36 votes

UPDATE : 5-11 Urgent : Ben Swann And Matt Larson Are Wrong About RULE 38 And Delegates Being Unbound Based On RNC Rules

Just please for the love of God listen and read carefully, this is important.

The talk about rule 38 being in conflict of rule 15 IS INCORRECT.

Rule 38 pertains to the Unit Rule which states very clearly :

No delegate or alternate delegate shall be bound by any attempt of any state or Congressional district to impose the unit rule.

----------------

To debate this rule you must first understand what the UNIT RULE IS

This is defined very clearly in your state bylaws as well as the meriam websters dictionary. UNIT RULE MEANS : :

A rule under which a delegation to a national political convention casts its entire vote as a unit as determined by a majority vote.

The key word here is ENTIRE :

The states get around this rule by not binding the ENTIRE group of delegates, they always have at least 1 delegate unbound and it is usually 3 unbound delegates. So they are not enforcing a UNIT RULE in any way.

Therefore; rule 38 does not apply to the argument.

If the delegates are going to be succesful at the convention it is important that they are getting the proper information on the rules as they are written.

Now please stop with rule 38 because Ben Swann is incorrect as are most people pushing this agenda.

You need to be looking at abstaining and what your state bylaws state about abstaining.

UPDATED : I was not WRONG and I knew 100% I was not wrong or I would not have made this post, I was attempting to make sure people weren''t going to try to utilize rule 38 as argument in the wrong manner because it would have hurt the delegates. I was also trying not to say what Ben Swann just said at this moment in time.

If you read my comments on this subject even in this post I state I would talk about other things later, well I guess later is now.

So now that everyone knows not to use rule 38 in the wrong manner and they are free to do what they wish at the convention as far as a delegate vote, they also need to look at what penalty could be enforced on them by their state if they break state party rules should Ron Paul not get enough delegates to clinch the nomination.

As I stated in my post the if delegates are to be successful make sure they are getting the proper information on the rules as they are written.



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Just vote for Paul

and claim the rule its not like the GOP knows or follows them anyways.

bump

love your idea

Now i'm all confused.......


Can the Campaign itself clear this issue up, and provide the correct instructions/strategy?


This would mean that States

This would mean that States such as Florida, Arizona, Massachusetts, Idaho, Maryland, Washington D.C., and Connecticut are ALL in violation of this rule because all of their delegates are bound to one person.

What about this rule:

Rule No.

"A motion to suspend the rules shall always be
in order, but only when made by authority of a majority
of the delegates from any state and seconded by a
majority of the delegates from each of five (5) or more
other states severally."

This means that if enough of the delegates are Ron Paul supporters, they can suspend the rules and vote to unbind all the delegates. This is a much better alternative to abstaining because we can be sure that it is allowed.

Brad

And lets not forget

that two RP supporters are on the rules committee for the RNC.

Brilliant!

That's brilliant! This needs to be investigated more thoroughly.

Blow, wind! Come, wrack! At least we'll die with harness on our back!

yes

Take the damn thing over from the get-go.

We are the majority, and from what I've seen Romney's "support" is ... contrived ...artificial ... strained ... forced ... feigned ... fake ... phony ... pretended ... unnatural ... manufactured ... fraudulent.

You Guys Aren't Reading

You guys need to read the posts below and elsewhere.

The Unit Rule is a specific condition, and does not apply to many of these states.

Wishing won't make it so.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

"No delegate or alternate

"No delegate or alternate delegate shall be bound by any attempt of any state or Congressional district to impose a rule under which a delegation to a national political convention casts its entire vote as a unit as determined by a majority vote."

In other words...

No delegate shall be bound by ANY attempt of ANY State to impose a rule that FORCES a state delegation to cast their votes as a unit determined by majority vote.

In the simplest of words...

No delegate shall be bound or forced to vote for anyone if they don't want to.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

That seems pretty plain to

That seems pretty plain to me. What am I missing here? What is the debate? I have been following this today and I don't understand how this isn't clear enough for some of us to understand. I am not trying to be divisive and I certainly understand that I can be missing something in my thinking.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

"No delegate or alternate

"No delegate or alternate delegate shall be bound by any attempt of any state or Congressional district to impose a rule under which a delegation to a national political convention casts its entire vote as a unit as determined by a majority vote."

HOW BLACK AND WHITE CAN THIS BE?

THIS BENEFITS US! Read it again!

"Therefore; rule 38 does not apply to the argument."

Based on what?! You're stretching things beyond reason based on the word, "entire." Do you want to get into what the word, "unit," means too?

Ben Swann and Matt Larson have been on the money with their reporting. They're not mincing words.

"There are thirty states where delegates are able to vote for whomever they chose, regardless of primary and caucus results."

http://www.examiner.com/article/ron-paul-delegates-may-have-...

Some states have bound delegates, like Taxxachusetts....other states have unbound delegates, like Texas.

According to "the rules," (cough) above...they're basically saying that state delegates can not be forced by another state delegation to vote for Romney.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

Until you know for an absolute fact ....

... do you really think that you can contest one of the cornerstones of the neo-con machine, ... don't you think it's wise to check all your bases?

Seriously Zoo, the OP's intention here is the same as what I was going to be posting later tonight.
GET THE FACTS

The definitions of "Unit Rule" and "Entire" and the whole meaning of Rule 38 is not entirely well known, and the OP's research on this matter should not be over looked.

Ben Swann and Matt Larson have jumped the gun on this, and Matt Larson has jumped the gun on more than a couple of issues now.
Both of them are drawing light to a potential land-side for the RP movement, but I think that even Ben Swann mentioned that he is looking into the specifics.

DON'T GET HASTY!

We're the "Good Guys" right? If that's so, then remember that patience is one of OUR virtues, and anxiety is NOT one of our strengths.

They are not jumping

the gun on this one because they are correct. Here again read.
http://www.randpaulreview.com/2012/04/30/response-to-a-rogue...

I mean it says what it says. If you are a delegate then drag your rear end to the National Convention, grow a pair, and if you are a Romney delegate then abstain from voting on the first round. Rule 38 will back you up because it is in back and white. If any delegate were to challenge his or her ability to vote as a free agent, he or she would have grounds under rule 38. Will they scream if you do this? Sure they will but just let them scream. Like I said grow a pair.

10X thumbs up

.

I wish Doug Wead would clear this issue up.

But I know there are strategic reasons for keeping it 'up in the air'. We will just have to be patient until the time comes. Man, I've got a headache from reading all the comments to this post!

"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"- Homer Simpson

Advil anyone? The campaign

Advil anyone? The campaign knows whats up. Those of us that move on to national delegate seats will be posted when the time is right. Still, it would be nice to have this cleared up so we can all start getting along again.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

I have faith in the campaign

If there wasn't a way around this, they wouldn't be wasting their time and money. Patience is the best course of action for the moment. I think I'll take a break from the DP before my head explodes. Good night all.

"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"- Homer Simpson

The truth

You cannot be bound by state rules at a national convention.

Vote your conscience.

No this is an incorrect post

true they do get around it by leaving 3 or so delegates unbound, the problem comes in when those three or so delegates are not "elected" as per the requirement, which is through some type of convention process. Those unbound delegates are usually appointed or were elected via the state central committee, the state central committee is elected but not by the proper means, so that means there are no truly unbound delegates and then the unit rule kicks in.

Take a breath

Everyone calm done and take direction from those running the campaign.
They know all this and will act accordingly and direct us per state & local. If we start believing everything told us because it sounds good we are our own worst enemy and not helping Dr Paul. Stand strong, act adult, work as a team, take direction. Don't for a moment think anyone has found a loop hole to a win. Life doesn't work that way. Be smart, not annoying. No disrespect...

Best bit of advice I have

Best bit of advice I have seen this whole thread. This isn't taking the campaign by surprise and it shouldn't us either. National delegates will be made aware of the facts prior to Tampa and since they are the only ones that can do anything about it we should let them worry about it and get back to winning people over to the good guys side.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

As seen on a poster: "Learn all the rules.....

.....then go break a few!"

Thanx,

Jason

You can't get clean in a dirty bathtub.

Desperate times calls for desperate measures.

They cheat, they game the system, they steal your money, sacrifice your children, claim to own you, attempt to degrade you , elevate themselves to a level where they convince you they are above the rules and you are bound by them. I SAY give me liberty at all costs if you would die for liberty, you shouldn't be worried about violating some imaginary fiction called rules, if they wanna play dirty, guess what so can we liberty at all costs includes shattering their rules regulations. They can eat it and so can their rule book this is our lives at stake. Whether swann is right or wrong, it doesn't matter achieving liberty does matter. For liberty , your brother in Christ.

What about

motioning to suspend all rules based on the RNC and Mittens violation of rule 11?
Violation of rule 11 is undeniable.
If a majority won that, would the delegates then be unbound and justified to vote their conscience?

Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

John Adams

We need to WIN Texas and

We need to WIN Texas and California, so that this is NOT an issue! If you are in a state that hasn't voted yet figure out what YOU must do to win your county, or city for Dr. Paul, (the beauty contest, popular election) and then GET OUT THERE AND DO IT!

Already on it.

And the rest of you should be phone banking.

You would be right IF...

..IF the historical treatment of Rule 38 was how you described. It is however not and even members the RNC Rules Committee agree to THIS historical interpretation of Rule 38:

There has never been any legal obligation for a delegate to vote according to instructions from their state.

For more information please follow this link: http://www.fairvote.org/response-to-a-rogue-convention-how-g...

Add to the fact that RNC rules supersede local and state party rules and the binding of delegates in essentially nullified.

I wish you guys would READ my prepared writings on this topic before jumping to post misleading, discouraging and incorrect information.

What is the point of having free will if one cannot spit in the eye of the destiny others leave you with? #ActorofConscience
www.twitter.com/HectorinMiami

Please show documentation on this statement..

"..even members the RNC Rules Committee agree to THIS historical interpretation of Rule 38:.." I'm just curious where you saw that.

"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"- Homer Simpson

BUT, do they need to be

BUT, do they need to be looking at their STATE bylaws, or the National bylaws? Unless a delegate is from Florida, they will be out of their states jurisdiction and therefore the state laws will NOT apply! I am just throwing this out there for thought!

First off these are not state

First off these are not state laws, they are political party CONTRACTS. Second, just because you are out of a boundary does not mean that jurisdiction is gone, jurisdiction is not a boundary. Its like if you are a US Citizen you are under the jurisdiction of the the IRS no matter which state anywhere in the world you reside within. Just because you are outside the boundary does not relieve you of the jurisdiction.

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