-5 votes

Why I can never Support Rand Paul

I mean, Rand has said some things over the years that made me cringe and made me wonder how he could be the son of my hero, Ron.

He latest statements just made it worse. First he goes on Cavuto the other day and says his father will never win. Thanks, Rand, we need that type of statement from you.

I think he is pandering to the right. Just came off too insensitive. I'm not even gay, but who cares who gets married..

Way too much pandering to the right for me.. Why is he using religion to advance his political career?

http://news.yahoo.com/rand-paul-says-didnt-think-obamas-view...

If you vote this down explain yourself...

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I didnt down vote, but...

1. Rand didn't say his father would never win.
2. Rand was actually out there promoting Ron at that speech where the gay marriage joke was made, if you listen to the whole clip. It's a good speech actually.
3. If people here really believe Rand is being paid by Romney and is an establishment plant, I'm not sure why you even trust Ron either. Maybe Ron is an establishment plant himself, if you are going to be that paranoid.
4. The media lies over and over again, trying to smear and direct public opinion about Ron, and they do the same to Rand too, when they print articles like this. This should be obvious.
5. Ron and Rand are different people.
6. Rand's position on gay marriage actually has not changed, and nowhere did he advocate passing any legislation to ban gay marriage, or having the federal government regulate it.
7. Both Ron and Rand are personally socially conservative. That's why not all libertarians (see Reason mag, etc) like either of them, and why there is a divide on this. To understand why, you have to understand the history of the libertarian movement.
8. I think this is an attack on Ron Paul, once again using Rand, because social conservatives and Santorum supporters are actually coming our way a bit. This takes power away from the neocon elite if this happens.
9. Rand probably said it as a hit back at Obama, as Obama's announcement was more of an attack on Ron than on Romney. Obama attacked Ron's exact position. Obama wants the youth vote back. It also kinda hit Romney, if you take it in context of what he said about not being hateful.
10. This doesn't really help Romney, but it did help Ron with the social con base. The social cons don't really like Romney, but they have been warming up to us lately and they like Rand. This is important.

let the rombots beleive that

it will make is easier for us to take over the convention, party and goverment of this country without them knowing. Gay marriage wouldn't be an issue under a ron or rand paul flat tax because people would be paying the same rate.

Mr. Middleton, I downvoted your thread for two reasons...

1. The use of the term "religious nut." The Liberty Movement includes a mix of religious and non-religious supporters; "religious nut" is unhelpful, in that it is inflammatory and divisive.

2. You malign Rand Paul's motives when you accuse him of "pandering" and of "using religion to advance his political career." Could it be that maybe he really does believe the things he was saying in his speech? Criticizing conduct is one thing, but one should be cautious and charitable when commenting on what is in a person's mind and heart.

Other than that, I think it is a worthwhile topic to bring up.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

First, I never used religious

First, I never used religious nut, so I am not sure what you are referring to.

Second, it doesn't matter if he BELIEVES what eh says or not. Using religion to advance political goals on SOCIAL issues is not cool in my book. You NEVER hear Ron Paul do that.

What's ironic is someone else posted the same thing and gets 18 votes up and this gets 6 votes down.. oh the irony here..

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

Mr. Middleton:

1. The third paragraph of your thread post contains the phrase, "religious nut."

2. It is OK if you don't agree with him basing his social issue stands on religious values; what I objected to was the implication that he was insincere in doing so.

In your thread post, you requested that downvoters list the reason for the downvote, so I did; I would not otherwise have singled you out for criticism. If you rework the language of your thread post a little, you might get the thread upvoted into positive territory. Sometimes, tone and word choice make a big difference in how well one's writing is received. As it is, this is something that DP'ers clearly want to talk about, given the number of posts.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

You are right. I forgot I

You are right. I forgot I used it, but it was merely to infer he was pandering. Maybe he believes what eh says, only he knows. I agree with some of the others. that it is probably not big on his agenda, but it was used more to pander to the right. Ron never panders which is why he is my political hero.

I agree on the tone, but I was just so annoyed with this because i KNEW it was gonna reflect bad on his dad, from people who don't know any different or think they have same beliefs...

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

Does it really reflect bad on

Does it really reflect bad on Ron though? Social liberals who are falling for Obama's stunt don't seem to like Rand much in the first place, in my experience. Not after that Maddow interview and his closer ties to the tea party. I don't know many liberals who like Rand. But Rand actually says in that speech that they shouldnt be hateful, and that they don't have to be hateful and use violence to promote their viewpoint. That's kinda a knock at Romney and the bully thing, to be honest. That's the first thing I thought, he was gently telling them not to support violence and people who strongarm their view.

I don't know if you are aware...

... but you can still edit your thread post (there should be an "edit" tab at the top). Thanks.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

Mitt Romney's secret weapon: RAND PAUL

Despite all of our hard work for the cause of liberty, Rand will come in and snuff it out with hateful comment. Now the youth will be discouraged, the neo-cons will feel victorious, and liberty will feel lost. Somewhere Satan is laughing and Rand is scratching his back.

"sometimes I hug the coffee table when no one is looking."

OK, let me get this straight.

OK, let me get this straight. 'Gay' is a good word, but 'gayer' is a bad word?

Thomas Jefferson 1796, 1800, 1804; James Madison 1808, 1812; Ron Paul 1988, 2008, 2012; Rand Paul 2016.

For my part, I object to Rand's use of the term "gayer"...

... because, in that context, it implied that perhaps President Obama is gay, and I regard that as an unwarranted smear of someone who seems to be a good husband and father. I also think that contemporary American political discourse is needlessly nasty and personal, and comments like that add fuel to the fire.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

Why do you need a book

to tell you how or what to think, its open to interpretation...look at the catholics, the witnesses, the mormons, they all have a different take on what is written. For me it couldnt be any simpler than what Jesus supposedly said and what I feel naturally in my hearyt: LOVE YOUR FELLOW HUMAN. If two people want to be together than who should stop them if they are not hurting anyone, all these licenses are bull and is what gets in the way of self regulation. The "emotional plague of Man is the real enemy, its an enemy from within all of us!
LOVE = tolerance, understanding, forgiveness, acceptance.
Rand is playing you all like a fiddle, his tongue and cheek remarks are sure making you think. He is a great senator and has had the benefit of being reared by one of the greatest thinkers of our time, im pretty sure something has rubbed off.

"Freedomless, Will work for Liberty"

It seems to me that both father and son occupy...

... the place on the political spectrum where conservatism and libertarianism meet (what I would call Constitutional conservatism - Rep. Justin Amash is another example). This is why they are Republicans and not Democrats. Their view reflects my own political leaning so, of course, I am good with it.

I sense that some of Ron Paul's supporters are "straight libertarian" or even a libertarian/liberal mix (for example, the "Blue Republicans" - Gary Johnson also seems to be positioning himself here). Because Ron emphasizes his libertarianism more than his conservatism, we all coexist supporting Ron. Rand, however, emphasizes his conservatism more than his dad does, so he sometimes loses the support of the less conservative portion of Ron's supporters. Rand gains support that his dad does not get, however, from those who are less libertarian and more conservative, and it remains to be seen which base of support is more likely to get one elected as President. I do think that Rand's base fits better within the GOP, which will make it easier for him to become the GOP nominee for President.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

So what if you dont agree with someone 100%

So what if you dont agree with someone 100%, That is the party mentality. You either agree with me or dont. I dont agree with Rand on some of the comments he made, but he has done wonderful things for liberty and speaks his own mind and that makes his lightyears better than anyone currently in the senate.

Heres a question for you guys

Realistically in 2016 are you going to vote for Neocon Scott Brown or Rick Santorum?

We have so much momentum and you are willing to throw it away because you dont see someone 100%? Good riddance.

I know Rand isnt perfect but he can advance the cause of LIBERTY and thats all you should care about.

Now enough of this senseless arguing.

For liberty!

No...I don't even agree with Ron Paul 100%

But personally, I can not support ANYONE with neoconservative foreign policy leanings. Preventing WWIII and the deaths of billions is simply too important to me.

"Truth is an absolute defense to the charge of paranoia."

Are you kidding me....

Scott Brown?!?

How is he better than Santorum?

"Truth is an absolute defense to the charge of paranoia."

CNN NEWS : TELL US WHAT YOU THINK

CNN just ran a piece showing a video of Rand Paul giving a speech in which he refers to Obama's policy as "couldn't be gayer".

CNN finished the piece with "Tell Us What you Think. Are the comments from Rand Paul son of Ron Paul a Republican candidate inappropriate and homophobic or simply just funny. The republicans in the audience did (hear laughter from the audience).

We are like the mechanism of a watch: each part is essential.

BTW...

I agree with Rand on gay marriage. Get the feds out of it.

I say, uphold Biblical standards wherever/whenever you can. If you lose the fight, move, if you must.

"Truth is an absolute defense to the charge of paranoia."

Lead by example

We must always lead by example, and only use voluntary means to achieve the change we want to see.

Coercion is the enemy of Liberty.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

dumb

the good cannot be the enemy of the perfect

No man is perfect.

The self-seeking and ambitious are rarely friends of freedom, in the end.

Look, you can trust Rand if you like, just don't ask those who don't to ride along.

"Truth is an absolute defense to the charge of paranoia."

Perhaps you could clue me in

Perhaps you could clue me in to which senators you find to be more trustworthy than Rand? I've asked this question to some others on this thread but haven't gotten any responses. I'm trying to understand the logic of this viewpoint, not trying to tell you who to trust. Thanks.

There is not a single sitting U.S. Senator...

...that I would work for.

Rand is the best of the bunch, yes.

Aha...that's how BAD things are down there.

"Truth is an absolute defense to the charge of paranoia."

Freedom unites people.

Remember?

Stop making posts that divide us.

THAT is what we don't need.

Focus on what we agree on - not what we disagree on. Simple and effective.

Peace.

I smell Neo-Cons...

The fact that this thread already has 10 downvotes tells me that either A). The "R3V0JUTION" is being infiltrated by Neo-Cons (just like the "tea party") or B). A lot of so-called "freedom lovers" haven't the slightest clue where their rights come from.

Either way, Rand is wrong. I will not support him or stand with those who do. If Rand is the future of our movement, count me out.

"sometimes I hug the coffee table when no one is looking."

RIGHT ON!

I will NOT be forced to support ANY NEOCON ever. I don't care if he has the last name "Paul."

Rand is only half the man his father is.

For the Republic and Its Creator,

Steve Martin
Host, The Aroostook Watchmen Radio Show
780 AM in Monticello, 1700 AM in Lewiston, 88.1 FM in Westbrook, 88.1 FM in Orono, 96.5 FM in Brewer, 96.5 FM in Bangor, Maine.
mepatriot@juno.com
207-532-3635
AroostookWatchmen.com

"Truth is an absolute defense to the charge of paranoia."

Who knows what the future

Who knows what the future will be? If you don't stand with those that support Rand then you must be either among the wrong group of people, or perhaps you hold some misconceptions about his views. My bet is with the latter. Which senators do you prefer to Rand?

Don't reject the very good in

Don't reject the very good in search of the perfect.

You know, I was just

You know, I was just commenting to someone earlier about how America, in terms of debt, deficits and the loss of liberties is heading toward a brick wall at 100 mph and all the politicians and the MSM can talk about is gay marriage. Well I'll be damned if you guys aren't just as bad. Who, with all of our other problems at hand, really gives a rip snortin' sh t about gay marriage. I mean, what percentage of the population is gay? 1 or 2 maybe? For Christ's sake, folks, remember the FED, the debt, the TSA, NDAA, the drug war, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran? I don't give a damn about gays or who they marry. But if they think they've been wronged by the federal government, they need to get in line with about 300 million other people. First things first. Pardon me if I don't weep hard enough for the latest victim en vogue. If we can get our country back from the banks, the rest will be a breeze.

A good reminder of all the

A good reminder of all the victims of tyranny strewn across the world.