161 votes

Arizona Convention Live Stream

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ronpaulorbust
I'm in the Delegate Section, hoping to be seated (I'm an Alternate).
Ed in Phoenix
(I'm on the 'Constitutional Conservative' Slate!)
************UPDATE - THE MORNING AFTER********************

Ok, here we go…

As an Alternate Delegate for Arizona Legislative District 15 the first thing I can report to you is that I remained in the ‘Alternate Delegate Section’ of the Convention for fourteen hours without being seated. By the ‘end of the night’, there were only five of the fifteen seats of my LD occupied, but repeated attempts to have me seated by several Delegates were denied. The reason given was that after Credentialing was closed, the set amount of Delegates seated could not rise above that number; in order for Alternates to be seated in the vacated seats, their credentials must be turned in. Of course my LD was stacked from the beginning, and there was no way that they wanted anyone but ‘one of their own’ to vote at all. And I wasn’t alone. Jill Ballard also sat for the duration without being seated (her slot was higher than mine and she would have been seated before me, but that wasn’t happening either).

There is so much info, I have a hard time trying to piece it all together. Let me address the Lamestream Media OUTRIGHT LIE that I saw generated right away, and was picked up by the National feeds, and have been run away with in just a very short time.

MITT ROMNEY’S SON WAS NOT ‘BOOED OFF THE STAGE’. This is a complete fabrication. They crowd did give him some grief because he made the mistake of waving the ‘Unity Slate’ the Romney people were pushing (there’s not supposed to be direct electioneering from the floor), he right away mentioned Ron and was given great applause. The mix-up occurs when the FOLLOWING SPEAKER, a Native-American whose name escapes me for the moment, started calling for everyone to unite under the Romney banner – HE got mercilessly booed to the point he didn’t know what to do, but kept on and was shouted down. Once again the Lamestream Media says something and commenters come out of the woodwork with their armchair opinion of ‘Arizonans’. When are you going to turn that thing off and ASK THE GRASSROOTS what happened?

As for ‘Delegate Count’, I had my slate and kept close attention to any changes sent us. I say this because when we arrived yesterday, after getting Credentialed, we all stood in this loooong line that went out the door to get to the Ron Paul table, just inside the far right-hand door of the hall entrance. Contrast that with a puny 4’x4’ pop-up canopy and a couple of signs and bumper stickers on a table manned by two people (this is all Mitt wanted to pay for I guess). Anyway, when we got to the RP table, our e-mail addresses and cell phone numbers were put into an automated system that text-messaged everyone with any additional information we needed (special instructions and changes to the Slate). In the afternoon, with the Congressional District Caucuses completed, names on our Slate that were elected as Delegates were replaced with others in line. That said, I show eleven Delegates from our Slate elected at the CD level so far: Jill Skayfel, David Guthrie, Richard Gaydosh, John Laurie, Razi Berry, Deb Wells, Patricia Lewis, Gianluca Zanna, Annette Freeman, David Fitzgerald, and Franklin Fiedler. My notes do show a change of substituting Pam Webe (possibly Pam Weber? Text truncated) for Easton Kelsey, but I don’t remember if that was due to his being selected as delegate or not – that is highly possible).

When we were ‘shown the door’ the tallying was not yet complete, and we do not know what the results of the At-Large Delegates or the Alternates yet, and we possibly may never find out. I say this because when the ballots were handed out for these races, it was two pages long. A lot of names. The pages were differentiated by marks on the face the scanners used would recognize. Problem here is, there was nothing on the ballots that would ‘marry’ the two documents in the system! There was no way to tell Delegate #1’s first page of votes from Delegate #2’s second – thereby creating a system allowing any Delegate to make 31 marks on the first page (the maximum number of votes allowed in that round of voting) AND 31 marks on the second page. If the computer can’t tell the difference between Delegate’s pages, it can’t determine an overvote. I believe that due to this error (intentional or not) the results of this round will become null and void.

We’ll see.

While on the subject of ballots, the Delegates were extremely distraught when they got to their CD Caucuses and found out that not only were the ballots not listed in alphabetical order, there was an asterisk next to the names listed first, and a notation at the bottom stating that these Delegates were recognized by the Romney Campaign. This created such a problem that it set back business at least two hours as many of the CD’s demanded that the ballots not be used. Runners had to be sent to Kinkos to print new ballots. By the time it was over, the reason given why some were marked was that supposedly both the Romany and Paul Campaigns were offered to ‘endorse’ (I don’t know if that is the term used by them, but it’s what I perceive) their Delegate preferences on the Ballot Face, but only the Romney Camp took them up on the offer! I can hear it now: “Do you want your people marked? No? Ok, we’ll just mark everybody else then…”

Next, “Robert’s Rules of Order”. The book was waved as a magic wand to create order. That’s about all it was used for. The Chairman was obviously clueless regarding this document, but after many National Conventions and the Continental Congress 2009, where I have had ‘the rules’ used to beat and berate those I stand with to the point that I had to study these rules, I can confidently state that this is not uncommon. Just recently at the Libertarian National Convention, former Chairman Bill Redpath (who has been at it for years) actually promised the Delegation Seated that he would read RROR cover-to-cover in the following year.

Please Mr. Morrisey, I beg you to do the same. If you still hold the Office of Chairman, that is. You see, when the people in charge couldn’t make up their minds as to whether they wanted to declare a quorum (50% + 1 of the Delegates seated) or not, they gave two different interpretations of the rules. At one point, it was stated from the dais that once a quorum was established after Credentialing was closed, the Party could complete all business listed on the Agenda no matter how many Delegates vacated the floor. Then, I guess they decided that was a bad tact, and I saw the Chairman, a former Chairman, and a third individual speaking together, and then the two went around and down off the dais, and went to the front row in front of the podium. One raised his hand and said “Mr. Chairman, I move to adjourn!” which was quickly followed by a second from his cohort, followed by the Chairman ‘proclaiming’ that the Convention was adjourned, and he ran off the stage as quickly as he could. Problem here is, the rules specifically state that adjournment is motioned from the floor, seconded, and voted on by the delegation.

This was not done.

Because this was not done, pandemonium ensued. The Convention was still live. Then, and unnamed individual sprang into action, stepped to the podium, and declared that the Chaiman had abandonded his position (at which point the mike was turned off, and he started shouting to be heard), and entertained motions from the floor to have him removed, and nominations were taken. Matt Papke and LD Chairman David Fitzgerald were both nominated, and nominations were closed, and David Fitzgerald was elected by voice vote. Now all during this action, there were people on the stage actively trying to prevent all this from occurring, but the floor was having none of that. As the New Chairman was starting to speak, three ‘Campus Cops’ from the University came on stage and menacingly approached David, who smartly knew what was happening, and said “Ok, let’s take it to the parking lot” – where we proceeded to as the lights were being shut off.

At this time I wish to point out to the ‘Armchair Brigade’ that it wasn’t ‘the Cops’ and it wasn’t ‘Sheriff Joe’s Goon’s’ sicced on us at the request of the Establishment. When all of this occurred, it was 9 p.m. and the County Officers had left long ago. There was no ‘police presence’ at the City level – we know this because Joe and Bryan (both Delegates and RP Supporters) were physically assaulted on the Delegation Floor earlier that day – but when reported to the County Officers present, we were told that it ‘wasn’t their jurisdiction’ and that Phoenix City Police had to be called in if law enforcement was needed.

Once we were in the parking lot, we proceeded to an area included on the Campus of Grand Canyon College that housed a Church that we had gotten permission from to use their portion of the parking lot for a Ron Paul Hospitality Area (that we had parked a large RV and set up tables with food and drinks). It’s a good this we had this, because the Campus Police tried to chase us off the entire Campus. Not happening. David climbed up on the RV, and spoke candidly to those in attendance. He said that we would be fooling ourselves if we tried to conduct any business there, but we definitely made our presence know, and that we were on track to populate the Republican Party Leadership with American Patriots that believe in and follow the ‘Rule of Law’. There were plenty of videocameras in play, and I’m sure you will see a lot more than I am able to relate here.
Many untold thanks to all who came to our spot in the desert to restore Representation of the PEOPLE instead of the Good-Old-Boy Network that has had a stranglehold on Arizona Politics for far too long.

Let it not be said we did nothing.

Good job.

Ed in Phoenix

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Mittens can't win Treg! Today

Mittens can't win Treg! Today was proof of that!!!

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Just cut out the stereoptypical words against fellow RPers

All I'm asking.

And thanks for your work. WAY more than I did in my life for RP.

But umm, 18 weeks is just how long Ive been at DP.

Friend to Minarchists, AnCaps, Voluntaryists, Agorists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, Paul Supporters, Free Marketeers, Jeffersonians, Status Quo Buckers, and Ron Paul Fans.

Pax Libertas. Semper Veritas. Semper Res Publica.

If I had been at the AZ convention

I'd have been one of those cheering Ron Paul, not to annoy those wearing blinders but to show support for a movement that is years too long in coming. Being confrontational to a person expressing their views is a different matter, but showing great enthusiasm for this r3volution I do not see as a bad thing whether the purposely ignorant see it that way or not. Without that enthusiasm, THIS movement ceases to exist.

There is chanting to affect an audience.

There is chanting to affect an audience.
There is chanting to simply vent off.

Yours seems to be the latter.

It doesn't matter that you have spent countless hours studying the Constitution. It doesn't matter that you have seen the govt's unconstitutional reports on Youtube. It does not matter if you feel like one of the next steps of the govt is to declare You (and Me) terrorists for supporting LIBERTY.

What matters is that if you are trying to get all of these Romney delegates who before were Bush delegates twice, and before they were Bush Sr delegates, and before that they were Reagan's, you have to know them and you have to have the skills to adjust the message for them, specifically...

How do you think these people will become Ron Paul supporters, ever? Presentation matters. See the book recommendation below.

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All those delegates for all

All those delegates for all of those years supporting all of those criminals and you want me to give a damn about them??? Screw that. The future belongs to the youth!!!!

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Please make this its own thread...

I encountered similar at the MA conventions.

A unaffiliated older woman trying to be a delegate was passing out information on herself and a middle age RP supporter jumped down her throat. I was embarrassed for the movement.

Can we please change hearts by our actions like the good doc preaches...

Comments made about RPP ( here is the link)

http://www.dailypaul.com/232944/comments-made-about-rpp

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

If we were outnumbered 3 to 1, then getting 6 or 7 delegates...

... out of 29 is actually pretty good. Do you know how we did on the alternates?

I agree that, as a group, we tend to have more zeal than wisdom, and this can leave a bad impression with those that we need to persuade if we want to grow as a movement.

So, you are saying that all the excitement at the end was over the possibility of us picking up 1 delegate, and that we could not reconvene because we lacked a quorum? What about the "ballot-box stuffing" that others here have written about?

Thank you for attending the Convention; I know it ran really late.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

Yes Andrew, we got 30% which is amazing considering Paul

received 8% of the popular vote. This is Kyle/McCain GOP who has been 100% behind Romney. The whole State GOP is for Romney, long gone are the Pat Robertson types and the Steve Forbes types.

Further, after listening to former Newt and Santorum supporters who are now "throwing in for Romney cause Obama must be stopped", I think there is a bit of resentment that we are not throwing in too. Which is understandable. Its a feeling. Acknowledge it. Its real. And of course they have every right to feel put off that we do not throw in. And they are confused, really, why we are not.

I found myself saying that I think we would "throw in" for Romney if he would "JUST GIVE US SOMETHING, JUST ONE THING OUT OF RON PAUL'S LIST OF Positions but Romney the other day said he would NOT cut $1 trillion out of the budget, it would hurt the economy he said. Well if you can't do at least that, then what you get is a bunch of angry Ron People". That was an out, because you know for us its the whole list, notice we are having trouble with Rand Paul. It just may be Judge Napolitano 2016, not Rand!!!

Anyway, yes it was all over the Committeewoman vote for Karen Johnson. Yes, there was not a quorum on the floor to do a runoff vote. It will have to be done by paper mail.

As far as "Ballot Stuffing" I did not see any, and I doubt it 99.9% --- I watched as an observer for about 45 min.(there were dozens of us RP observers) No, I was not watching the whole time, but enough. I had my camera phone, anyone could have recorded "ballot stuffing". The GOP is filled with good honest people and its honest people who just have not the ability to think of liberty ACROSS all the issues. The counting was was all done above board as far as I could see. Why stuff? You have the 2/3rd numbers. Karen was in a 3 way race, its tough. The Convention's big problem was having just two scanners to scan all the ballots. Each ballot was meticulously handled, counted, and sorted by CD group. Then each was scanned properly. Its as fair as it gets. If it was anyone who wanted to ballot stuff it would us, we had all the extra alternate delegates sitting there... but we never touched a ballot.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Really Treg?

I was in the backroom where they were counting the ballots for hours yesterday. 4 of the 5 voting machines broke by the end of the night and they were left with only one machine counting - that's why it was taking so long. Overall, the counting was fair but there are many unanswered questions. Peace. Ron Paul 2012.

Ok, so you were there. So was I. Did you see "ballot stuffing"

I did not. Did you? And would you not say that they were being very HONEST and not one of them had any desire to cheat anyone?

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

So how many delegates and alternates did we get?

Is the count complete? Thanks.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

Don't know

We were kicked out. I believe there may have been 1 or 2 of us left to witness the end of the count, but I don't know. It will be days-weeks before we find anything out. I would not be surprised if the state convention is reconvened for the at large votes. Too many inconsistencies. I'm still praying that our vote for Karen Johnson sticks. This is going to be MO part 2.

I thank you for the post but...

In all honesty, why would I want to be 'friends' with the MORON you described? I mean, I understand about being mean or forceful when speaking to Romney supporters, I agree too, it should calm down.

But who cares about what someone like that thinks?

Constant chanting? Yeah we're enthused

So distrustful? Yeah, because the GOP old guard Neocons are liars and cheats

Drugs? Yeah we're Libertarian minded overall, and feel the drug war has failed.

Ron Pauls age? So she's an Ageist douchebag too?

She dislikes the Constitution or reference to it? Screw her

Ron Paul people are bussed in? LMAO

I'm not having them to my church? Good, a lot of us are Atheists, I wouldn't want to go to your stupid church anyways where you probably wear big hats like you're at the Kentucky Derby and drinking Mimosas.

Again, she sounds like an idiot.

But yeah, we should be more 'friendly' to the ones who deserve it.

Friend to Minarchists, AnCaps, Voluntaryists, Agorists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, Paul Supporters, Free Marketeers, Jeffersonians, Status Quo Buckers, and Ron Paul Fans.

Pax Libertas. Semper Veritas. Semper Res Publica.

I see your point to an extent, now see mine!

I wouldn't want to go to your stupid church anyways where you probably wear big hats like you're at the Kentucky Derby and drinking Mimosas.

See, now if you had said "I wouldn't want to go to your stupid church where you probably think you're holier than thou", I'd see your point, because she's being judgmental, and representing her church in a bad light; however, assuming her wardrobe is the same type of stereotypical thinking that bothers you about her, no?

What if Ms. Carol Paul wore a large hat to church? Would it change anything?

Now, where I agree with you:

  • Ageism: Remember when we were admonished to respect our elders? Then Dr. Paul aged :P
  • Drug War: Admitting the Drug War was a failure does not make one a stoner. William F. Buckley became more inclined toward legalizing marijuana before he divested from National Review. Is he a hippie now?
  • Distrust based on past transgression: See Maine, Nevada, Missouri.
  • Quoting the Constitution! It's not like the bible, where one can adopt it or not. It's the law of the land, the terms of social contract.
  • No reason to resort to shouting people down or insulting church, though. I don't attend a church, but it's nice if people have a spiritual home. It's not an exclusive club they should hold over people's heads, though. That's sacrilege!

LOL you didn't get my joke

I don't think all church goers wear big hats and drink Mimosas.

Geez.

I meant she seemed like the TYPE that wore big hats and sipped Mimosas.

As in, goes to church because it's 'social'.

Friend to Minarchists, AnCaps, Voluntaryists, Agorists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, Paul Supporters, Free Marketeers, Jeffersonians, Status Quo Buckers, and Ron Paul Fans.

Pax Libertas. Semper Veritas. Semper Res Publica.

Thanks for proving treg

Thanks for proving treg right. This is the rEVOLution, but there are still some who fly off the handlebars and fall through plate glass windows. The post sounds uneducated and are disrespectful. This attitude is getting borderline trollish.

I attempted to bring a little peace to a thread about protesting Romneys appearance at Liberty University because of his Mormonism, but got some flack for it because I sensed it would be offensive to Mormons. http://www.dailypaul.com/232836/liberty-university-students-...

Seek first to understand THEN to be understood.

Another book recommend: http://www.amazon.com/The-Habits-Highly-Effective-People/dp/...

Don't tell me how to 'support" RP

I've been on this train since 2003, diehard.

I'll do it my way, you do it yours.

The GOP establishment has done EVERYTHING to subvert and slander one of the only heroes in my life.

The media has done everything it can to make us obsolete and unheard.

I know what the stakes are.

Now I agree respect should be given but should also be earned. And the GOP/Romney camp aint earning it from me

AND F your TROLL reference...come near to calling me a troll again and you can talk to yourself.

Friend to Minarchists, AnCaps, Voluntaryists, Agorists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, Paul Supporters, Free Marketeers, Jeffersonians, Status Quo Buckers, and Ron Paul Fans.

Pax Libertas. Semper Veritas. Semper Res Publica.

I don't think his comment was just asking for Romney Respect

Maybe Romney has dis-earned Respect, with his pandering and flip-flopping, but the LDS faith shouldn't be direspected because or in spite of any single Mormon candidate.

Back in '08, when I supported Romney, I hated the bigoted anti-LDS sentiment one could whiff in the air whenever a Huckabee ad aired, or when Southern polls were released :P Now, as a Ron Paul supporter, I STILL hate it. I don't want to win by riding those winds, and I don't think Dr. Paul would, either.

The Ron Paul campaign had LDS outreach in Nevada :) We prefer to reach out, not slap down.

I understand your sentiment,

but realize that your sentiment is one of the main reasons the establishment was able to divide the people in the first place. It is mankind's inherent need to have an enemy. This is the reason it was so easy to launch so many wars and why issues like marriage, race, culture, being gay and religion could be used to drive the people against itself.

The best way, is the way without enemies. There's no easier way to manipulate people than pointing them towards an enemy. If you MUST have an enemy, it's only after trying everything possible available to you. Even if you moderate your words towards people, they will simply sense your hostility behind your demeanor. That's no way to grow a revolution.

I'm a Ron Paul supporter. All

I'm a Ron Paul supporter. All other in this field represent things which are ABHORRENT to me.

Namely WAR, and the Federal Reserve system, along with amplified Statism.

I don't wish to 'get along' with them because I personally could care less about the hard core Romney fans, the ones which sound like the MORON you spoke of.

If you want to befriend them , go ahead. I have Millions of names of dead babies overseas which make me think otherwise.

You support Ron YOUR way, and I'll support him mine.

I'm not embarrassed to be a RP supporter. I'm enthusiastic, diehard, outspoken. I don't wish to convert anyone, people with collectivist tendencies make up their minds before, during, and even AFTER all the facts are given to them.

Now I agree that RP supporters should tone it down on the aggression in debates or in public, and we do. I've knwn many RP people and they're are the most respectful kind people I know.

Your snippet doesn't speak about us as a whole.

I'm just not interested in gaining 'friends' while those very friends are out to subvert the process of caucus/convention and get me involved in WW3...

But to each his/her own.

Friend to Minarchists, AnCaps, Voluntaryists, Agorists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, Paul Supporters, Free Marketeers, Jeffersonians, Status Quo Buckers, and Ron Paul Fans.

Pax Libertas. Semper Veritas. Semper Res Publica.

"Now I agree that RP

"Now I agree that RP supporters should tone it down on the aggression in debates or in public, and we do." Then why don't you?

if they are not following rules

then they deserve what they get. i don't mind being divided between cheaters and honest patriots. the difference between cheaters and those that follow the rules has nothing to do with being divided on philosophical issues such as mariage, religion, and culture. it is a fallacious argument. If someone is blatantly cheating me, they are my enemy. If someone disagrees with me, they are entitled to their opinion.

Technically, a revolution is

Technically, a revolution is "a forcible overthrow of a government or social order", so hostility and a lack of civility would be expected. Since ours is a "love revolution" I get it that we should be the ones who are the civil ones.

Please calm down. Not

Please calm down.
Not everyone sees the world in the same way.
Let's spend some hours trying to see the world though the eyes of those people and we'll find the way to show them the world as we see it.

The fact of the matter is

The fact of the matter is that at the end of the day you will be left alone in a cold dark corner if you treat people who you do not agree with in an offensive manner. It doesn't matter what the topic is. Your favorite color, food, or philosophy. You do not spread ideas by being a bully.

I can't agree more with you!!

I was there (Not inside on the floor, but outside during the breaks while everyone was outside) and I noticed the same. Our camp tends to isolate ourselves in our self righteousness and to judge others. All the while we forget that most of us, not that long ago, were THE SAME as the ones we judge.

"I think that we all could use several courses on "HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE" by Dale Carnegie"

Please get this book and read it and learn from it: http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/14...

This is an important post deserving its own thread

People have to remember that if this goes to a brokered convention, these people will need to be convinced to vote for RP eventually. We are basically disenfranchising potential allies. The one thing people hate is a know-it-all, even if that know-it-all has it right.

Enthusiasm is a great thing, but some grace goes a long way in gaining respect.