still think there's no vote fraud?
Submitted by johnpp2 on Tue, 01/08/2008 - 21:04
I posted earlier about possible vote fraud in IA and I got shouted out of here. If you people really believe that Ron Paul is getting 8% in NH, then you really are destined to lose. Fortunately, there are good people who will investigate this with or without your help.
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2810.shtml
www.blackboxvoting.org
»
Its naive, in this day in age, knowing what we know >>>>
to believe that fraud is a strange thing, or even an unlikely thing. There have been strange things in elections in 2000, 2004, 2008 and well before all of that. All the logical evidence suggests that there likely IS fraud, massive fraud. We know alot of truth about the evil those who TRULY oppose Ron are up to.
It is LOGICAL that they are committing fraud, have committed fraud in the past, and will continue to committ fraud as long as they can get away with it. As long as they can use their fake dollars to buy people into doing what they want - they WILL get away with it.
Lets at least, after exhaustive study, research, logical thought, let go of the notion that elections are real or fair. That is the best thing that can come from tonight. Regardless of what happens from here on out, its most important that the truth get out - especially about the evil that is being done in the country in which we live. I use the word evil, because that is exactly what it is - no loving, normal, good human being would stoop to such behavior as fraud, and the protection of fraud - so the word EVIL is well deserved.
Very wird
Check this out
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/23414
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." - Romans 12:18
Brilliant article that explains why we love Dr. Paul:
http://lewrockwell.com/orig12/farber-r1.1.1.html
of course we knew
People we all knew what we were up against, we knew that massive vote fraud was in the works. The important thing right now is that EVERYONE KNOWS IT, everyone who is paying attention and there are millions absolutely know these primary results are total b.s. the cat is out of the bag and it is going to get very hot soon. Ron wasn't the only one screwed tonight and it is going to get more and more difficult to pull this off starting right here in Michigan next week, this is just the beginning people. Also this website is being flooded with vicious plants who are trying to sabotage the campaign we need to stick together as Ron is being crucified in the media, again this is just the beginning folks.
Apparently there was fraud
No surprise there.
I found this at...
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
It refers to...
http://www.truthnews.us/?p=1587
There will be more of this. Who will demand a hand count?
I don't know what to think anymore.
My wife made a comment the other night that 'the shit happening in this country is so preposterous that we can hardly rule out anything including a 9/11 conspiracy'. (although Popular Mechanics ran a piece about this very thing and debunked the majority of the truthers claims. I tend to trust PM, but they did not address a key issue that is "who did it?" and "why did it happen?" they merely explained the "physics" of it.)
As far as the vote fraud goes, I tend to think that whoever is committing the fraud would commit the fraud to change who the front runner might be. Not third or fourth place. Having typed that, I do think that the frauds would like to stifle the message of Dr. Paul...so that brings me back to my headline...I don't know what to think anymore...
Side note
Strawmen are not considered "debunking 911 claims".
Case in point...
..PM insists(creates strawman) that the "conspiracists" hold the position that the only way the buildings could of collapsed is if the Steel had melted.
PM then argues the steel does not have to melt, all that needs to happen is it needs to be heated up to about 550c which would then cause the steel to weaken by half, thus collapse..
The fact of the matter is, The supposition that Steel had melted was first advanced by all the talking heads that hit the airwaves immediately after the events..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1540044.stm
Thursday, 13 September, 2001
"It was the fire that killed the buildings. There's nothing on earth that could survive those temperatures with that amount of fuel burning," said structural engineer Chris Wise.
"The columns would have melted, the floors would have melted and eventually they would have collapsed one on top of each other."
(note, it was the structural engineers position that 800c fires caused the steel to melt, thus causing the collapse)
1. WTC COLLAPSED AS INTENSE FIRE MELTED ITS STEEL
The Record (Bergen County, NJ); September 12, 2001; KATHLEEN LYNN, Staff Writer; 930 Words
... Bergen County, NJ) 09-12-2001 WTC COLLAPSED AS INTENSE FIRE MELTED ITS STEEL -- EXPERTS SAY TWIN TOWERS WITHSTOODTHE ... probably turned the interior steel in the floors to "taffy," in ... tallest buildings. Its outer steel frame supports the building ...
Moment world changed forever; Terror War on US: Terrorists were armed only with knives yet thousands were to die: The Atrocity - Terrorism USA.
The Evening Standard (London, England); September 12, 2001; Graham, Bob; 1,172 Words
... smaller of the two WTC towers - by six ... slammed into the WTC South Tower. The ... north tower of the WTC, the 25-yearold glass-and- steel complex that was ... touch them. The fire had melted their skin. Their ... aviation fuel melted steel supports. This ... fluid melted ...
TERRORIST ATTACKS AMERICA: VISION OF HELL.(News)
Daily Record (Glasgow, Scotland); September 13, 2001; 1,741 Words
... House, as well as the WTC and the Pentagon ... street and blood and steel beams blocking roads ... burning aircraft fuel melted the steel frames inside them ... atmosphere. Huge steel beams and aluminium ... beware of pockets of fire, still burning in ... and women of the fire ...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,34342,00.html
Friday, September 14, 2001
That appears to be what happened Tuesday, according to Richard Wilson, a risk expert and physics professor at Harvard University.
The two hijacked airliners crashed into floors 96 to 103 of One World Trade Center and floors 87 to 93 of Two World Trade Center. Instead of the steel girders of the towers lasting up to four hours before melting, the steel frames of One World Trade Center lasted only one hour and forty minutes, while the steel frames of Two World Trade Center lasted just 56 minutes before collapsing.
_____________
This theory was easily refuted by the "conspiracists" and then finally FEMA with their preliminary investigation.
It was from that point that the talking heads began to create a strawman arguement by taking the "conspiracists" refutations that "steel did not melt" out of their correct context (refuting the talking heads initial claims that steel had melted), and the applied the refutations to their new found knowledge that the steel did not have to melt to cause the structure to collapse..
Anyways..the fact of the matter is..the steel never and could never have reached weakening temps in such a weak fire..
Here is a link that deconstructs the PM article into oblivion..
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/
i would think ...
to commit vote fraud, you'd do it in a way and amount that it's still somehow "explainable" if it gets noticed.
so all you do is shifting the votes around and subtracting it from the ones where it matters least.... in this case McCain as he's quite a bit in the lead.
have a look here
http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php
so if you consider Romney and Clinton as the CFR's child, then they gained quite a bit and for Clinton even enough to beat Obama at the end.
(comparing hand counts vs. machine counts and assuming the fraud was done at the machines).
now if the fight for the 4th is just a side effect or was done purposely, who knows?
either way ... time to clear things up!
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiiaBqwqkXs
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson
Diabold vs Hand count
I just did a quick test...
I picked 20 counties at random where Paul got over 9% . Some larger total vote count and some smaller.
Out of those 20, 4 were Diabold and 16 were hand count?
Now I know that is not all that convincing but I think someone needs to put some real numbers and averages together to look at this a little closer.
Does anyone have a link to a list of all the counties WITH each candidate percentage. I was using the map with is a pain.
how bout that?
'acmegeek' at ronpaulforums did this list:
http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php
and that's just the CNN list
http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/count...
Check Greenville NH
Greenville NH...little precinct in the very south middle.
McCain: 60%
Huckabee: 22%
Guliani: 11%
Hunter: 3%
Paul: 0%
Romney: 0%
Ok, so Dr. Paul gets zero...unlikely but possible, small precinct...but Romney gets ZERO? Come on....
were ron paul votes credited to McCain?
if there was fraud - I think it had something to do with RP votes to McCain - and the talk about McCain being strong in NH , and McCain rising in the polls in NH, and McCain "doing well" (lol) in the debates was all part of this setup.
here are some comments I copied from other posters here on dailypaul:
Just for comparison...
New AOL poll for NH:
Romney 26%
Ron Paul 26%
McCain 24%
Huckabubble 11%
JulieAnnie 9%
Thompson 3%
Hunter 1%
Looks pretty accurate except they took RP's votes and put them with McCain on the election tally.
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" Exit polls found 64 percent of Tuesday's Republican voters still support the conflict (Iraq) -- and Romney, whose criticism of President Bush's management of the war has been muted, outpolled McCain in that category.
But among the 34 percent who said they disapproved of the war, McCain had a wide advantage over the GOP field -- even over Texas Rep. Ron Paul, the sole advocate of a U.S. withdrawal in the Republican field. "
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According to CNN exit polls (obviously somewhat flawed), Ron Paul got
19% of 18-24 year olds!
This is more than any candidate but John McCain.
(Now how did McCain do well in that demographic!?!?)
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The Media pumps up the (Dead) McCain campaign about a month before the NH vote- before that McCain was totally dead.
This helps two people - McCain ( historically gets independents) and Hillary - votes are taken from Obama and Paul.
Obama wins Iowa by no accident, it creates hysteria in NH which sends record numbers of people to the polls to vote against a black man. But Obama supporters think they have a chance to beat Hillary and most Anti-War supporters (even though Obama is not anti-war) move from Paul to Obama. This is the rope the dope - sucker the candidate and his supporters to think he actually has a chance (Wins Iowa) - Obama, McCain and Paul split the independent vote, Obama sucks off anti-war votes from Paul.
Superb move by Hillary and the establishment of both parties to set this up. Next McCain will lose in South Carolina and Michigan - he is useless now. Giuliani will climb to a unbelievable third in South Carolina and Michigan and ultimately will win Florida - looking like he has momentum and all this going into super tuesday.
Hillary is the comeback kid, and Giuliani is the momentum builder
with a 6th, 4th, 3rd 1st and then Super Tuesday
Ultimate goal - Hillary vs Giuliani (like we saw coming since 2005!)
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I, too, have observed the NH
I, too, have observed the NH results on politico.com and find it curious how the vote gaps between the candidates remain the same across the board...as if each candidate were issued a pre-determined percentage range. Perhaps, it would be good for all voters for Dr. Paul from suspicious precincts to contact dailypaul.com (or someplace honest) in order to do an "unofficial" vote tally to compare with what is being reported tonite. I'm sure that persons who voted for Dr. Paul would have no problem with responding to such a request, especially, in light of past voter fraud implications pertinent to the usage of electronic voting devices. At www.devvy.com, much information is available about hand counted paper ballots vs. electronic tabulations for achieving honest election results. Evidently, some electronic voting machines are not tamper proof.
Is it not the law in NH that all tallies must be hand counted if the citizenry were to demand that such an action take place?
Vote fraud inevitable
RSK I've been following the vote fraud issue since the mid 90's after reading Vote Scam by the Collier brothers. Devvy Kidd has written many articles on this subject. The website WWW.BLACKBOXVOTING.ORG unveils current election fraud nationwide. This insidious and despicable criminal activity has been and continues to be an impenetrable obstacle to our continued freedom. Our Republic cannot survive this intermittent assault on we the people. Our "elected" representatives are now, more likely than not, "appointed" by a handful of very, very wealthy and powerful individuals and families ( some of whom are citizens of Europe ). These Vampires, for the last 100+ years, have sucked the life force out of our wonderful country. We can no longer be sure, be 100% positive, that our votes are truly being counted. We recognize the problem and those behind it. The question is, what are we going to do about it? May God be with us as one nation, one people. As Josef Stalin once said, "those who cast the votes decide nothing, those who count the votes decide everything". The opposite of freedom is slavery; If I am 99% free, than I am part slave, which is like being " a little bit pregnant". Freedom vs Slavery is a zero-sum game.
yep, still do.
ron paul 2008
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if you build it he will come..........Ron Paul 2012.
digg http://digg.com/autos/First_Genuine_Chevy_Volt_to_be_Complet...
Sutton County.
Sutton County.
doesnt change what i think right now.
it might tomorrow though. interesting to see how it plays out.
ron paul 2008
--------------
if you build it he will come..........Ron Paul 2012.
digg http://digg.com/autos/First_Genuine_Chevy_Volt_to_be_Complet...
If you're right, Barack Obama should be complaining, not Paul
Obama's vote was 12 points less than the last poll average. Is he the victim of massive vote fraud?
Don't blame fraud for Dr. Paul's loss. It's a useless scapegoat and will do nothing to reach new voters in SC, NV, and MI.
If you want Paul to do better, the campaign strategy and the candidate's image need drastic overhaul. If you think this is negative thinking then you need to learn how campaigning works.
Look at this one
As well Obama should. Check this out....
http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php?party=REPUBLICANS
Puppets come and puppets go but the world's stage is getting cluttered.
i know we got more votes!!
That swiftboat style hit piece to day hurt also,In Exit polls show alot of people decided today who they were voting for....
We must fight on we have the Truth!
No surprise
There is most certainly vote fraud or why the hell would they want to get rid of vote watchers. I am getting sick and tired of this bs. There is no way Billary should have won or that Ron Paul is in fifth place. This is a disgrace that people can get away with this blatant corruption, what makes our elections any different than in Kenya? Not much. There is no way that Ron's results should match the damn polls it just doesn't make sense considering all of the independents, and first time voters that surely voted for Ron. If the time comes that it is guaranteed that Ron Paul cannot win the presidency, GOD FORBID, then I think we should look back at what the founders said that would have to be done in times like this.
If the time comes...
that it is guaranteed that Ron Paul cannot win the presidency, GOD FORBID, then I think we should look back at what the founders said that would have to be done in times like this.
founders' intent?
See First and Second Amendments to the Constitution.
Technoklutz
succesion?
Didnt they advocate succesion when the government becomes too facist? im all for it.
this stinks to high heaven
The live free or die state huh...appearently they just chose death. Vote fraud the whole way. Both with Paul and Obama. If not outright vote fraud then New Hamphere is off my cool list forever. Maverick state huh? Vote for change. These people in this so called indepentent state are a bunch of lifeless mouth breathers! Where is the youth vote? Where is the outrage that Dr. Paul was left out of the debate? What happened to the unpolled masses that only have a cell phone? These results need to be looked into!! Live free or die my butt!!
Now that Ron Paul is officially losing
I would like to thank all the 9/11 Truth Deniers and the there's no conspiracy supporters out there. Your tiny bubble of status quo will be perserved!
Not fraud
I live and work in NH and I don't think this is fraud. The people I talk to at work mostly listen to MSM to know what to think about current events. They get their ideas from MSM so they vote as they are programmed to vote. RP's ideas are so far removed from their experience that they can't even consider them yet. This is a revolution and a war. I think we really are only 8 to 12 percent at this point. We have to keep working, but claiming 'vote fraud' is not productive unless it can be demonstrated. All the votes in NH were made on paper and should be verifiable.
we may be 8-12% of population
but as far as VOTERS we should be much higher.
Verifiable?
If you live in NH, you would know that 60% of the votes there are counted by machines. I live in another state and know that.
Bob W., Naples, FL
machine count
Yes. I know that, but we have a paper trail that should be verifiable. My point is that the reported results are consistent with my observation from talking to people at work.