-43 votes

Regarding the OK "sweep"

Regarding the Oklahoma "sweep" tonight. I made a comment with my new account (been a long time lurker) and was basically called a Romney plant. This is what it said.

"I hate to burst everyone's bubble here but, aleph0 is right in that ALL of Oklahoma's delegates are bound for all rounds of voting at the national convention according to state party rules (disregarding rule 38 because I don't think it applies or will fly at the national convention even if it did). However, since Santorum(14) and Gingrich(13) dropped out I believe their delegates can vote for whoever they want even during the first round (though I might be wrong about this, they could possibly now be bound to Romney, I'm not sure, have to look up state party rules) . So what that means is we have picked up a POSSIBLE 27 votes in the first round and following rounds."

Romney won 13 delegates and I'm not sure how the 3 party leader delegates will vote.

I'd like to add these two points too. The talk of changing state party rules to unbind delegates so they can vote for Paul is wrong. I am pretty sure the RNC has a rule against such a thing and will not allow it. Elections have already taken place and therefore delegates are held to the state party rules that existed at the time of the election or when they were submitted to the RNC.

All of this depends on the RNC recognizing that the convention held earlier was done and adjourned illegally and that the Paul convention later (lets call it what it is) was done legally and they recognize it. I believe in 2008 in Nevada when a similar thing happened, the RNC did not recognize the Paul convention.




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My undestanding of Rule 38

is that the binding of ENTIRE delegations is not permitted by the National organization. To get around this the individual states apply to the RNC it's rules when they apply for inclusion in the primary or caucus system. Look at Phillippe's letter to the Nevada State GOP for reference to this. When the individual states wish to get around the Unit Rule they merely have their Super Delegates , whom they know are party loyalist, included in the unit and they are free to vote for anyone they wish,nod, nod, wink, wink. They are claiming however that all other delegates are bound under the rules submitted to the RNC. The inclusion of the Super Delegate's is going to be their reason to ignore Rule 38 of the National's rules. It's all about the way the rules were submitted by the state to the national.

If not us than who?

Did we still have a quorum

Did we still have a quorum when the Roms left the OK convention?

23

the requirement for a quorum

the requirement for a quorum was 100 delegates and there were over 300 in the parking lot

Quorum

2 Schools of thought I have seen on this:

1. Nobody ever actually called for a quorum, so it wasn't needed.

2. Even if someone had called for quorum, since the credentials report was never properly approved, the quorum wasn't established until the convention moved outdoors.

Hopefully we are right on both counts.

I dont

I don't know about you guys but the GOP has been breaking some major rules and the "romney victory" illegal bonding the RNC is engaged in with romney is an outrage, its a crime by finance law and against the rules that are the backbone of what is or was the republican party.
Its not acceptable by any measure.

Do we know the principals of war? Devide and Conquer.
This is war I guess. People are tired of this crap.
Ron Paul has critical mass.
I understand that bringing the republican party back to its roots was the goal.
But the party establishment has ensured that will not be the case this go round.
My point is they cannot devide us. We should become the party for the Republic and swallow this bogus two party system they feed. We are big enough. I don't think we can lose.
Ron Paul cannot ever lose my support no matter what.
But I can say its getting quite difficult to be part of the GOP when I dont support any of their actions.

Don't hate the player, hate the game!!!

You lost any...

credibility when you said "..because I don't think it applies". Followed by "though I might be wrong about this, they could possibly now be bound to Romney, I'm not sure,"!
I suggest you know for sure and then provide facts.. Or state beforehand that this is merely your opinion...

When Fascism goes to sleep, it checks under the bed for Ron Paul!

This article is a perfect example of what is corruption

A Party divided is a party that will fall.

I asked the person who claimed at my last Republican Central Committe meeting, that they were going to be the delegate for Romney, "Why don't I see any Romney yard signs or bumper stickers?" They say, the campaign hasn't sent them any. They don't appear very happy with their campaign. Bet they vote for Ron Paul. My camapaign signs compete with home made Ron Paul signs (I have no idea who put them up).

The same meeting, a guest showed up. They wouldn't say who they liked Romney or Paul.. leaning for Romney. I wouldn't shut up about Ron Paul. So finally, they pull out two Ron Paul campaign buttons (Apparently people were vending in the parking lots of the UCs Ron's been visiting, as this person claims they were at the meeting in Davis and it was awesome.) Now there's two, and I'll find more.

Wee the people want Ron Paul. If the establishment insists Romney by playing musical rules, (which ever rule fits the establishment and not the people, the establishment is going to find out we don't need them). Truth is pouring like rain, and those who seek truth and peace are "morphing" to Ron Paul.

For all the faults of the Ron Paul campaign, we are winning and we know it. Get Romney out of the way and let us go after Obama (which is what you really don't want, eh?).

This discussion is getting old - the OP is wrong

As I've stated in this comment:
http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2450017
[excerpt]
" ...it doesn't matter what a State's rules declare - once you have reached the National Convention, the main Convention's rules supersede and overrule any before it. It must, or there would be far too many ways to undermine the National vote! You do see why that has to be, right?"
"As to interpretation of the rules; this is the only thing that has similarities to how our laws are interpreted ... with precedent from Case Law and rulings of Counsel. If what Ben read from is a true, verbatim document released by the RNC's own legal counsel, that is the ruling everyone must follow unless it is challenged."

The statement by the RNC's legal counsel (Jennifer Sheehan) WAS in reference to a Delegate's desire to vote for someone other than the winner of the Primary in the NATIONAL Convention. She stated, "The National Convention allows Delegates to vote for the individual of their choice"
There is no need to speculate on "If that is what she meant" or "The RNC won't go for that!"

How much more do you need to be convinced?
Maybe an email from Ms Sheehan to you ... personally?

I'll leave you with this:

" ... let's all concentrate on taking advantage of this opportunity that, I am certain, God has deliberately put in our path."
We wanted a miracle.
Well, HERE IT IS!
Grab onto it WITH BOTH HANDS and fly!!

"Trust, but verify"
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same."
- Ronald Reagan

TROLL Alert!

This guy is a Romney plant. There have been a lot more of these folks on here lately.

GoodSamaritan's picture

Spreading Disinfo

I think you need to go out in a blaze of glory. For being in the DP only 2 hours and 14 minutes, you sure have managed to spread a lot of negativity and disinformation.

Let's see, we have a standing 1964 ruling by the RNC regarding Rule 38 clearly stating that delegates at the national convention are free to vote their preferences. We have an RNC legal opinion from 2008 that essentially reiterates that decision. And, we have a lengthy FairVote.org analysis that reaches the same conclusion.

But you're trying to convince us otherwise and seem surprised that some in here consider you to be a Romney plant.

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

New delegate map

Came across
This map showing delegate count on front porch politics
http://frontporchpolitics.com/2012/05/look-whos-scheming-to-...
Shows romney with 587 Paul 148 Unknown or unbound 247
Santorum 226 and newt 126 map colors a bit bias with three colors if blue makes it hard to see all Paul's wins
Also article on Rnc unbounding delegates. Hope it's of help
GO RON PAUL u will ve our next president

Drvab

what idiot Rmoney hack

said Santorum and Gingrich delegates could be bound to Romney.....ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Here is the answer for you - NO.

That my friend is impossible, unless Romney pulled a Ron Paul with ground force and won them.

Of course it's possible if

Of course it's possible if the state party rules say so. I don't know the Oklahoma state party rules with regard to the delegates of candidates who drop out and release them. Though they haven't been release yet and probably won't be until the national convention.

The reality is, that in a

The reality is, that in a free society, no one can dictate how or for whom you vote, reagrdless of the circumstances. So all this hoopla of bound and unbound is a mute point. When you step in the booth and close the curtain, it is YOUR vote.

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

no because

no because national party rules say they can't.

National Party rules strictly forbid State Party Orgs from in any way changing the process of delegate selection that is outlined by the national rules.

See Nevada Ron Paul convention, they would not even unbind thier delegates because the National said they could be booted from the convention. Big no no.

That is not what was

That is not what was discussed yesterday at our meet up and our local GOP liaison (28 yrs. experience in the GOP and RP convert) was telling all of us what I just wrote. So, if he's wrong and I am wrong and you are wrong, then, it seems none of really KNOWS squat...we just think we do.

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

Sorry, but I just don't think

Sorry, but I just don't think that's true.

The RNC made things quite clear in '08.

To me anyway, Ben Swann's assessment is the best. Let's hope this is the case. After all why even have delegates if they are 'bound' to a party
contingency?

In Liberty

delegates can't be bound that would be considered an election

Primaries and Caucus are not elections, they nominate, they are straw polls with no force.

The only elections that can be held are general elections held by the state.

A party does not even have to have a caucus or primary to nominate a candidate .

National elegates from every state (all fifty)......

Are not bound on the first round and can vote for anyone they please even if thar individual candidate/nominee is not on the ballot! This was stated per the legal council for the National RNC in the year 2010. Look it up. This is in fact the bottom line. Each National Delegate is considered a "Free Agent" and can vote as they please and for whom they please.

Sorry, but I just don't think

Sorry, but I just don't think that's true.

You don't think it's true......

Research it and you will discover that what I'm saying is absolutely true. Please do not speculate but find out for sure.

Of course they can be bound,

Of course they can be bound, read the state party and national party rules.

Everything you said

is totally correct. The delegates bound to Gingrich and Santorum are still bound to them however because neither has released their delegates, and they probably won't do so until the convention. We DID however win in Oklahoma, because these delegates will NOT vote for Romney. When the convention boils down to a 1v1, any delegate not voting for Romney is basically a vote for Paul.

All this BS about Rule 38 is from people only reading part of the rules. States bind their delegates to move up the GOP primary calendar and the RNC HAS threatened to not seat delegates that are unbound after the primaries are held. This is why the delegates were not bound in many earlier states. This doesn't prevent us from abstaining at the convention, preventing Romney from reaching the 1144 is our largest goal. As soon as that 2nd and 3rd round delegates are allowed to switch over, we win. It's important we have the alternates to the convention so they can't just replace the delegates who abstain.

Be real guys, the RNC knows what we're doing and will try everything to stop us. We have to work within the rules THEY set and to be honest, we're doing a good job of it.

that's correct

There is no one way things certainly will work out.

EVERY convention has this.

Just like the Tea Party Express wasn't actually endorsing Ron Paul...rather using Ron Paul's ability to draw a crowd so as to push for their own agenda.

Nothing wrong with that.

Just as there is nothing wrong with Ron Paul doing whatever he can to steer clear of RNC and Romney obstruction.

He can't know what the other side will do, he just can be certain none of it will be fair.

Thank you for backing me up

Thank you for backing me up here. I disagree with you that the Gingrich and Santorum delegates will vote for Ron however, I think they will fall in line with Romney. The Rule 38 thing really seems like grasping at straws in desperation to me. The abstaining thing is legitimate it seems, but I doubt we will have enough delegates on our side for that to even matter. Also, getting to a second round of votes (which by my calculations is very unlikely) doesn't guarantee us a victory like so many people seem to think. I am trying to get the real cold hard facts out there about Oklahoma in this particular instance and most people on here insult me. There is a reason there is are negative stereotypes for RP supporters, sometimes it's true.

your not very smart

No the delegates aren't bound. Tonight they swept all delegates. Yes
they can vote for who they want. They can vote there conscious. They might break there state rule, but they aren't breaking GOP rule. They could be kicked out of the GOP in there state. That is the worse that can happen. The problem at the GOP convention is if they disqualify a person. The next person that steps in will be a Ron Paul supporter. They lose either way.

It should be mandatory to use proper spelling

when calling someone else dumb or an idiot. Pot meet kettle?

*You're

*You're

Don't worry about it

The people here who have slammed you exist here and only here.

They don't actually do anything for Ron Paul's campaign.

They are, in other words, nothing to concern yourself with and in fact, quite the nothings in all ways.