Hypothetically: Ron Paul doesn't get nominated, what about Johnson
Submitted by brianb on Mon, 05/07/2012 - 06:02I know no matter what the odds most of us here will support Dr. Paul.
But I also think we need to plan for all possible eventualities.
One alternative could be to nominate Paul to the American's Elect spot. Another would be to focus on Johnson.
It sounds like 15% is the magic number to be included in the TV debates. I for one would welcome Johnson in the debates if I can't have Paul to have a voice against endless war and debasement of our civil liberties.
He is apparently polling at 6-9% now according to NPR. I am sure we could push him to 15%.
It is also a question about our future. This is Paul's last run for sure if he doesn't get it then we need to find someone to rally behind going forward. That said I don't know about Johnson's integrity, I'm sure it pales compared to Paul. Still I'm rather tired of the two sides of the same coin.
So....
you're a cult member, then. A follower. They have 12-step programs for that.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"
So your a clown
with no circus, they have floride pills for that. Insulting pup.
sovereign
Hypothetically-You could take this to The Daily Johnson board
Waste of time here. This is a forum for Ron Paul for President. We are now in a serious battle for Delegates in the RNC. That is the news. That is the focus. That is what is important.
Are You Libertarian?
Great new video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAaRbMi2s1Q
Ron Paul, Gary Johnson, and the future of freedom (and the USA).
The important point is not whether we vote for Ron Paul or some substitute if our hero doesn't win the GOP nomination. The important thing to do is ask what we can do to advance awareness of our constitutional and libertarian alternative to the discredited, failing, and bankrupt status quo that both O'bomber AND Romney so convincingly embody and champion.
Gary Johnson is no Ron Paul--WHO IS?--but he is running against RP only in the most indirect and incidental way. He is clearly and indisputably the lesser of two evils when compared with either Mr. Willard or the mad O'bomber. His understanding of liberty is still growing (RP supporters will play a big part of thisin the next four years) whereas can any reader on the DP even IMAGINE the big B-O or Willard the Rat (cf. that movie "Willard" from the early '70s) having a single libertarian idea between them during their entire lives?
GJ has moved "freedomward" since he began seeking the LP nomination. He has a long way to go yet to meet the standards of your RP supporter, much less real libertarians like e.g. Murray Rothbard, Jacob Hornburger, Walter Block, Hans-Hermann Hoppe, or Lew Rockwell; at least he ADMIRES the ideal, even if he still sees his administration as being the "efficiency expert for the State" rather than one of helping us Americans recover our God Given rights.
As another Ron Paul, GJ will be disappointing. As an alternative to the other major Party--and its twin horrors--he certainly will give and the American people far more breathing room at a time when we sorely need it!
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is not to be attacked successfully, it is to be defended badly". F. Bastiat
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, finally they attack you, and then you win"! Mohandas Gandhi
He's not another Ron Paul.
He's not another Ron Paul. He's a different person. In some ways not as good (maybe), in other ways better.
He is more libertarian than most of the peole you list though. Rothbard, for instance is an anarchist, not a libertarian. A libertarian believes in government for the protection of lives, freedom, property. Ron Paul is more of a constitutional conservative than a libertarian.
I think Thomas Jefferson is more of a "real libertarian" than the modern intellectual anarchists many of whom are profoundly disconnected from reality. How do you run for office as a person who believes in zer government? It's like saying "I have to have sex with this prostitute so I can show her the evils of sex" or somethign like that.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"
Distraction!
This is wasting precious time for gaining delegates!
We are going to win the presidency!
This time!
This year!
Focus folks!
Are you willing to bet large
Are you willing to bet large sums of money?
How about $10,000 that Romney wins? The prospect of losing $10,000 to me should motivate you, too.
I mean, c'mon, Paul knows he can't win already, he's looking for influence and disruption and is holding out the fantasy of winning to manipulate you.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"
my OPINION!!!!!
Dr Paul says we are in the midst of a bond bubble. My thoughts are IF Ramney gets the nomination, then get behind and push him into as POTUS. He only plans on cutting some 360 billion his first year. That amounts to around 650 billion in bonds being bought. What happens when the bond bubble bursts? Ramney takes the blame the grand old party is just that OLD. And we all move over to the Libertarian party and start new from there.
I have heard Obama has set us up with all the QE's for high inflation once the jobs come back. I am not an expert on this just going by what I hear from Ron Paul and from zerohedge. If anybody has any knowledge lets hear it
Here, I've got your knowledge for ya-
Don't let the door hit ya in the a$$ on the way out—
Go Ahead!
Vote for Johnson already. I'm voting for Ron Paul or I'm not voting!
It's a matter of principle, not strategy.
bull's eye
Principle is the Strategy
Paul then Johnson
I voted for Paul during primary. I will vote for him again if he's the GOP candidate, but if he's not the GOP candidate, then I'll vote for Johnson. Easy.
Lee Wrights
Lee Wrights
I saw the debate on CSPAN.
I saw the debate on CSPAN. Lee Wrights is better than Gary Johnson. GJ just has more fire power being a two-time governor. But I agree Lee Wrights was a better alternative. I thought Jesse Ventura was considering the LP as well. What happened to him?
Jesse?
He went entirely insane.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"
Hypothetically
Hypothetically, we shouldn't even be discussing it.
Why?
If Ron doesn't get the nomination, a number of other things would happen before any of us could make a decision.
Just a few examples:
- Rand/Ron VP slot
- Ron cabinet position
- Ron 3rd party / America Elects run
- Ron 3rd party endorsements
No, none of these are likely to happen (except the very last). But we can't lose sight of our GOAL.
And our GOAL isn't just getting Dr. Paul the nomination and then winning the election. Our GOAL is to transform the Republican party. We do this by staying committed to the message.
And honestly, outside of Ron Paul, I don't think this notion of group think helps the movement at all, with regards to voting for a presidential candidate.
Why?
Because Ron Paul is so unique that you'll never have consensus.
A lot of people complained about how long it took Dr. Paul to make a single endorsement, but that was more out of spite against Bob Barr anyway. Dr. Paul doesn't want to tell us who to vote for. And I guarantee you that, if on the heels of the Rally for the Republic he were to have endorsed Chuck Baldwin, you'd never get even 50% of people in the movement to vote for him because of ideological differences (as close as he may be to a Ron Paul).
So really, at this point, this is all irrelevant.
these are the types of comments i come across on Libertarian
hanging places on youtube on a DAILY basis if i just try to skim through the comment section for more than 10 seconds, when i am just CASUALLY reading and not looking for anything particular. these comments are SO frequent that i simply stopped visiting reason magazine site and reason tv's comment section. yet EVERY TIME i let my guard slightly down, these always just so 'accidentally' pop into my view. if you take random sampling of me reading comment sections at a random time and go through 20 comments each time and always catching at least 2~3, repeat this over 100 times, statistically it is pretty accurate about the general view lp harbors toward paul, oh, right, because he's not "Libertarian enough" on immigration and abortion
samples:
"Hey idiots. Paul is not on ballot. Support Gary Johnson. Hes awesome,and will be on ballot."
"Ron paul is garbage. Told you idiots he wouldnt win,and your wasteing your votes. Learn to vote for somone not so 1 sided. Gary Johnson is by far a much better canidate than paul. Gary has more appeal to all parties and would win more votes if paul supporters supported him. Paul supporters held the country back this round by supporting the decoy."
YOU are garbage, lp.. you want to say these are isolated incident? try going through any video on reason tv that talks about ron paul and see how many negative comments are coming from lp. reason mag's own statistics also supports this, as much as 50% didn't support paul EVEN BEFORE johnson became lp's nominee.. fu ck you guys, i wish the useless cancer known as lp never came into existence. they brought us some useful clips from paul's 88 run and that's pretty much it. everyone else the so called libertarian movement has brought about has been done on individual basis by couple nobel prize winners, teachers like rothbard and friedman whom some don't like, and some great communicators like john stossel.. these are individual work and ain't got anything to do with lp, lp you don't even dare take credit for that
labels on paul supporters don't quite stick, labels on lp, like these i am making, do. know why? cus we grow, doubling every time you turn your head. they don't.
Well, I haven't seen the
Well, I haven't seen the negative comments, though I imagine there are a lot of purist libertarians who don't believe Ron is a real libertarian with many of the religious conservative neo-con stances he has.
Gary Johnson is more of a true libertarian candidate. I would vote for Paul, but I actually believe Johnson is the better and more experienced candidate.
What Paul has is staying power and the ability to grow the movement and he should by all means continue to do that. But he is a spokesperson, not the Messiah.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"
I mighta considered voting for R. Lee Wrights....
if Ron didn't secure the nomination, (but don't worry, he will). Johnson's an alright guy and I certainly have no beef with him, but he's just not that great of a speaker, he just seems so overly nervous at times. Wrights, on the other hand, is one hell of a spokesman. All in all, I wish the LP luck, and I DO stand with them in the fight against tyranny, but Ron's my guy and you know what they say about Paul supporters... "once you go Paul, you never go back".
"sometimes I hug the coffee table when no one is looking."
I want Ron Paul to be POTUS
If he drops out and essentially says "don't write my name in", though, then I would absolutely vote for Gary Johnson.
Gary Johnson on Running as the Libertarian Nominee
Gary Johnson was interviewed by Neil Cavuto yesterday on Fox Business. You can watch the video here:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/cavuto/index.html
who
who
there is only Ron
come on dude
"He's this eccentric Ghandi-Like figure that you cant touch with the normal bribes that people respond to."
the man Doug Wead on DR. RON PAUL
Not sure where I should post this
I am trying to create awareness to a Facebook pg that is gaining momentum. The page calls for the resignation of GOP chair Reince Priebus. I know this is probably the wrong forum for this post but I am new here. If someone would care to point me in the right direction so this might get a little traction on this site. Thanks.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/357684657621646/
Yep.
That's my voting game plan. The key word here is "hypothetical."
We are in the middle of a WAR
We are in the middle of a WAR that we are WINNING. why do these lame posts need to be posted here. Lets talk about this after August.
Oh how I wonder, oh how I worry
And I would dearly like to know
How all this squander of earthly plunder
will leave us anything to show
Okay...
...so no posts should be here except those that are about Paul's campaign? Well then shall we ban posts on natural medicine, vaccines, chem-trails, Agenda 21, or any of the other miscellaneous topics that are discussed here on a regular basis?
I really do not understand your attitude. How does talking about Johnson detract one iota from our work for Paul?
Not a proper analogy NON
natural medicine, etc. is not the same as a COMPETING candidate. Yes, GJ is currently a competitor to RP.
Also, the MSM, i.e. our main opponents propaganda arm do not write article after article and piece after piece attempting to derail RPs chances by discussing vaccines, etc. but they very often do articles and reports about "third party" and ALWAYS use the word "L(l)ibertarian when referring to RP with the specific, and time proven effective, goal of damaging RP in the minds of the general electorate.
With the above facts having been explained here repeatedly over the years one really has to begin seriously questioning the primary allegiance of those that repeatedly post on the topics of third party/GJ/libertarianism.
"You are a den of vipers and thieves."
I mean to rout you out!
-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us
-The door is wide open, anything can slither in
Let's put on our thinking caps...
"natural medicine, etc. is not the same as a COMPETING candidate. Yes, GJ is currently a competitor to RP."
In what way in GJ competing with RP?
"Also, the MSM, i.e. our main opponents propaganda arm do not write article after article and piece after piece attempting to derail RPs chances by discussing vaccines, etc. but they very often do articles and reports about "third party" and ALWAYS use the word "L(l)ibertarian when referring to RP with the specific, and time proven effective, goal of damaging RP in the minds of the general electorate."
And that has to do with GJ how?
And that is a reason not to vote for GJ how?
"With the above facts having been explained here repeatedly over the years one really has to begin seriously questioning the primary allegiance of those that repeatedly post on the topics of third party/GJ/libertarianism."
Ah, and so the motive-questioning begins. The last resort of an argument-less man. Feel free to browse through the history of my posts, I have repeatedly and vociferously opposed calls to abandon the GOP for a third party bid. If you don't understand the difference between RP going third party, and us choosing to vote third party if RP loses the GOP nomination, then there's no sense in continuing this conversation. I'll just let you attack people like myself making common sense points until the day you have an about-face when RP endorses GJ after Tampa...
I was born w/ thinking cap permanently attached:
"In what way in GJ competing with RP?"
In the market for soap, some of the competing options are: DIAL, DOVE and IRISH SPRING. In the current market for votes to win POTUS in NOV 2012, some of the competing options for voters are: RON PAUL, Obama, Romney and a guy named GJ(or am I incorrect that a party known as LP has nominated him?)
"And that has to do with GJ how?"
It is self evident-MSM(Not our friend[even rhymes to make that important fact easy to remember]) uses many techniques to harm our/RPs chances, among them constant references to "third party" and Libertarian/Libertarianism/libertarianism. Therefore, postings of the same on same topics the MSM, not our friend uses to deliberately attack us(w/ full knowledge among they and we of harmful effectiveness) is bring the MSM, not our friend into our own house.
In normal households, sworn, lifelong enemies are not permitted entrance and the occupants of the household are not allowed unlimited admonishment regarding foolish or otherwise parroting of enemy propaganda.
"Ah, and so the motive-questioning begins. The last resort of an argument-less man. Feel free to browse through the history of my posts, I have repeatedly and vociferously opposed calls to abandon the GOP for a third party bid. If you don't understand the difference between RP going third party, and us choosing to vote third party if RP loses the GOP nomination, then there's no sense in continuing this conversation. I'll just let you attack people like myself making common sense points until the day you have an about-face when RP endorses GJ after Tampa..."
Did I specify YOU??
I speak/write with precision and do my research when I lack the knowledge to speak/write w/ precision on a matter I desire to address. Do NOT extrapolate beyond what I write nor interpolate w/i what is not there.
Don't get pissy w/ me sport.
"You are a den of vipers and thieves."
I mean to rout you out!
-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us
-The door is wide open, anything can slither in