155 votes

“A rogue convention? How GOP party rules may surprise in 2012”

Hello fellow patriots. This is my first post here, although I have been following the action for the past several months. I am 40 years old and this is the first time that I have even considered voting as a Republican. Go figure! Kudos to all of you for your incredible dedication and hard work! You are an inspiration!

Anyway, to get to the point, I found some information that may be helpful...

"As set out in the Rules of the Republican Party, delegates have the ability to vote according to the delegates’ preference, even if that is contrary to the outcome of each state’s primary. According to one source, the legal counsel for the Republican National Convention in 2008 stated: “[The] RNC does not recognize a state’s binding of national delegates, but considers each delegate a free agent who can vote for whoever they choose.” Thus, if a delegate were to challenge his or her ability to vote as a free agent, he or she would have grounds under Rule 38."

This comes from: http://www.fairvote.org/response-to-a-rogue-convention-how-g...

RULE NO. 38
Unit Rule
"No delegate or alternate delegate shall be bound by any attempt of any state or Congressional district to impose the unit rule."

Directly from: The Rules of the Republican Party
As Adopted
by the 2008 Republican National Convention
September 1, 2008

*Amended by the
Republican National Committee
on August 6, 2010

Please exercise your due diligence and obviously don't take my word for anything, but I just wanted to share what I thought was relevant.

To all of you, God Bless!

A pretty good summary of delegate rules and binding:

http://sites.google.com/site/republicanselect/then-there-wer...

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Any reason to vote in the first Round?

We don't see Paul winning first round, therefore it seems whether you vote Paul or abstain in the first, you are doing just as much to block Romney. So why take the chance? If you're bound just abstain and wait for round 2.

I can't see that it matters

between abstaining and voting for someone else, e.g. :-

Romney delegates 1200
Of those 60 abstain
Result 1140 delegates to Romney

Romney delegates 1200
Of those 60 vote for someone else
Result 1140 delegates to Romney.
+60 to Ron Paul

Both result in a 2nd ballot.

The 60 abstaining don't get subject to any penalties.
The 60 who vote for someone else might.

So just abstain.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

Abstaining

may not be enough since delegates from Gingrich and Santorum may switch to Romney.

Irrelevant

to the abstention/vote for someone else argument above.

But we do also need to persuade Gingrich/Santorum delegates not to switch to Romney if they are released.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

Fox news

Incidentally using Fox News bias for Romney is a good way of persuading Gingrich/Santorum people not to switch to Romney.
I know several that have been deeply upset by Fox's coverage of the Nomination.
It is not just Ron Paul people that don't like Fox News.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

RNC has been very clear:

National Convention delegates are not bound by state party rules. The state party may censure you or even throw you out of the party if you disregard your agreement.

But your vote stands as you cast it in Tampa.

FYI, you can also abstain from voting, which is completely within ALL state rules, and be unbound on the second or third ballot. Imagine if Romney has it "wrapped up" and gets to Tampa with 1144 delegates bound, then 500 of those delegates abstain on the first ballot.

Mass hysteria.

It's a free for all after the first ballot. Anyone can be nominated, anyone can jump in. Lots of "I guess" Romney delegates will defect, but I am positive that few, if any, Paul delegates will switch. If there is a brokered convention, Paul will win.

Technically not true

Some states have stipulations that "you must do your best to vote for your candidate, until XXXXX criteria is met". There are also "non-rules" at the state level that can prevent bound delegates from voting for who they want (on the first ballot). Here is an example from Michigan:

Taken from:

Michigan Republican Party
Memorandum
TO: County Chairs & Secretaries
FROM: Kim Jorns – Executive Director
CC: Steven Ostrow – Political Director
Gary Koutsoubos – Deputy Political Director
DATE: March 28, 2012
RE: County Convention Materials

...................
PLEASE NOTE:

...(some other notes)...

PRESIDENTIAL PREFERENCE FORM: All candidates for National convention delegates and alternates
MUST complete the Presidential Preference Form and return to Credentials Committee (cc: Gary
Koutsoubos at gkoutsoubos@migop.org) prior to 6pm, Friday, May 18
th
. This form will serve as the
delegate’s automatic vote should they be elected to the National Convention.

(end copy + paste)

This would seem to imply that at the state level, you are forced to submit your preference form to the "Credentials Committee", BEFORE you even vote on becoming a national delegate! Is this to weed-out some people?

Who cares what a State chair has to say in this matter

since it is clear that National GOP says different.

We have one shot at this so lets make it count.

November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

As I understand it

"bound" delegates are free to vote for others. That is the secret.
Bound delegates just "pledge" to a private entity, it is not a legal contract that can cause a legal action. The worst is to lose party membership.

From the National Review: "There’s even historical precedent for last-minute vote switching. In 1976, for instance, Delaware was pledged for Gerald Ford, but a few renegades voted for Ronald Reagan on the first ballot. One rebel, three-term congressman Pete du Pont, “went on to run for governor,” remembers Priscilla Rakestraw, Republican national committeewoman for Delaware. Because Ford won anyway, Rakestraw adds, “There were no penalties.”

Exactly!

Exactly!

OOPS! This was in reference to the post right below me.

"bound" and "unbound" delegates

It would seem to me that advice from an attorney on this Rule would be important to verify before Convention time. That way, ALL delegates would know where they stand before attempting to follow a Rule that we WANT to be true, but isn't. If this Rule can be taken at face value....SWEET!!

Just don't let Flipper get near the 1144

What are the chances of Flip having at least 1144 pledged before the convention? If he doesn't have that, the cronies can't call for the Affirmation vote. Consider that the only way he could possibly get there would be for Grinch and Santorum to release their delegates. But if they did that, they'd risk many of them going to the RP camp. Hmmmm, a bit of a pickle.

If you are not OUTRAGED, you're not paying attention!

Doesn't matter if Willard gets 1144

MANY of those delegates will be Paul supporters, and well educated, well instructed, and fanatic about NOT voting for Romney.

It may even be GOOD for Ron PAul if the perception is that Romney has 1144... His delegate gathering will be completely under the radar then.

Does that mean?

Does that mean that 1st vote delegates aren't really bound? So, technically, even if Romney (according to MSM) got 1144 votes, they may betray him on the first vote and elect Ron Paul?

There is flexibility

There is Flexibility

Yes, that is exactly what it means.

The state elections many have been corrupt, but it will be impossible to be that way at the NRC.

This is why so many of the Romney camp is so nervous.

Ron Paul's campaign is snow balling, rolling along and growing. It can't be stopped and it can't be ignored.

Now, whenever there is news anywhere about the Republican anything, Rom Paul's name is mentioned.

This is also the year the voters are going to be coming out of the cracks to vote for Dr. Paul.

James

Why we have ballots

The simple fact is that secret ballots exist so that voters everywhere [including US presidential electors] quite literally can not be coerced by ANYONE to vote against their conscience. All of those talking about "rogue" delegates and electors breaking pledges are victims or perpetrators of partisan propaganda going back to 19th century when secret ballots were [re]introduced to elections.

It is time we spread the word, and not just among Ron Paul supporters.

End the fraud - report the Fed and its complicit media to an FBI office near you. For more details go here: http://www.nolanchart.com/article/print.php?ArticleID=5928

To my knowledge the new rules

To my knowledge the new rules for the party are decided AFTER each convention. Meaning, even if they wanted to, they can't change the game at this stage of the process. The soonest they could plug this "hole" would be after the convention in Tampa has already decided its nominee. They then vote on any rules or changes to the party. So like it or not, they are stuck with this rule through to Tampa.

Although you better believe they are going to keep trying to play other rules against us. Our big wall at the moment, is being able to say we have 5 state plurality. Until after the state conventions and the delegates are locked in (don't want a repeat of ND where we thought we had it in the bag) then we should be able to exercise this unbinding of bound delegates, even before the first vote. I believe it is at the point, we will be able to stand a chance. But we have to ensure we stay on top of the rules ourselves, for any loop holes they will try to get us on this year, because they know we are coming, and they are trying to stop us.

I'm pretty sure the rules committee meets first.

And I'm positive that motions will be heard from the floor, where rules can be changed by the body.

Including to unbind all delegates officially.

If we have a majority we can take over the national convention just like we do county and state.

Double Bumpty Bump Bump

.

☁ ☁ ☁ ☁ ☁☁☁☁
_‟[]______▓_▓_▓__[[]]≔ .... .... ....✷ittens
__◉__◉__◉__◉__◉__◉__◉___[[]]≔ .... .... ....✷bummer
░░░░░░░░U.S.S Ron Paul░░░░░░░@◤
≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋≋

This is much like chess

in that I believe the different campaigns and the establishment know full well about this possibility and have already begun their contingency planning. Keeping it hush-hush might seem like a good plan in the spirit of Sun Tzu. However, there is also the notion of confusing the opposition and doing the exact opposite of what they think you are going to do. Bringing this information out is, in essence, a tactical move on some levels.

"Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth." - George Washington

If information like this is

If information like this is spread willfully, I say the main objective is to influence citizens/voters.

Purpose:

1. Make it clear that the race isn't over until a candidate has won a majority in a convention ballot.

2. Increase the incentive to go vote in primaries to come, and to participate in caucuses and state conventions to come.

3. Increase the incentive to donate to the campaign and super-pacs.

Some time, Rock, when the team is up against it, when things are wrong and the breaks are beating the boys, ask them to go in there with all they've got and win just one for the Gipper.

In my humble opinion, it's

In my humble opinion, it's about being educated and learning to play the game better than your competition. Playing by their rules and being effective is part of the victory...

Yes.

We are playing by their rules, and THEY are cheating.

Please, Please, Please

get a clue that certain things need to be kept off the public forums! I don't know how to help move this down or off of here, but it really needs to be done.

Agreed. This needs to be VERIFIED first.

That and some tact. Anyway, if it is true, then its pretty promising.

Concern about Infowars

The delegate strategy is boss, we all know this and we're seeing the fruits of our hard work come to full bloom. This however should not be announced so publicly, specifically from Alex Jone's pulpit. He has many viewers which include Romney supporters. We can't afford to tell them our plans or at least we can't afford to give them the whole apple.

Ron Paul is a man of Character and we plan on using the full scope of election rules to get him voted in, but what we don't want to have happen is an amendment to any of those rules before the election because then we could find ourselves doing something ilegal that was previously legal and based on that technicality get thrown out.

Just keep it on the DL ;)

SOMEONE PLEASE PLEASE POST THIS ON DP!!!!!

NEW RAP SONG (DR. KNOW STATESMAN)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3jDtk3C8eA

Solid Gold

Yes post. Great lyrics and nice melody.

beephree

GET TO INFOWARS.COM NOW!!!!!!

Alex Jones is back on board.He is talking to Matt Larson right now,and he's backing the delegate strategy to the hilt. www.infowars.com

Some see things as they are and say why,but i dream things that never were and say why not. Robert F. Kennedy

Thanks for the posting!

Definitely appreciate your comments, even though it appears states get by this rule via the superdelegates.

Thanks again! Keep them coming.