161 votes

Arizona Convention Live Stream

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ronpaulorbust
I'm in the Delegate Section, hoping to be seated (I'm an Alternate).
Ed in Phoenix
(I'm on the 'Constitutional Conservative' Slate!)
************UPDATE - THE MORNING AFTER********************

Ok, here we go…

As an Alternate Delegate for Arizona Legislative District 15 the first thing I can report to you is that I remained in the ‘Alternate Delegate Section’ of the Convention for fourteen hours without being seated. By the ‘end of the night’, there were only five of the fifteen seats of my LD occupied, but repeated attempts to have me seated by several Delegates were denied. The reason given was that after Credentialing was closed, the set amount of Delegates seated could not rise above that number; in order for Alternates to be seated in the vacated seats, their credentials must be turned in. Of course my LD was stacked from the beginning, and there was no way that they wanted anyone but ‘one of their own’ to vote at all. And I wasn’t alone. Jill Ballard also sat for the duration without being seated (her slot was higher than mine and she would have been seated before me, but that wasn’t happening either).

There is so much info, I have a hard time trying to piece it all together. Let me address the Lamestream Media OUTRIGHT LIE that I saw generated right away, and was picked up by the National feeds, and have been run away with in just a very short time.

MITT ROMNEY’S SON WAS NOT ‘BOOED OFF THE STAGE’. This is a complete fabrication. They crowd did give him some grief because he made the mistake of waving the ‘Unity Slate’ the Romney people were pushing (there’s not supposed to be direct electioneering from the floor), he right away mentioned Ron and was given great applause. The mix-up occurs when the FOLLOWING SPEAKER, a Native-American whose name escapes me for the moment, started calling for everyone to unite under the Romney banner – HE got mercilessly booed to the point he didn’t know what to do, but kept on and was shouted down. Once again the Lamestream Media says something and commenters come out of the woodwork with their armchair opinion of ‘Arizonans’. When are you going to turn that thing off and ASK THE GRASSROOTS what happened?

As for ‘Delegate Count’, I had my slate and kept close attention to any changes sent us. I say this because when we arrived yesterday, after getting Credentialed, we all stood in this loooong line that went out the door to get to the Ron Paul table, just inside the far right-hand door of the hall entrance. Contrast that with a puny 4’x4’ pop-up canopy and a couple of signs and bumper stickers on a table manned by two people (this is all Mitt wanted to pay for I guess). Anyway, when we got to the RP table, our e-mail addresses and cell phone numbers were put into an automated system that text-messaged everyone with any additional information we needed (special instructions and changes to the Slate). In the afternoon, with the Congressional District Caucuses completed, names on our Slate that were elected as Delegates were replaced with others in line. That said, I show eleven Delegates from our Slate elected at the CD level so far: Jill Skayfel, David Guthrie, Richard Gaydosh, John Laurie, Razi Berry, Deb Wells, Patricia Lewis, Gianluca Zanna, Annette Freeman, David Fitzgerald, and Franklin Fiedler. My notes do show a change of substituting Pam Webe (possibly Pam Weber? Text truncated) for Easton Kelsey, but I don’t remember if that was due to his being selected as delegate or not – that is highly possible).

When we were ‘shown the door’ the tallying was not yet complete, and we do not know what the results of the At-Large Delegates or the Alternates yet, and we possibly may never find out. I say this because when the ballots were handed out for these races, it was two pages long. A lot of names. The pages were differentiated by marks on the face the scanners used would recognize. Problem here is, there was nothing on the ballots that would ‘marry’ the two documents in the system! There was no way to tell Delegate #1’s first page of votes from Delegate #2’s second – thereby creating a system allowing any Delegate to make 31 marks on the first page (the maximum number of votes allowed in that round of voting) AND 31 marks on the second page. If the computer can’t tell the difference between Delegate’s pages, it can’t determine an overvote. I believe that due to this error (intentional or not) the results of this round will become null and void.

We’ll see.

While on the subject of ballots, the Delegates were extremely distraught when they got to their CD Caucuses and found out that not only were the ballots not listed in alphabetical order, there was an asterisk next to the names listed first, and a notation at the bottom stating that these Delegates were recognized by the Romney Campaign. This created such a problem that it set back business at least two hours as many of the CD’s demanded that the ballots not be used. Runners had to be sent to Kinkos to print new ballots. By the time it was over, the reason given why some were marked was that supposedly both the Romany and Paul Campaigns were offered to ‘endorse’ (I don’t know if that is the term used by them, but it’s what I perceive) their Delegate preferences on the Ballot Face, but only the Romney Camp took them up on the offer! I can hear it now: “Do you want your people marked? No? Ok, we’ll just mark everybody else then…”

Next, “Robert’s Rules of Order”. The book was waved as a magic wand to create order. That’s about all it was used for. The Chairman was obviously clueless regarding this document, but after many National Conventions and the Continental Congress 2009, where I have had ‘the rules’ used to beat and berate those I stand with to the point that I had to study these rules, I can confidently state that this is not uncommon. Just recently at the Libertarian National Convention, former Chairman Bill Redpath (who has been at it for years) actually promised the Delegation Seated that he would read RROR cover-to-cover in the following year.

Please Mr. Morrisey, I beg you to do the same. If you still hold the Office of Chairman, that is. You see, when the people in charge couldn’t make up their minds as to whether they wanted to declare a quorum (50% + 1 of the Delegates seated) or not, they gave two different interpretations of the rules. At one point, it was stated from the dais that once a quorum was established after Credentialing was closed, the Party could complete all business listed on the Agenda no matter how many Delegates vacated the floor. Then, I guess they decided that was a bad tact, and I saw the Chairman, a former Chairman, and a third individual speaking together, and then the two went around and down off the dais, and went to the front row in front of the podium. One raised his hand and said “Mr. Chairman, I move to adjourn!” which was quickly followed by a second from his cohort, followed by the Chairman ‘proclaiming’ that the Convention was adjourned, and he ran off the stage as quickly as he could. Problem here is, the rules specifically state that adjournment is motioned from the floor, seconded, and voted on by the delegation.

This was not done.

Because this was not done, pandemonium ensued. The Convention was still live. Then, and unnamed individual sprang into action, stepped to the podium, and declared that the Chaiman had abandonded his position (at which point the mike was turned off, and he started shouting to be heard), and entertained motions from the floor to have him removed, and nominations were taken. Matt Papke and LD Chairman David Fitzgerald were both nominated, and nominations were closed, and David Fitzgerald was elected by voice vote. Now all during this action, there were people on the stage actively trying to prevent all this from occurring, but the floor was having none of that. As the New Chairman was starting to speak, three ‘Campus Cops’ from the University came on stage and menacingly approached David, who smartly knew what was happening, and said “Ok, let’s take it to the parking lot” – where we proceeded to as the lights were being shut off.

At this time I wish to point out to the ‘Armchair Brigade’ that it wasn’t ‘the Cops’ and it wasn’t ‘Sheriff Joe’s Goon’s’ sicced on us at the request of the Establishment. When all of this occurred, it was 9 p.m. and the County Officers had left long ago. There was no ‘police presence’ at the City level – we know this because Joe and Bryan (both Delegates and RP Supporters) were physically assaulted on the Delegation Floor earlier that day – but when reported to the County Officers present, we were told that it ‘wasn’t their jurisdiction’ and that Phoenix City Police had to be called in if law enforcement was needed.

Once we were in the parking lot, we proceeded to an area included on the Campus of Grand Canyon College that housed a Church that we had gotten permission from to use their portion of the parking lot for a Ron Paul Hospitality Area (that we had parked a large RV and set up tables with food and drinks). It’s a good this we had this, because the Campus Police tried to chase us off the entire Campus. Not happening. David climbed up on the RV, and spoke candidly to those in attendance. He said that we would be fooling ourselves if we tried to conduct any business there, but we definitely made our presence know, and that we were on track to populate the Republican Party Leadership with American Patriots that believe in and follow the ‘Rule of Law’. There were plenty of videocameras in play, and I’m sure you will see a lot more than I am able to relate here.
Many untold thanks to all who came to our spot in the desert to restore Representation of the PEOPLE instead of the Good-Old-Boy Network that has had a stranglehold on Arizona Politics for far too long.

Let it not be said we did nothing.

Good job.

Ed in Phoenix

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Campaign strategy????

I do not know why there is not more help from the campaign. I emailed them and requested help for the states conventions from here on out- send ur attorney if necessary. Perhaps we should all be inquiring as we really need experienced people and campaign support.

Nlaw

In my opinion

The strategy was to bring a majority to the Convention and get our delegates elected. We did not do this.

Yes, we did get some delegates elected in our Congressional District Caucuses, but overall we did not deliver.

One thing people aren't talking about at all yet, is that Romney's campaign is trying to get the penalty for early primaries lifted. This will double the number of delegates he brings to the RNC in some states like ours. That is why we voted on 58 delegates and 58 alternates today instead of 29.

Website with a List of Ron Paul Supporters Just Sprang Up

Just found this website when I searched for Arizona news just now.
Getting personal and dirty.

http://sonoranalliance.com/2012/05/12/list-of-ron-paul-fanat...

We are like the mechanism of a watch: each part is essential.

just posted my comment

"List of Ron Paul Fanatics" ???????????????????
This is not even a drop in the r3VOLution ocean !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think a great majority of NON RP supporters use the tag "Republican" to describe what you are NOT more so than than to describe what you are. You know, you're not a Dem, Libertarian, Constitutionalist ..... etc, so, by process of elimination you call yourselves Republicans.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis

I left a message...

and didn't have to register. So should you.

Furthermore,

What i want to know

is what the Paul campaign is doing this weekend, that's what i want to know.....no guidance, no lawyers....Grrrr If this is switching gears i like first gear better...

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams

They

have been pretty clear that they don't agree with us taking over the primary states. So we are on our own. So be it. The fight goes on.

Let's back up. Did it appear that we had the majority...

... of delegates at the beginning of the convention? If we did, then did we try to elect our own Chairman, Secretary, etc.? What was the result? Thanks.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

No majority

While we did have a lot of RP people there, it is my belief we were outnumbered. We only won 2 of 9 Congressional District Caucus delegate votes.

There was no election of the Chairman or Secretary... this all happened months ago... in January, I am told.

The most important thing we can learn here:

Is that people need to have a strategy to deal with strong arm tactics. You see how easily they routed RP supporters simply by making use of the cops.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me the way to deal with cops, is to have a videocamera at the scene TOGETHER with a lawyer. If the cop tries to send you away or orders you to shut off the camera, a lawyer being present citing violation of the law and lawsuits (especially if the lawyer can prove that the cops themselves are operating unlawfully) might scare them off. Together with video evidence, even a cop would scamper off. Cops are humans too and the one thing they hate is if there's someone who has the capability of trumping their authority.

It's essentially like rock, paper, scissors.

Lawyer > cop/sergeant in arms > delegate/camera person

If anyone has a better strategy in dealing with cops, I would like to hear it. I already heard some people citing they sent letters in advance. That's a good idea as well.

I did not have access to Ustream, and, for most of the day...

... posts of the proceedings were very spotty. I know it is late, but could someone please post a recap, so that we can all have some idea of what happened in Arizona today? (I know how it ended, but I want to know how we got to that point.) Thank you!

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

the big thing was ballot

the big thing was ballot stuffing. People were caught putting multiple ballots in at once and the head chairman actually said it was ok to do that.

Is there a recording of the

Is there a recording of the head chairman saying this?

No

There was never any recognition by the chairman of this. The only person who spoke up about it did so without being recognized by the Chairman (of course, no one was because Roberts Rules were not being followed by anybody - party officials, or elected delegates.

Its a mess

Votes were being contested. The cops came and kicked people out. Some people were allegedly left behind (Romney people) to do business I guess, some alleged RP supporters there too.

Not to much getting out about what happened exactly.

Anyways, doors closed, kicked out, no vote to reconvene, tried to move to parking lot, cops came and said get out, people left.

We have no official word on where the delegates went or when or if the convention is reconvened. It's FUBAR.

Friend to Minarchists, AnCaps, Voluntaryists, Agorists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, Paul Supporters, Free Marketeers, Jeffersonians, Status Quo Buckers, and Ron Paul Fans.

Pax Libertas. Semper Veritas. Semper Res Publica.

See that's the critical part

See that's the critical part which needs video documentation. Having such documentation of what exactly happened with police action could INVALIDATE the entire convention.

Police CANNOT arbitrarily break up private party conventions, throwing out only a subset of people.

Immoral funding of Military Industrial Complex by Federal Reserve and US taxation system must stop!!!! End illegal/unconstitutional wars! Preserve US currency!
http://facebook.com/NoPropagandaZone
http://twitter.com/the_chiefe71

Any RP state delegation should go in with legal counsel

Our district convention was conducted fairly because we had legal counsel writing letters (a couple of weeks ahead) with intent of filing suit if it was not failry conducted.

I agree!

We need to sent a letter of intent by our lawyers to all future RNC's to inform them that shenanagins will not be tolerated.

Important!

Send all evidence of fraud to shawnd@ronpaul2012.com

Don't just send it to one

Don't just send it to one person. Send it to everyone -- even MSM.

This is what the bo-bots

are going to see - the RmoneyGOP has no CLUE! They'll look at this footage and see chaos! That they can't even conduct a simple delegate election. This will just feed their base and I don't think it will look good to those indys and blue-dems who have been thinking of switching their party.

If the GOP can't even run something as simple as this - and I know they were doing illegal things at every turn - how do they expect to beat BO? GOP shananigans is no where near as sophisticated as what the Chicago-backed BO admin will do.

Oh sure, they'll try to blame it on the RP supporters, but the footage doesn't lie - only those who will try their best to misrepresent what is happening on the footage will lie.

This GOP must be gotten rid of and I just pray that at all future conventions the RP campaign is clear as to who its choice is to be nominated as chair (so if he/she loses at least the RP delegates know who to turn to and not some plant who gets on top of a bus) and that they have a parliamentarian present just for the RP campaign.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

Yours is a perspective of beating Barack Obama only.

Most people here AFAIK are for electing Ron Paul. PERIOD! There is a huge difference in goals and perspective.

As for the Romney supporters leaving and then RP supporters getting overly confident that this is OK 2.0, then getting kicked out, and then willingly simply leaving. Not sure of the Romneys didn't get back and finished business. We will know this tomorrow or Monday for sure.

Robert's Rules of Order Information

Order of Business and other "Cliff Notes" on procedure
http://parliamentarians.org/basics-presiding.php

Robert's Rule Changes
http://www.robertsrules.com/changes11.html

► Let's be focused ◄

I see that a lot of people are frustrated, but we need to focus our anger correctly.

1) Many are angry at Harold (the video streamer), well you know he isn't the leader or anything just another RP supporter recording the event, cut him some slack he did more than most other RP supporters.

2) The guy that went on the RV was voted on inside before leaving as chairman (I believe) and he is a known RP supporter even received RP endorsement.

3) The GOP closed the event and kicked them out with the cops, so unless they wanted to get arrested they didn't have any options. Plus many thought they could do something outside like Oklahoma did.

4) I don't know the rules well or the details, but who knows if AZ could've done what OK did outside, maybe it was a different situation. Or maybe it was just a bad call on David Fitzgerald's part, not sure, but don't get pissed unless you ARE sure.

What is really frustrating is the Romney GOP completely acting like thugs, hiding the mics from the RP people, etc. And also what was up with the RP campaign? Where were they to guide the supporters? AZ was completely disorganized from the bottom down, other states need to learn from this, everyone also needs to be recording.

Arizona

Agreed with your comments. Harold the video guy is obviously not a leader. He's just a volunteer with a camera.

My guess is that more people are frustrated, not at individuals per se but at the organization in general. Watching the extremely well event in the Oky parking log followed by the debauched event in Arizona caused people to be disappointed.

I noticed what appeared to be some pro members making suggestions in the live chat. One guy was even typing a telephone number of a parliamentarian begging anyone watching to give it to a delegate on the floor. It was chaos and people reacted with harsh comments.

After the dust settles I'm sure everyone will realized that it was simply a matter of a failure of leadership and communication in Arizona.

Maybe next time send some Oky dudes over to Arizona?

We are like the mechanism of a watch: each part is essential.

Not a leader?

Harold the video guy? Wow, that's just a little demeaning.

Harold was in the belly of the beast all day, by himself filming and streaming the thuggery for the entire world to see live. He was also a alternate delegate candidate!

I salute you Harold. You are the fuckin man.

Nobody here is "MAD" at Harold. He rocks.

Furthermore, this is serious stuff. We are worried about Shenanians going on and have a right to try and use DP as a communication outlet to get to people on the ground at the convention.

Now please butt out and let us be 'hyper', this is not play time.

Friend to Minarchists, AnCaps, Voluntaryists, Agorists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, Paul Supporters, Free Marketeers, Jeffersonians, Status Quo Buckers, and Ron Paul Fans.

Pax Libertas. Semper Veritas. Semper Res Publica.

Wow, please don't misunderstand me

I completely agree that the Romney thuggery needs to be dealt with, using DP is useful for that.

All I'm saying is that we need to criticize the right people, ie the Romney/GOP people and the lack of campaign organization.

You may not be mad at Harold, but i've read dozens of comments against him mainly from ustream but some here at DP, so get your facts straight before calling me out.

This IS serious stuff, and not time for childish rants at the wrong people, that's what I want to use DP as a communication outlet so don't tell me to "butt out" you're not the gatekeeper here...

Can't believe AZ no leadership?

Even PHOENIX area alone has 1297 RP activists based on meetup: http://www.meetup.com/RonPaulPhoenix/

Can't believe there is no leadership? A birth place of Gold Water.

Sheriff ARPAIO, Maricopa County, PHOENIX or City Cops?

Where the officers there Sheriffs or Phoenix Police?

Friend to Minarchists, AnCaps, Voluntaryists, Agorists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, Paul Supporters, Free Marketeers, Jeffersonians, Status Quo Buckers, and Ron Paul Fans.

Pax Libertas. Semper Veritas. Semper Res Publica.