'revolution' there. Apparently some/many are being co-opted even before the ink has dried on the caucus event.

You misunderstand my position

My position is that we should get as many pro-Paul delegates (like petrafan007) to Tampa as we can. Once there, they attempt to get Dr. Paul nominated as president; they also attempt to do other things as well, like the items I mentioned previously.

I am not advocating for a quid pro quo, and none is needed; if we have enough delegates, we can modify the Platform, elect the Chair, choose the VP, etc., without needing Gov. Romney's permission or agreement. The key will be whether we have the support (Liberty delegates combined with others who happen to agree) to prevail on a particular vote.

It so happens that, because of the binding rules, we may have greater difficulty prevailing on the presidential nomination than we will on some of the other votes. Moreover, in some instances (such as many Platform votes), we will get the support of non-Paul delegates (even Romney loyalists) who will not be supporting Dr. Paul for president.

Bottom line: We go for it all, and win when we can.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand


The convention is an extravagant dog and pony show. The only item on the agenda that really matters is the pres. nomination.

You are correct in that the numbers on the ground of RP supporters is the deciding factor. Assuming that we do not have numbers to the extent necessary to simply get the things (Platform, VP, etc) we want (my guess is this will be the case but hopefully not) than what will happen is Romney et al will make promises to and pressure delegates in return for the only thing that matters at the convention-their votes- so that no wrinkles appear in his nomination process. The delegates/alternates must be prepared for this.

This is what occurred in 2008 and because of the particularities of the situation delegates/alternates cast their votes for McCain. The Republican establishment left the convention with the only thing that mattered to them- a united front

Nothing, in my opinion, warrants a repeat of this and giving a vote to Romney. Delegates must abstain (if that is the option on first ballot). If not, the entire process to get them there was meaningless.

To me, this is more than just a presidential campaign...

... it is a movement, one that needs long-term momentum. In my mind, a successful National Convention will be one that feeds that momentum, even if we fall short in getting Dr. Paul nominated. Paul had at most 42 delegates at National in 2008 (42 was the campaign's number; the AP calculated 35). So, really, we didn't have the numbers to do anything last time.

In 2012, we are on track to accumulate 5 to 10 times as many delegates as 4 years ago, to go along with 2 to 3 times as many popular votes. We also have dozens of Liberty candidates running for Congress, along with who knows how many others running for state and local office. Furthermore, we are beginning to have success in taking over local and even state parties, as we did in Alaska this past weekend. Finally, our demographics are fundamentally favorable: we are strongest among young people, and this group swells, year by year, as new potential voters turn 18. In short, the Liberty Movement is growing, and the future looks bright.

The National Convention may be largely about hype, but we are a young movement that needs hype. If we make a splash in Tampa (in a good way, not because a giant "food fight" breaks out), it will help fuel our forward progress. To me, a key step will be meeting the requirements of Rule 40(b) by gaining a plurality of delegates in 5 states (and I feel optimistic about that, now that things went so well in Louisiana on Saturday). If we achieve that, not only will there be nominating and seconding speeches by Liberty supporters (Rule 40(c)), but I think it likely that Dr. Paul himself will give a prominent address cheered on by hundreds of Liberty delegates and alternates. All this will give us positive visibility and, hopefully, will help elect downballot Liberty candidates in November (even if Dr. Paul is not on the top of the ballot).

I disagree that the VP slot would be without value (although it would be worth more if we don't have to force Romney into a shotgun marriage). In addition to the fact that a president can die in office, the GOP is a loyalist party, and having a incumbent Liberty Movement VP running for president would tend to draw much Establishment GOP support. Of course, one can make the argument that it would be better, from a Liberty perspective, in a Romney vs. Obama matchup for Romney not to win at all (I have my own take on that, as well as some thoughts on the Obama presidency).

I guess what it comes down to is this: Ron Paul or bust in 2012? Or is the campaign part of a bigger picture, one where we might lose the battle, but win the war? One needs to answer that question for himself. I know this ended up being rather long; thanks for reading.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

Of course there is the larger picture....

and future opportunities need to be taken into account.

I agree with much of what you say. However, take your high number of roughly 400 RP supporters (whatever stripe-bound, unbounded, etc.). The only power held by those delegates is in public relations. Romney will win (unless perhaps the Gingrich and Santorum ones come over to RP). It does depend on the final numbers.

And so the horse trading begins for platform planks, possible VP nominees, etc. But there is nothing to offer Romney for any of this except delegates votes.

I agree that there should be no quid pro quo, RP people should not vote for Romney. I sense that some will however. The VP possibility raises that disturbing option. Voting for Romney so that a 'Liberty' person will be VP? Given his stated goals to continue and expand the wars this is an immoral pact with the devil which should not be made and standing up against Romney is a lot more than a 'food fight'.

I do appreciate your concerns...

... Thanks for the dialogue.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand


Folks, even if Ron Paul has NO CHANCE at the presidency, we will be there to give his principles a real voice that they cannot ignore. Trust me---this is better than if only establishment republicans won in MA on Saturday. So, take heart...we have the right intentions.

Getting back to my earlier question...

I was under the (apparently) mistaken impression that the provisional ballots were going to be ruled on today. Do you know which day it will be? Thanks.

(I maintain a thread on which I post delegate updates and encouragement, and I have been waiting on Massachusetts because of the provisional ballot issue.)

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

Please read this also


This is very important for the provisional votes in District 8

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~


Is this not exactly like Valkyrie!? Ha (Not exact, but you know what I mean.)

3 provisional ballots known in District 6

I spoke with one of the RP delegates afterward. there were 7 provisional envelopes to be counted. he said he knew one person was for the liberty slate. add me to that list and that's 2 votes for 1st, 3rd/3rd. A guy sitting behind us during the day said he was a provisional but was voting for Romney slate as someone on 2nd place's team brought him there (he was a democrat until recently). So that makes 2nd place's total be 116 and 3rd/4th be 116 too. That leaves 4 envelopes left. if we each get 2 envelopes then it's a tie and Romney's chair determines the victor which would not be us (but we'd still get 2 of three). We had to get 3 out of the 4 left to outright win and get all three slots.

I wish someone could watch that. Also, I am a bit nervous about my vote counting. My wife mailed it certified the day before the deadline, but I honestly don't trust the party counting everyone's votes. When I asked a simple question out loud the chair went on and on about how many reasons someone's provisional ballot may not count. It was as if he was trying to set the tone for them not being counted. Anyone know how I can be sure mine counted?

some encouragement

most Romney votes who went to vote at the caucus are probably hardcore republicans and have been republicans for years. The only people who would have to cast a provisional ballots are ones who registered right near the deadline (which some Ron Paul supporters did). So, I think that you have a GREAT chance at sweeping district 6. In my case, there are 13 provisional ballots and I'm behind by 6. I've discovered that at least 10 of those people voted for me and maybe only 2 or 3 of them would be disqualified for some reason. So stay confident!

Beat the System

Caught in the undertow being swept downstream
Going against the flow seems like such a dream
Trying to hold your ground when you start to slide
Pressure to compromise comes from every side
Wise up, rise up

You can be more than a conqueror, you will never face defeat
You can dare to win by losing all, you can face the heat - dare to
Beat the System

On the assembly line trying to break the mold
Time to throw the wrench that will stop it cold
Going against the odds being the underdog
Dare to wield the sword that will slice the fog

You can go for it all
You can go for broke
You can turn the tide around
You can aim for the top
And take the lion's share
If you dare to hold your ground

tasmlab's picture

The secretive provisionals could tip either way

It seemed like a tool they could use to change the outcome. If we only had brought a dozen more supporters it would've been a confident sweep.

It's amazing how few people it takes!

Currently consuming: Gatto: "Underground history of education..", FDR; Wii U; NEP Football

11 remaining delegates

Who votes on the remaining 11 delegates at the state meeting? Here is wht greenpapers says. Anyone know?

"Friday 15 June 2012 (tentative): Deadline for State Committee Meeting. 11 At-Large delegates are elected according to the results of the primary."

care to explain how you arrived at that conclusion?

"Q: What about the other 11 delegates that are selected? Who gets those?
A: The additional 11 delegates will all be Romney delegates or State Party dignitaries (Also Romney Hacks). These delegates will be bound to Romney for the first ballot."


Its in the MA GOP rules. I'd list everyone that gets a vote but its just a bunch of party officer positions + people designated by Romney. If we had done better electing State Committee members on Super Tuesday we would have had a better chance of getting officers in. Unfortunately they are all Romney people.

Here is the link to the rules, its in the bottom few pages: http://massgop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/MassGOP-Bylaws....