Finally Read Atlas Shrugged...Can someone give me their opinion on...
Submitted by jfarbe1 on Thu, 05/10/2012 - 22:52It was an amazingly interesting book that every person who is liberty minded should read, but there is one thing that keeps bugging me about it. There is a big part in the middle where Dagny gets on a train and when she wakes up the train is abandoned in the middle of the night. She takes control and then gets very angry and sickened by all the passengers because every passenger starts complaining and demanding answers of her etc....
This part really bothered me, because the majority of the book seemed to be about working hard and deserving what you've earned and that success breeds success in a true environment, but this part seemed to make all that lose credibility a little. It just seemed like the very wealthy are just whiney snobs who have no reguard for others. The reason I say this is because one would imagine that every one of those people on that train have paid their fare to Taggart railroad and expect the service that they paid for. The train would not be there if customers were not paying to use it and so I think they are very justified in being concerned and wanting answers. Especially with the way that she treated all of them. If she announces that she is the VP of Operations to all, than she should be very respectful to all its paying passengers and do her best to make them feel accomodated (reguardless of all the crap shes been through). And then after she walks away, to just be damning them and saying that they are scum that Nate Taggart probably never had to deal with is just sickening. If this truly is the book that is concidered the bible for all Libertarian, liberty minded folks, than wouldnt you think that there would be a little more respect for the people that are maybe not as wealthy and ambitions and Dagny but are still paying their fare share for the service shes providing, and in doing so should be treated as such. This part in particular kind of changed it from a thought provoking philosophical book, to one that is just trying to convince us that the rich and powerful are more important.
- Login to post comments
reply
Me thinks maybe you should read it again ... you will see/hear/feel it much differently second time around!
"Letters of Ayn Rand", Leonard Peikoff
"letters of Ayn Rand" is 4 decades of personal letters Ayn write to her family, friends, fans and the rich and famous she adored.
None of us is perfect as we are all human. It seems my studies of Ayn Rand, she was persoannly very giving, very generous with time and gifts. What galled her was how others frlt they deserved things.. and she didn't understand where that came from in people.
So you pay your fare, that is great, and then without caring what the train owners are going through, you complain... you don't pay a fare to complain, but it happens anyways.
The book I mentioned on top is a great book to help understand Ayn Rand. Shes a very humble person by comparison to what she went through. I think she's one of the greatest feminists that evfer lived, without be a feminist.
STAND WITH RAND 2016
Ayn Rand was a pure philosopher
She follows a line of reasoning to arrive at what most would consider extreme positions (in the real world).
But the foundations of what she has to say about economics and Human Action (to steal a Mises concept) is dead on.
In the realm of human relationships, of course selfishness can be a turnoff and a liability.
In the realm of economic behavior, it is enlightened self interest that drives entrepreneurs and gives them the wisdom to make the right efforts toward profit.
In this way their selfishness benefits the entire economy.
But when you are home with the family and kids and friends ... this is another story.
This is why people dont like her.
You raise an interesting point. Rand certainly
had personal and authorial lapses. In the particular passage you mention, I don't see it quite the same way. Here is Dagny trying heroically (yes) to save the economy in the face of impossibles imposed by the government. Her crew abandons the train in protest of the regulations requiring their work, the passengers are made out to be sleeping sheep unaware of the coercion ruining everything.
If Dagny, now faced with saving the passengers single-handedly, and the line, as well as the economy, is rude to people too self-absorbed to comprehend the problems, well I think it could be understood. It is not the message of the novel that the rich or powerful should be privileged. She shows many rich, powerful villains and an assortment of poor, unprivileged individuals who act with dignity and ethics, even heroism.
She's disgusted because they
She's disgusted because they are all sitting there waiting for someone else to solve the problem for them, when instead they should be figuring out how to either help or take care of themselves.
Blessings )o(
Thanks for your replies. I
Thanks for your replies. I understand that this is why shes disgusted, i just dont think its close to a valid reason. Maybe theyre not worthless people, just worthless in this situation because they don't have any idea what help they can be in terms of getting a train system that they have no idea how it runs going in some dark foreign wilderness theyve never been to. This is the point of a republican capitalist society. Not everyone can be of assistance or do for themselves in every aspect of everything. But they do what theyre good at so they have money to get the things they cant do themselves. If i was a doctor and had to do brain surgery and my nurse didnt show up but Dagny was in the waiting room waiting I sure wouldnt expect her to be of any assistance. I would do my best to get the situation handled and be patient and respectful because thats what im being paid for. Ayn Rand and Dagny are so deeply rooted in capitalism that they should not be so disrespectful to the people that are paying what they ask and giving them their success.
by the way, i dont know why im harping about this, just thought it was something interesting to discuss with my fellow daily paulers.
I agree
In Ayn Rand's religion, depending upon another is a sin. The people on the train deserve disdain because they depend on her. Rand is brilliant, and she does achieve consistency in her philosophy, but some of her conclusions are off. She takes great pains to achieve this consistency; she takes principles which apply to government into the personal realm as well. I agree, we all have different talents and callings. Depending on others, sometimes, is a consequence of our natural interdependence. It is a good thing IMO...as long as govenment (and therefore force) doesn't get involved.
It is an entertaining book
It is an entertaining book and makes good points but people take it too far. My biggest problem is the ideology behind the liberty message in the book. The selfishness is a virtue message.
The selfishness idea is just an observation
of human motivation; by Rand's definition selfishness includes all of one's values, such as: caring for one's family, making the world a more beautiful place, caring for the environment -- whatever one values. It is forced compliance with values, causes set by the government that is evil; it makes the policies of that small group of overlords more important than all of the individual concerns and interests and dreams of the many individuals under their control. She points out that selfishness works for free people who accept the Nonaggression Principle. (I don't think the NAP was formulated in her time, but it is implicit in her work.)
Okay what I really should
Okay what I really should have said was that she opposed the idea of self-sacrifice(altruism). I understand her logic and the argument fully. I am not bringing it up here to debate it. I am a Christian and her views are completely incompatible with the teaching of Jesus and the bible.
On Unselfishness...
Consider this, bucko158: Do you not benefit from every 'unselfish' act you perform? In that, I mean do you not feel good about yourself when you do - when you give from the heart? Do you not grow spiriturally and more connected to GOD with every unselfish act you perform? I know that I do, and for this reason I have concluded there are no 'unselfish acts", we all benefit from these interactions based upon love ~ the giver and the receiver. And the giver 10 fold...
If my need to be RIGHT is greater then my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle
Those that are being tortured
Those that are being tortured and martyred for their faith are not doing so out of what is typically defined as selfishness. Now if you want to redefine the meaning to include anytime there is a benefit than I would agree with you.