UPDATE : 5-11 Urgent : Ben Swann And Matt Larson Are Wrong About RULE 38 And Delegates Being Unbound Based On RNC Rules
Submitted by Neverquit on Fri, 05/04/2012 - 14:03Just please for the love of God listen and read carefully, this is important.
The talk about rule 38 being in conflict of rule 15 IS INCORRECT.
Rule 38 pertains to the Unit Rule which states very clearly :
No delegate or alternate delegate shall be bound by any attempt of any state or Congressional district to impose the unit rule.
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To debate this rule you must first understand what the UNIT RULE IS
This is defined very clearly in your state bylaws as well as the meriam websters dictionary. UNIT RULE MEANS : :
A rule under which a delegation to a national political convention casts its entire vote as a unit as determined by a majority vote.
The key word here is ENTIRE :
The states get around this rule by not binding the ENTIRE group of delegates, they always have at least 1 delegate unbound and it is usually 3 unbound delegates. So they are not enforcing a UNIT RULE in any way.
Therefore; rule 38 does not apply to the argument.
If the delegates are going to be succesful at the convention it is important that they are getting the proper information on the rules as they are written.
Now please stop with rule 38 because Ben Swann is incorrect as are most people pushing this agenda.
You need to be looking at abstaining and what your state bylaws state about abstaining.
UPDATED : I was not WRONG and I knew 100% I was not wrong or I would not have made this post, I was attempting to make sure people weren''t going to try to utilize rule 38 as argument in the wrong manner because it would have hurt the delegates. I was also trying not to say what Ben Swann just said at this moment in time.
If you read my comments on this subject even in this post I state I would talk about other things later, well I guess later is now.
So now that everyone knows not to use rule 38 in the wrong manner and they are free to do what they wish at the convention as far as a delegate vote, they also need to look at what penalty could be enforced on them by their state if they break state party rules should Ron Paul not get enough delegates to clinch the nomination.
As I stated in my post the if delegates are to be successful make sure they are getting the proper information on the rules as they are written.
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Indeed he is
8)
http://wilco287.com
Here it is on the Youtubes...
http://youtu.be/Flt1dOn6wJY
NICE! Thanks!!
First post! :)
MITTENS IS GOING DOWN!!!! :-D
If a Ron Paul Supporter
Willingly pulls that vote for Romney on the first round you will pay. If I was a delegate I'd get shot infront of the convention before I pull a lever for Romney. That's just me and I know many of you feel that way that it is ron paul or none at all. One for ron and ron for all but to vote for Romney because you "have too" f that. Grow a pair tell them no and you will be voting on the second round anything other than that is considered treason among patriots. Screw them screw their rules you will be the one sitting in Tampa and you change the course of history.
Rule 38 Is In Effect
Rule 38 isn't referring to Super delegates obviously. What is it referring too? RNC law trumps state rules. Any lawyer could see these rules as ambiguous. All delegates are unbound.
guys!!! rule 38 is
guys!!! rule 38 is irrelevant, ben swann even said so on his facebook wall, but it doesn't matter! you can abstain, heres all the proof you need see update III http://www.dailypaul.com/230735/doug-wead-joins-stossel-in-p...
The rule breakers have set the precident
After all of the corruption and rule breaking committed by the RNC, I say turnabout is fair play. Every delegate at the national convention should vote as they wish. Let the power of our movement be heard with a thunderous clap.
That's a terrible idea. We've
That's a terrible idea. We've gotten where we are by following the rules. We don't want mayhem. We want whoever wins to win fairly and squarely.
What about this? Reagan
What about this?
Reagan 1976
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19760721&id=Ea...
“In secret strategy sessions, Reagan aides have toyed with the idea of asking delegates to abstain as long as their state laws require them to honor the primary verdicts. This would prevent the President from riding up an early-ballot victory. Then, in subsequent ballots, they could legally switch to Reagan.
That was nine conventions ago.
Even then, Ford's forces were talking about passing a resolution to deal with it. I think the thing about the superdelegates or what ever they're called, is what they came up with to get around it.
Most states don't enforce the unit rule
There is always at least 1 unbound delegate always from state delegations to get around the unit rule which means that rule 38 is still a possibility.
I see what you are saying,
I see what you are saying, and agree with it mostly, with a little bit of extra information you need to include, at no point and time, has anyone in the history of America, ever been prosecuted for not voting for the assigned delegate. Please look it up. I dare ya :)
And just out of curiosity, what grounds would make it illegal? What law and codes? Just because the RNC says so doesn't mean they can create laws. The RNC is a public group, and all they could do is kick the offender out. And that's if they knew who lol. Do you really think the people who are stealth delegates will mind maybe a fine? If so, you don't know Ron Paul supporters.
I see what you are saying
I'll 2nd that - Ron Paul delegates, like myselft to the Texas convention, will not ever vote for anyone other than Ron Paul and support the people who have made in-roads to go onto national. I wish I knew the number of RP delegates to our convention, officially. Also, we have done our research and all of the down ballot CISPA supporters are finished. Yeah, I don't think you can be prosecuted for voting a different way. I do know that you can be fined and prosecuted if you participate in another party's convention and you took an oath with the GOP. But as far as voting goes - Ron Paul is more republican than Mittack Obamney anyday, and no matter what - it's Ron Paul or it's Ron Paul. Thanks for letting me rant.
Delegate Fine Fund.
If a fine is involved maybe we should start a delegate fine fund to help pay for it. After all, this is a group effort.
States that bind every single delegate
1. South Carolina - 25 delegates
2. Nevada - 28 delegates
3. Florida - 50 delegates
4. Arizona - 29 delegates
5. Michigan - 30 delegates
6. Georgia - 76 delegates
7. Idaho - 32 delegates
8. Vermont - 17 delegates
9. Kansas - 40 delegates
10. Maryland - 37 delegates
11. Wisconsin - 42 delegates
12. Delaware - 17 delegates
13. New Jersey - 50 delegates
14. Utah - 40 delegates
Feel free to discuss.
But they're not all bound to
But they're not all bound to the same candidate, at least some of those are proportional states. The unit rule implies that they must all vote for the same candidate.
In Idaho, they're all bound to the results of caucuses in each county. Romney happened to win them all, but not because of a unit rule.
In Kansas, some delegates are for Romney, others for Santorum. Again, they're not all voting as a unit. See?
Check out each state on Green Papers. Even if they're all bound, I'll bet none of them impose a unit rule.
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Neverquit here is
one last thing. Lets say as a delegate I am bound to a candidate. One hour before the vote I find out that he is a child molester. Now are you saying that I still have to vote for him even though he has done something that is against everything I stand for? What you are saying does not even make any sense. You are saying that if I am bound it is written in blood. Tell me, how did the ones in 2008 abstain from voting? Yes there were delegates who abstained. Look it up.
Abstaining is just fine,
Abstaining is just fine, before you critisize me you might want to actually read what was written.
My post is about bad information or atleast in part bad information that could be disatrous at the RNC for Paul delegates pertaining to the Unit Rule and being bound.
Feel free to abstain that is just fine, I wrote that abstaining is exactly what everyone needs to be looking at if they can't use rule 38 in their favor.
question
so if a delegate abstains in round 1,can he/she still vote in the following rounds?
yes
yes
Neverquit you may
want to read this. Just who's side are you on anyway? The legal counsel for the Republican National Convention in 2008 stated: "The RNC does not recognize a state's binding of national delegates, but considers each delegate a free agent who can vote for whoever they choose". See that part with says "considers each delegate a free agent"? Just what do you not understand about that? What is all this crap about states unbinding one delegate so as to bypass rule 38. If they did that then that would be as crooked as a dogs hind leg. If you just unbind one then what the RNC said in 2008 would mean nothing.
Please read this so we can get a break from you.
http://www.randpaulreview.com/2012/04/30/response-to-a-rogue...
I base my information on what
Who's side am I on? I am trying to make sure you guys don't get screwed at the convention based on BAD INFO.
I base my information on what is WRITTEN in the RNC Call, not what someone wrote on a 3rd party website. You need to have the facts not opinion.
The only things you should be looking at as a delegate are your own state bylaws and the RNC Call. Thos are the only things in print that matter.
Some States Do Bind All Delegates
Not true, there are at least several states which do bind *all* delegates and are "winner take all".
These are (for a total of 255 delegates):
Florida, Arizona, Idaho, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, & Utah
So rule 38 would apply to *at least* those states.
No unit rule
None of these states have a unit rule.
In Idaho, delegates were allocated at the county caucus level; it just so happens Romney won at every county, so he got all the state's delegates. That doesn't mean they're all bound to him by a unit rule.
"Any candidate winning more than 50% or more of a county's vote will be awarded that entire county's share of National Delegates."
Now if that had said "state" instead of "county" then, yes, unit rule. But they were bound at the county level, not state.
"When neither candidate wins more than 50% of the vote, the candidates split the county's share of National Convention Delegates, in proportion to the candidates' county vote totals [Rules Article VI Section 4:]."
And if Romney hadn't gotten 51% of the vote in each of those counties, other candidates would've gotten delegates.
Anyway... check out the rules for each of those states. No unit rule.
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/ID-R
The GOP doesn't follow rules anyway...
so why should the Conservative/Constitutional-Ron Paulers. I am so sick of the Republican party, and I have been in it for over 25 years. Ron Paul, and his campaign know what they are doing, and will give the right info to those delegates, stop being such a wet blanket, and thinking we can't win. I know we can win, I bet my life, and all that I have to keep my country from going under, and by that I mean all of us that are willing to work together to shut out those that want big government, and lobbyist controlling our Country.
Dammit -Stop already
Quit acting like children. We are in this for the long haul. RP's campaign know what they are doing. We are in this for the long haul, quit looking for a quick fix!
I am a freaking
delegate to the National Convention from GA. And yes we know what we are doing. It is people like this "Neverquit" that jerks my chain. The guy who made this post is right, we know what we are doing. Do you think we have worked our rear ends off and will more than likely spend thousands of our own dollars to go the the RNC with our heads up our rear ends? I don't think so. Neverquit get this straight. If I were so called bound to Romney they would have to break my neck before I would vote on the first round for him.
How much money are you spending?
I think RP supporters can kick in a few $$ to support our delegates. I'd love to have a bunch of supporters kick in $5-$10 and support the people who are doing the "heaviest lifting"
I hope every delegate thinks like you!
You are free!
Ron Paul or no one!
Take enough water with you..will be hot in Tampa!