-82 votes

Hypothetically: Ron Paul doesn't get nominated, what about Johnson

I know no matter what the odds most of us here will support Dr. Paul.

But I also think we need to plan for all possible eventualities.

One alternative could be to nominate Paul to the American's Elect spot. Another would be to focus on Johnson.

It sounds like 15% is the magic number to be included in the TV debates. I for one would welcome Johnson in the debates if I can't have Paul to have a voice against endless war and debasement of our civil liberties.

He is apparently polling at 6-9% now according to NPR. I am sure we could push him to 15%.

It is also a question about our future. This is Paul's last run for sure if he doesn't get it then we need to find someone to rally behind going forward. That said I don't know about Johnson's integrity, I'm sure it pales compared to Paul. Still I'm rather tired of the two sides of the same coin.

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If you're talking Gary, the answer is no.

If you're talking LP the answer is screw them. If you're hoping people don't read back a few years and see how they totally screwed Paul when they should have stood up for the founder of that party, then I understand your efforts. Underhanded in that case if even unwittingly. LP bears no real resemblance to the party Dr. Paul started and to suggest Revolution people just flip over to there is asking too much.

Now it's about the Constitution and the fight to defend it.

Ron Paul didn't start the LP

Where do you get the notion that Ron Paul started the Libertarian Party?

He didn't. He's never made any such claim.

Just as he's never made the claim to have originated the ideas his current campaign represents.

And for good reason. He's honest, and he didn't originate the ideas.

You confuse your own lack of knowledge with actual history.

It's not history because you claim it to be just as my statements in this thread are not endorsements (neither implicit nor explicit) of any party or candidacy.

I didn't mention the LP and I'm in no way defending it.

I consider LPers who use Daily Paul to spread their stuff to be trolls.

I am a Libertarian, by registration...it means checking a box.

It is not important or significant in any way.

Just as it's not important or significant that one either is a Democratic voter or a Republican voter.

All mean merely checking a box.

There's NO effort there, there's no statement there, there's NOTHING there.

Still don't have to register Republican to be able to vote for Paul until May 21st, which I'll do in time to be able to cast my ballot for Ron Paul.

Ron Paul first was elected to congress in 1976. In that year the LP was running its 2nd presidential candidate.

Ron Paul came to the LP; he didn't found it. He came there because of shared ideology, no more and no less. He came over and became the 1988 presidential nominee. The LP officially started nearly 2 decades before that 1988 run.

Liberty didn't begin with Ron Paul. Ron Paul discovered a movement which far pre-dated him, and it wasn't a movement which began with the LP or with any party.

Stop concentrating on party.

That's all I've said.

When one does that one embraces the State.

Parties are creatures of the State.

Or, is it ok that the GOP once again will rape taxpayers for the cost of the convention they'll be holding in Tampa?

Over 100 million taxpayer dollars will be spent to hold their little rigged shindig in Florida, their planned annointing of Romney and a national slate of candidates who, on the whole, are far to the right of Mussolini.

There is absolutely nothing in your post to verify your quite vague statement about my needing to "read back a few years" and learn how Ron Paul somehow was "screwed" by the LP.

There's no there there; there is no truth in your assumption that somehow the LP even could "screw" someone let alone that it did(and that's all it is, an assumption, based on what? Based on you not knowing what you are talking about).

You need to read some things. It is YOU who has alot to learn.

No one with the first inkling of Ron Paul's history would claim he started the LP or that he started the libertarian movement.

He learned from those who came before him...he learned from a long, long line of people. He wasn't teacher, he was student...as are the rest of us.

When you BEGIN to get your knowledge from experience and actually reading anything, then come back and make claims.

And I mean read ANYTHING---begin with some kindergarten books if need be. It's obvious you get your knowledge of the TV and in fora like this one, where there are all too many ignorant people giving encouragement to one another...public schooled morons whose idea of politics is to call names and chastise those who aren't as plainly stupid as themselves.

And at LEAST show the respect of acknowledging what I said instead of spouting gibberish.

Ron Paul never would claim his beliefs began with him and he's always been quite clear about that.

WHEN you have the first clue that it's not about party then you will have learned something important.

Until then, you are the problem and don't represent any solution.

sharkhearted's picture

Zzzzz....

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

the paul movement is not LP

neither will the revolution take place in the LP. a movement that starts out to change the country, versus a party that will at every opportunity prefer its brand recognition over mere influences on policies, constantly challenging each other on "who is a better Libertarian". i think the starting points between the two are already quite different, and people have it wrong from the get-go. the paul movement is not LP. one aims to get elected to change the country, the other marches on the change slogan in order to garner recognition. differences may be subtle, but when are they ever not, when it comes to distinguishing people who merely talk it, and those that really have what it takes to 'make it'.

the constant obsession with LP about its own brand-purity, constantly asking the question "what does it mean to be a Libertarian", and constant bickering back and forth, grandstanding on marginal issues, are all tell-tale signs of this small group more worried about its brand recognition rather than simply having one or two most central issues gain national recognition. from their excessive focus on gender equality and marriage equality rather than focusing on the fed and foreign policy before things actually blow-up, as paul has done so decades before it all happened, says it all about the glass-half-full nature of LP. paul has also repeatedly said that if other people adopted his platform, he doesn't really care whether he becomes the guy. fundamentally different.. LP never had the mental bearing to shoulder the weight from the get-go. paul movement puts everything on the line and massively puts its own people's time and treasury at stake. on the contrary, where are LP's grassroots? this is not what LP's mind-set is capable of since its inception.

agreed

And let's not forget the same applies to those who suggest the "revolution" occurs within the GOP.

Partisan hacks are partisan hacks, no matter which club they call their own.

I think he's a good option

Right now, I'm 100% behind Ron Paul. Not looking at Gary Johnson or anyone else right now. If Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination and decides against running independent, I don't know who I will vote for. It might be Gary Johnson. It might be someone else. We'll see.

My primary problem with swearing to only vote for Ron Paul is that it doesn't support the entire movement. I want to support anyone who advocates the Constitution and common sense (as uncommon as that may be). That will send the message that I want limited government and sensible economic policies and peaceful foreign policies. The one on the ballot in November who best represents those values gets my vote.

But we all know that, so long as we fight hard for it, that "someone" will be Ron Paul ^_^

"Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." -- Thomas Paine

What do you like about

What do you like about Johnson besides him running on a "libertarian" platform? I agree with Dr. Paul, but I find Johnson very difficult to take seriously. I do not want a in-name-only candidate for any party. Is there anything unique or exciting about Governor Johnson? Does he have any good ideas?

Do what I did. YouTube one

Do what I did. YouTube one of the Libertarian debates. Johnson really impressed me, as well as Harris, and Lee Wrights is a character. Just watch one, and see what you think. Johnson isn't quite as knowledgeable, humble, or consistent as Paul, but he has other strengths. They ask questions about Ron Paul in a couple of the debates which was interesting as well.

"Where liberty is, there is my country." -Benjamin Franklin

The problem is Gary Johnson

The problem is Gary Johnson is pretty weak.

He's weak on foreign policy- http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/04/has-libertarian....

He's weak on drug laws, economics, etc- http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/08/gary-johnson-do...

more foreign policy -http://www.humblelibertarian.com/2011/04/gary-johnson-on-foreign-policy-national.html

I was a little lazy on getting sources but do some googling you'll find more.

Also, he is pro abortion, and thats a big turn off, however even if he was pro life it would be very difficult for me to support him.

Mises.org
Know your stuff, learn real history and economics @LibertyClassroom.com

I highly reccomend watching

I highly reccomend watching one of the Libertarian debates. The main three candidates(Jonson, Harris, and Wrights) were practically parroting Ron Paul on every position from the War, to the Fed, as well as the welfare state, eliminating Federal bureaucracies, and restoring civil liberties.

I am campaigning for Dr. Paul as long as he is running the race, but IF he doesn't get nominated, we have a near identical platform with Johnson.

"Where liberty is, there is my country." -Benjamin Franklin

How about a litmus test?

From the Gary Johnson web site:

"THE FEDERAL RESERVE SHOULD BE TRANSPARENT and its actions held to the same level of scrutiny as any other federal department."

I don't think that Gary Johnson passes the litmus test based upon that quote from that source. I could be wrong of course.

The Federal Reserve Corporation of Legalized Counterfeiting is run by liars and thieves who have somehow made their crimes an exclusive legal power.

Criminals don't obey laws.

Is that news to anyone?

Joe

Paul or no one

Hypothetically: Ron Paul doesn't get nominated, what about Ron Paul anyway?

If Ron Paul is a NO

than Gary Johnson is our guy and we can easily raise his poll numbers and remember we must also control the vote counting stations to get ourselves a victory they will rig it like the GOP did against Paul.

Gary

I don't think I could support him. He seems to look out for number 1 too much for me.

donvino

Woah.... my fellow patriots... woah...

My man the OP has been a DP member for 4 years. So let's give him the benefit of the doubt and not assume he's a REALLY deeply embedded GOP troll, shall we?

So... I like Gary a lot. Seems like a great guy. Disagree a bit on some things but overall he'd be 1,000,000 times better then Obamney. Having said that, I'm 100% devoted to Ron Paul. Unless he asks us to vote for someone else, like Gary, then I'm writing him in if he doesn't get the GOP nod.

I have high hopes for a total revolution in Tampa. Let's see how that goes before we worry about what to do if he doesn't make it. :)

Eat at Joe's Pizza

Monday night special - 2 slices, 2 toppings and a large drink $6

I don't mind voting for

I don't mind voting for Johnson, but only if Paul gives him his endorsement. Otherwise I'm writing in Paul

SCREW OFF LP

so nice of you to start fighting alongside paul... oh wait - your just here trying to steal his voters. im ashamed of the lp in this theyve been quite other than a few like stossel. The lp is just hoping to gain the millions given if they reach a certain percent of the vote. go steal someone elses voters!

Freedom.

Ron Paul in November

Pennsylvania has a writing box. I'm voting for Ron Paul in November no matter what!!!!!

Johnson

Who?

If we give a inch they will take a mile

Ron Paul carried the message of liberty all this way, to even breath the words Gary Johnson to me is the act of a traitor. A shill. A paid dupe trying to discourage freedom lovers that have fought along side of RP for years. So meybe some day but not to day. Suspect those who distract and derail Ron Paul from being the messenger of liberty that opens the doors to the potus.

sovereign

Well good luck. I am

Well good luck. I am realistic the odds aren't good for Ron. I'm feel there are two very important ways to make a difference to move politics to our positions though: (1) continue taking over the Republican party from within; this is being helped by the conventions. Becoming officials in the party gives us a power base for the future if liberty activists stick with it. (2) Assuming Ron doesn't get the nomination having someone point out the issues where there is no difference between the candidates. This is mostly: civil liberties and endless war. Now that message isn't likely to reach a wide audience without manipulating the mass media. The best way to do that is to give them a story that is easy to write and compelling to read. They aren't colluding they simply are, like most people, lazy.

look buddy there is no future for the GOP

If Ron Paul does not go to the top. I only speak for myself. But politiks and government discust me and I detest anyone who thinks they have authority over me.

After this election I will never again participate. Most of RP support will not appear in the GOP again mark my words.

If that is correct, you are only detracting by promoting the GOP of the future. Nah you do not get any support for this effort from me. In fact it angers me.

sovereign

You sir are what I fight against

So you think this is about winning your favorate who happens to be GJ please your so transparent. I do not support anyone, I support individual freedom. GJ will just distract as you are doing with this bogus bs.

sovereign

I Voted for Ron Paul in 1988

I am not a traitor and not a shill. I voted for Ron Paul in 1988 and donated the max in 2004 and in 2008. I voted for him in the Florida Primary and hosted a Meetup Group in my area. But I look ahead and I don't trust the Republican Party to have the wisdom or courage to nominate him. So if you are in a state where you can go to a Republican convention and vote for Ron Paul I encourage you to do it. But I have done all I can do for Ron Paul and now I must look ahead and put my effort where I can do some good. We all have different time schedules because of varying state procedures. Just wait until September and then please join us for the second charge for liberty with the Libertarian Party on the ballot to give the American people a choice other than Obamney.

Not my experience

I joined the LP in 76 under the influence of NORML ads in Playboy. It never got better than that. It won't.

Many neocons were Democrats.. my own Republican Central Committee is seated with people who admit, they were Democrats, and no one was home at the RCC, so they took it, never saw a tax they didn;'t like, and they love doing all this as the GOP, KNOWING thier hearts are in the Democratic Party.

There should have been 20 seated, but we had 2 that show up.

Since I started showing up, I'm ruining their party. Seems to me on DP, that's true for allot of folks like me, who just petitioned and seated on the Republican Central Committee. I sure wish there were more folks like me on the committee. I've got POWER. I never had that in the LP.

If you really lie Ron Paul, read Ron Paul and understand Ron Paul, he's challanging us to take the party back.. Your discription of the party is MSM regergitation. You don't know. You haven't been.

GO. GFet in this rEVOLution. Gary Johnson is a REPUBLICAN and he's NOT going to win.

Exactly!

Well said.

Now it's about the Constitution and the fight to defend it.

Thank you Dave P.

Thank you for your support.

I don't believe anyone who has supported Ron Paul, really supported him, in money, time, gas, leg work.. heart, mind... guts.. I don't believe such a person stops and says, well, he doesn't have a chance so I'm going third party... as if a third party has a chance?

I really think that once someone has come to see things Ron Paul/ Constitution (leave your morals to the foundation and growth of Church, not government).. you can't back Gary Johnson.

That's like switching from cream to non-fat milk and saying non-fat milk tastes better. Our mission is to remove and unseat the Neocons who are protected by Neoliberals and MSM for the UN. What a big job wee the people have. All the more reason to be grateful for the political leadership of Ron Paul.

Take over the GOP with us

Take over the GOP with us

Gary Johnson Polling at 8% in Montana

Gary Johnson was recently found to have been polling at 15% in his home-state in New Mexico. However, now the same polling company has conducted a survey which says he is polling at 8% in Montana too.

The poll asked: “If the candidates for President this fall were Democrat Barack Obama, Republican Mitt Romney, and Libertarian Gary Johnson, who would you vote for?”

Mitt Romney…………………………….. 43%
Barack Obama…………………………… 41%
Gary Johnson ………………………….. 8%
Undecided…………………………….. 7%

When the data is broken down further, Johnson appears to be capturing 4% of Democrats and 5% of Republicans. Among self-described independents, Johnson surges to 15%.

The former New Mexico governor is also polling at 13% among voters under the age of 30.

From Independent Political Report http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/05/gary-johns...