New Hampshire Results - Main Open Thread
Submitted by Michael Nystrom on Tue, 01/08/2008 - 20:02
Can we consolidate the conversation here? Check the results here.
As of 8pm ET:
McCain, John - 13,473 - 37%
Romney, Mitt - 10,032 - 28%
Huckabee, Mike - 4,398 - 12%
Giuliani, Rudy - 3,303 - 9%
Paul, Ron - 3,096 - 9%
»
If we assume there was no fraud...
...then a very large percentage of the voters must not have even looked at the ballot and chosen randomly:
http://www.roadrec.com/McCain4Peace.gif
44% of those who dissapprove of the Iraq War chose McCain? "Bomb Iran" McCain? 100 years in Iraq McCain?
There is no hope whatsoever for this country if that many people are that stupid. The optimist in me hopes they are not that stupid... and that it actually was election fraud.
.
.
you mean Mr. 9/12??
i prefer to refer to the ghoul as mr. 9/12 as thats the day he became an expert on 9/11
Mr 9/11 strikes again?
Check out Rudy Giuliani's results on www.politico.com for the following three towns - Campton, Hampton and Sandwich. He got 9.11% for all three places. What are the odds of that?
This PROVES he's in league
This PROVES he's in league with the devil! ;)
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
Here's the link...
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/giuliani_nh_911.html
Whats going on in Dixville and Millsfield ?
PAUL 0 VOTES ----------- "DIXVILLE, - "Hand Counted Paper Ballots"
PAUL 0 VOTES ----------- "MILLSFIELD"-"Hand Counted Paper Ballots"
Has anyone heard any Q/A on these two towns in the north, I've heard other reports but nothing on these two.
BOYCOTT CORPORATE MEDIA
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Dixville Notch has something
Dixville Notch has something like 14 registered voters. Same with Millsfield. I have no problem believing nobody voted for Paul. Besides, Dixville voted at midnight and their results were counted live on local TV. There's no vote fraud in those two cities.
? for those in New Hampshire
I am curious about your on the ground insights about Rockingham County. It seems that Guilliani got almost 1500 more votes than Paul in this single county (according to sos.nh.gov) and that played a big part in us losing to him by 2000 or so votes. Do you have any info such as demographics, intensity level of the campaigns in this area, that might help us understand?
For Liberty,
Becky Blauvelt
Formerly Known as Hestia
yeah, nobody answered that good question!
I went to the SOS website also and Rockingham made all the difference in the outcome. Paul outpolled Giuliani in the smaller counties and was roughly even/tad behind in the more populous ones with the exception of Rockingham.
There must either be some demographic issue there and the campaign failed to address it.
Interesting to note that two counties still have not posted their final tallies on that website.
With 8 of 10 reporting: Giuliani 13,031 Paul 11,938
Hence, so far, it was Rockingham County that gave it to Giuliani. Even a shift of 600 votes turns it around (not that Giuliani voters are a fertile ground for Paul).
Playing into there hand!
After reading this board, I really can't understand why everyone is so down after the Iowa *straw* poll and the New Hampshire Primary. If anyone has the right to be down, it is Giuliani and Fred Thompson. They got beat by a supposed fringe, long-shot, cooky candidate. The MSM gave them the best coverage money could buy. Every manipulation in the world couldn't get them to beat Ron Paul in Iowa and NH, respectively. When we started this campaign I felt like only 1-2% of Americans were aware of the tyranny and economic strife we faced. We have now have awoken 10% of the U.S. and many in the entire world(that might even prove to be more in other states). We are not simply persuading voters with sound-bites and a popularity contest, we are educating and bringing people out of a deep sleep. Every person we enlighten is not only a voter, but a soldier, with a mission to fight the establishment that has taken over our country. If the U.S. progresses to a more severe economical and political situation, these newcomers will be standing by our side in the fight(regardless of who is elected). People have been asleep for a long time, so it will take much effort to undo the damage that has happened. Unlike our forefathers who had no voice in their battle for freedom, we still own this country and no matter what they try to make us believe, we still can take back control. Don't forget that one of the main things most people like about Ron Paul, is that he is not a "top-down" guy and tends to let the people stay in control. Most grassroots campaigns have imploded by this time and would have never reached this level of support. He has been a great leader by keeping us on track with the message and setting a good example. It is so easy to forget the way our system of Government is supposed to work and he constantly reminds us of that. He knows that we are ultimately in charge and that we have the power to make it happen. Not him! If you are wanting a campaign that is bloated and micromanages everything with high power political professionals, this is not it. We have a network of dedicated true patriots that is larger than any amassed in the past. This does not hinge on Ron Paul anymore. We must continue even if he drops out tomorrow.
IT'S NOT ABOUT DOWN AND UP
IT'S ABOUT TRUTH AND LIE!
WE CAN NOT LEAVE THIS AND GO.
Playing into there hand!
After reading this board, I really can't understand why everyone is so down after the Iowa *straw* poll and the New Hampshire Primary. If anyone has the right to be down, it is Giuliani and Fred Thompson. They got beat by a supposed fringe, long-shot, cooky candidate. The MSM gave them the best coverage money could buy. Every manipulation in the world couldn't get them to beat Ron Paul in Iowa and NH, respectively. When we started this campaign I felt like only 1-2% of Americans were aware of the tyranny and economic strife we faced. We have now have awoken 10% of the U.S. and many in the entire world(that might even prove to be more in other states). We are not simply persuading voters with sound-bites and a popularity contest, we are educating and bringing people out of a deep sleep. Every person we enlighten is not only a voter, but a soldier, with a mission to fight the establishment that has taken over our country. If the U.S. progresses to a more severe economical and political situation, these newcomers will be standing by our side in the fight(regardless of who is elected). People have been asleep for a long time, so it will take much effort to undo the damage that has happened. Unlike our forefathers who had no voice in their battle for freedom, we still own this country and no matter what they try to make us believe, we still can take back control. Don't forget that one of the main things most people like about Ron Paul, is that he is not a "top-down" guy and tends to let the people stay in control. Most grassroots campaigns have imploded by this time and would have never reached this level of support. He has been a great leader by keeping us on track with the message and setting a good example. It is so easy to forget the way our system of Government is supposed to work and he constantly reminds us of that. He knows that we are ultimately in charge and that we have the power to make it happen. Not him! If you are wanting a campaign that is bloated and micromanages everything with high power political professionals, this is not it. We have a network of dedicated true patriots that is larger than any amassed in the past. This does not hinge on Ron Paul anymore. We must continue even if he drops out tomorrow.
Eyes on the prize...DELEGATES!
http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/primaries/re...
Take a look at these from the "delegate" side (which is what we need, not simply voters). Huckabee with his win got 17 delegates, McCain now has a "whopping" 9 as the winner last night. Ron still has 2 from Iowa last week!
Now we're looking at Michigan, "NEVADA" (hello!), South Carolina and Florida that even a "decent" placing could get Ron the spread to make up for these "pre-season" primaries.
This is like saying that a football team who lost their first one or two games has no shot to make it into the playoffs! WAY TOO EARLY for that kind of thinking/talk!
We've known all along that we face a fight at the GOP National Convention, as there is NO clear "front-runner." So let's just strap on our helmets and get ready for the REAL game ahead!!!
Sorry for the football analogies if you're not a sports fan...lol :-)
This vote fraud tack is going nowhere
Folks, this worrying about vote fraud is a sure way to lose the election. EVEN IF there is vote fraud in some places, it's the system we have to work with! It just means we must have a larger margin of victory. Going after vote fraud at this point will be the best way possible to make us look like sore losers and marginalize us, even better than the disrespectful actions of Fox.
(This is not to say we shouldn't have poll watchers there when they tally the votes. That is always necessary.)
Another thing sidelining us is the truther stuff. Sure, use it to motivate yourself if you want, but don't try to sell it in the campaign. We are trying to get Ron Paul elected; that should be our only focus.
The problem is, Ron Paul has poor appeal to older folks and women. Older folks especially get to the polls. Guess what, large crowds of people screaming "Ron Paul" over and over, lead by a jerk with a bullhorn, are not going to impress older folks and women. Imagine you are driving your grandma to the polls; what do you want her to see? Lots of signs, smiling people holding signs up is fine. Screaming is not. Disrespectful tactics are not. Truther rants are not. Hell, even pushing the Constitution will not work with this demographic; most people hardly give a rip about the Constitution, and we already have with us all the ones who do.
While R's generally are not deeply committed to their very flawed candidates, they are all very sure they don't want Hillary in office. We need to push the point over and over again that the voters who in 2006 rejected the neocon program of endless war, big government crony conservatism and trashed civil liberties are not going to turn around in 2008 and embrace it. If it's Hillary vs anyone-but-Ron, traditional conservatives and libertarians will stay home for the election and Hillary will be our next President.
It only costs a stamp for NH voters to mail affidavits to HQ!
You said: "It just means we must have a larger margin of victory."
But if the machines are flipping votes, that won't work. That's like losing money on each sale and trying to make up for it by doing large volume.
A suspicious electorate is simply the price to be paid when we adopt the "Trust Me" elections model.
Do you worry about getting laughed at when you buy flood or earthquake insurance? What's wrong with collecting affidavits?
If it were a football game, I'd agree that we should just play along.
Too much is riding on this to just bend over and take it.
Will you *ever* have enough evidence...
...to overturn the election? Or even to move Ron Paul from 5th place to 4th place?
Remember, to have this work you have to appeal to the same system that is allowing the fraud. What do you think your chances are?
I say they are close to zero. The whole point of electronic machines is that there is NO way to prove that votes were added or deleted. And remember, by the time you get done chasing this wild goose Super Tuesday will be long gone.
There is a time and place to make this case, and that is after the election is over. Right now it is only a distraction, and the sour grapes may harm the campaign. We have to do the best with the system we have today.
Did we have poll watchers in every place the ballots were counted? Did we have Ron Paul supporters in every voting precinct so they could catch any vote fraud and stop it on the spot? These are useful things to do and have no repercussions.
It's already working... and relatively painless.
see
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/23647#comments
You said, "The whole point of electronic machines is that there is NO way to prove that votes were added or deleted."
But there is a way: RP voters from NH sign affidavits and mail to HQ. Hire a 3rd grader to see if the totals equal those published. Done.
It shouldn't take until Super Tuesday for NH voters to lick a stamp.
What distraction?
NH voters will spend much more time combing their hair between now and Super Tuesday than it takes to print out the affidavit
http://www.libertybroadcastnetwork.org/affidavit_program/new...
and send in.
100% RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU ARE RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's another
I saw a TV clip of a big guy (Ron Paul supporter) at the front door of an older woman. He was holding up his own copy of the Constitution and reading her out parts of it and explaining how it was being ignored. The woman patiently stood there and listened to his rant. You could just imagine her thinking, "I wish this jerk would get off my porch and go away".
Pathetic.
Folks, we just can't hector people into supporting the Constitution or voting for Ron Paul. We really, really need to put ourselves in others' shoes to see how we come off to them. Let's use a light touch, please.
I really don't think door-to-door is very effective, for anything other than a candidate in a local race doing it themselves. People don't want to waste their time with candidate supporters. They MIGHT want to talk to the candidate himself, but even that is questionable. Obviously this is impractical in a presidential race.
The McCain camp is that way >>>
You said 'I really don't think door-to-door is very effective'
Speaking from personal experience I would say you are wrong. There is certainly an art to canvassing.
You need a rap thats to the point, I AM, WE ARE, WE DO, WE WANT get signatures and support.
You have to be passionate and confident about what your supporting, unfortunately I'm afraid your not.
Vote fraud and/or non-transparency is always a problem, and is proven and documented in many cases.
You can't work with a broken system, and if you don't fix it, don't expect it to fix itself. It sounds like you belong in the McCain camp where you don't have to work for your votes and can go with the status quo.
BOYCOTT CORPORATE MEDIA
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www.unitedboycott.org
Right on the money!!
Thats the best piece i ever read on the subject, the fanatic frenzy and 9/11 nuts are so rampant in the chatrooms. This is not the way to help RP.
"No visas for people from terrorist nations"
-- Ron Paul, presidential TV add on immigration.
I found another detailed
I found another detailed city count on NPR then went back to the Boston site to compare numbers, it had been fixed...they both matched. So, as someone has already pointed out, unless there is conclusive proof we have nothing to go with here. If our votes are going to be on these machines that nearly everyone doesn't want and counted in secret I believe we have a huge grassroots job to do and it will take years. This started, as far as I can tell, back in 2000 with the hanging chad deal, then moved into the machines in 2004. The mandate requires all cities, who haven't banded them, to have them in the General Election...so there ya go..Clinton in the White House again. Sorry to be such a drag but although people are waking up, it's late in the game.
I would take the opposite approach.
.
This is only half tongue-in-cheek.....
I've changed my mind about putting a bunch of money into über-pro advertising. Why continue to dribble away an enormous war chest and give it to the very entities that detest you, namely the Establishment media?
I think Charles Rangel had an excellent idea a few months ago and Dr Paul could pick up the ball and run with it.
I would recommend that Congressman Paul, along with Congressman Kucinich if he's interested introduce legislation that makes military service mandatory, i.e. bring back conscription (the draft). No community programs, no tree planting projects in Nebraska, no peace corps or college/university deferments, bona fide military service would be required of all citizens between the ages of eighteen and thirty five.
That would get him all kinds of free air time with the Establishment media. During on-air interviews he could explain "Well, it seems the majority of the country is in favor of military intervention around the globe. The people are voting for Hillary and McCain for example and those two have promised to defend Israel no matter what kind of trouble Israel gets itself into. If we're going to take that position then we need to increase the size of our military dramatically, far beyond what we're accomplishing with an all volunteer force. We cannot hope to fight the Iranians in a ground war with the small army we have now, and most of the candidates continue to threaten Iran so we need to add another million soldiers to our infantry and infantry support structure."
Dr Paul wouldn't have to spend ten cents on promotional advertising after that. He's be all over the airwaves. We would know that the legislation is presented with sarcasm and we'd vote for him anyway, and many Americans of the mentally dull persuasion would vote for him thinking it was a serious bill of law.
.
Jeder war ein großer Krieger
Hielten sich für Captain Kirk
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I was glad to come
I'll be sad to go
So while I'm here
I'll have me a real good time
Jeder war ein großer Krieger
Hielten sich für Captain Kirk
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I was glad to come
I'll be sad to go
So while I'm here
I'll have me a real good time
Hu?
hu? Rangel puts up this bill for the draft every single year for the last few years to make this very same statement, and he gets almost NO media attention for it (got a little bit the first time, but not much).
This is the Greatest Idea I ever.
Sometimes you tried to get notice by doing the same thing over and over with no results. Most of the time you will get more attention by doing exactly the opposite of what is expected of you.
When Americans hear that they are going to get conscripted and in top of that pay for more military involvement they will wake up. We live in the times were Americans think that the government actions dont affect us because we dont see the consequences down the road. However, when they hear that they will be put on obligatory military service and tax servitude they will listen.
I can think of all the other GOP members explaining how they are gonna be against it. When they start thinking that the government is gonna throw them in the front lines on wheel chairs or pregnant if need be, they will react. A good name for the bill should also be deviced.
On top of that they should also introduce a bill that will put income taxes to 95% to fund the war and save the Government from Bankruptcy.
The Interventionist Patriotic American Financial Responsability Act of 2008.
and
The Patriotic American Duty Conscription Act of 2008
I hear it, too
Man.. I could "hear" Dr. Paul in my head...You weren't one of the writers for the Ron Paul newsletter, were you?
JK . ..
I like the Post comment button.
The "Submit" button just pisses me off.
Isn't the word "Muslim" translated in English mean "Submit"?
The Votes Were Counted
Being a NH native myself, I can say that the votes were almost certainly not tampered with. Much of the state is on paper ballots, and the supervisors at the polls are generally very honest.
I hope folks don't go overboard insisting that there was widespread election fraud, because that would just be denial. There was heavy turnout, and a relatively tight race for #1.
The heavy turnout dilluted our vote to some extent, and the tight race probably drew away a number of independent votes for McCain. There were a lot of people in the anybody but Romney camp.
I really thought we'd finish somewhere between 10-15%, maybe even take third. I am a little disappointed, but we've come a long way in a short time. We got 10% in Iowa and 8*% in NH, for a republican candidate who wants to end the war, widthdraw troops from 130 countries around the world, bring back the gold standard, end the IRS, end the war on Drugs, and abolish the Dept. of Education.
Stay in the fight. Every state where we can make a showing sends a message to the GOP at the federal and state levels. People want smaller, constitutional government, and an end to miltary adventurism.
We beat Guiliani in Iowa, nearly tied him in NH, we beat Thompson in NH too.
I know that winning is an even more uphill struggle, but there is value in the struggle itself. You might not always win, but you have to stand up for this country, for our future, for our rights. Win or lose, I will be glad to say that I and so many of you were a part of this, and that we never gave up.
Let this galvinize your resolve, not errode it. We still have a lot of people to wake up, a lot of states to contest, and this race won't be over until after the convention. We have delagates already. I seriously doubt Ron will call it quits and let those delegates vote for someone else.
Finally, if you think this fight is tough, remember how much more the founders and their generation had to give, and how hopeless it must have looked at times.
"Live Free or Die, death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark
We can bellyache all we want to,
and nobody's going to listen. With fraud, you either have ironclad proof, or you catch it in the act.........neither of which we have. The poor showing of our support in New Hampshire will be a confirmation signal for the media to ignore Ron Paul..........sorry about it........but the campaign office, sitting on $20 million should have realized that an exceptional candidate like Ron Paul, who is having to fight all the opponents and press, would obviously need some success early on to captivate attention and credibility. And we didn't do it. The grassroots delivered them $20 million without even asking for it, and they turned that into a very poor result. One of three things. One, they didn't use the funds. Two, they used the funds ineffectively. or Three, they just didn't like Ron Paul's messege. Forget voter fraud.........
alan laney
LibertyBroadcasting
Checkout http://www.libertybroadcastnetwork.org/votecount.htm
look towards the bottom.
Using only the hand counted votes we have almost 12% of that sample.
With hand counted and computer counted, we have only 9%.
With only computer counted (I manually subtracted)
We have 8%
Does anyone have a list of what counties are hand counted so I can use the full public stats to compare hand counted counties (but then again errors like the one in sutton exist and thats a hand counted county, but that error is so large its probably a mistake, not a purposeful lets shoot for a solid 8%)