209 votes

Freedom to what end? Leave the guys at Mitt Romney Central alone.

I just unpublished a thread, by a DPer called "chabotjo." The thread, which received a net positive 8 votes (only one vote against) reads, in its entirety:

Banned At Romney Chat After 1 Comment! Wooo Hooo!

I wrote, "I have been a Romney supporter for a long time, but him not being able to manage the delegat process is certainly raising my eyebrow."

When I tried to post again. Banned. LOL What turd burglers. Just needed to say that!

Retrospectively, I sort of wish I had said, "EAT IT BRAINWASHED DRONES, YOU'RE DONE. OKLAHOMA HAS JUST BEEN REVOLUTIONIZED!"

To all the people who voted for this, and all the people who think this is funny, I am ashamed of you. It is this type of behavior that gives all Ron Paul supporters a bad name (including me) and makes me ashamed to know that this is what the Daily Paul is used for.

So a Paultard posted a lie ("I have been a Romney supporter for a long time"), complete with typo (delegat? wat is dat?) and subsequently got banned from Mitt Romney Central. Can someone tell me what there is about that to celebrate? (I'm a Paultard! Wooo Hooo!) Subsequent comments talk about using tor or hidemyass to change your IP and get back on.

Really? Is that the best you can do? Is that how you represent Ron Paul? Is that how you represent the cause of Liberty? Is that how you represent the community at the Daily Paul?

I've been watching this go on for a while now, and I don't like it one bit. I've been hoping it would die down without my having to say anything, but apparently Sheriff Nystrom has to break out his badge every once in a while and swagger around like I own this place. (I do.)

So if you want to continue on in your useless fun, that is your choice. (In fact worse such behavior is worse than useless, because you give a net negative impression of the Ron Paul community.) If you choose to hurt Ron Paul by displaying your blatant disrespect for the cause of Liberty, that is also your choice.

But if you want to come back here on the Daily Paul and snicker about it, that is not your choice. I will ban you just as quick as they do on Mitt Romney Central. (Ok, maybe not as quick. I'm famous for giving people second, third and eleventh chances, but recently my patience is wearing thin).

Just know this: The Daily Paul is the top independent Ron Paul community on the internet for a reason: I ban the Paultards.

Please think about what we are fighting for. Many would say freedom. But freedom to what end? Freedom to go and harass Mitt Romney supporters for no other reason than cheap kicks?

Please stop to consider that the substrate of Liberty is tolerance. In order to live in a free society you have to be tolerant of behaviors you may find personally odious. The recent article about Romney's bullying a classmate in high school demonstrates what happens in a world without tolerance.

John Lauber, a soft-spoken new student one year behind Romney, was perpetually teased for his nonconformity and presumed homosexuality. Now he was walking around the all-boys school with bleached-blond hair that draped over one eye, and Romney wasn’t having it.

“He can’t look like that. That’s wrong. Just look at him!” Romney is quoted as saying.

Really Romney? He can't look like that?

Actually, in a free society, you can look however you want, and you can do so free of harassement. But not so in Romney's world. Romney took matters into his own hands. With his posse, he pinned the boy with the funny hair down and forcibly cut his hair.

Paultards, don't be like Romney. Leave the guys at Mitt Romney Central alone. They're not hurting anyone. They're just like John Lauber, going about their business. You think they're misguided? Guess what - they think you're just as misguided. We're truly at loggerheads. We're not going to convince them of anything, any more than they could possibly convince us of anything. The best we can do is hold ourselves up as the finest examples of the cause of Liberty as we possibly can.

If in doubt, look to Ron Paul as an example of how to behave. He is always kind, always respectful, always generous, and always gives his opponents the benefit of the doubt. Look at how far that sweetness of attitude has gotten him, and how successful he has been at promoting the cause of Liberty. Why use opposite behaviors to jeopardize everything he has worked so hard for?

FURTHERMORE this kind of behavior only invites blowback to the Daily Paul. Think you're the only one who knows about tor? Or Hide My Ass? Think again. They can easily use those tools against the Daily Paul. And if they do, guess who has to deal with it? Not you friend. No, never you, Mr. anonymous-screen-name.

And at some point, when the Daily Paul is overrun with Romneybots and RNCbots and other such trolls, escalating into denial of service attacks. Do you think it will be funny then? Blowback is not just for the CIA.

Freedom. Think about it. Freedom is important, but freedom to what end? In early 21st Century America, in the days of waning freedom, please don't squander what little of it you have left.

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Use the Golden Rule

Yes! Ron sets the standard here. Be firm, radical, uncompromising but also civil and honest. Treat people like you'd want them to treat you. If Ron had taken another course, we probably would have never heard of him. It is the only practical route.

We need to set the example.

Thanks Nystrom!

Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks."

well said good Sir!

well said good Sir!

Liberty = Responsibility

lets go to the central and tell them they won!

..they can stay home while we take the delegates. ^^

Robin Koerner's picture

Thanks, Michael

I like how you "get it".

Thanks for your work and applying your principles without fear or favor.

If I may, http://www.dailypaul.com/222679/love-and-sales-how-to-win-su...

The best liberty-promoters are humble and non-aggressive in words and deeds...

Thank you!

IMO most "Paultards" are not Ron Paul supporters at all, but trolls pretending to support Ron Paul so they can paint us with a negative brush. While 'they' *may* truly be presenting their own views and personality, certainly they do not represent the majority of Ron Paul supporters.

Wise words. Thank you, Michael

Many of us may post on other sites (news and opinion alike), I have. Most of the posts by real Paul supporters stick to the issues of qualifications, records in office, or national issues and are generally reasoned and well thought out. (or at least stick to the issues and avoid personal attacks or rants). This is as it should be, we have the Constitutional high-ground, and for most of us, the moral high ground as well.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Totally agree with Nystrom.

Totally agree with Nystrom. Not into others business, nor to I like to rub things in peoples faces. Let's just celebrate the spreading of truth and if people don't like to listen or educate themselves then leave them to their on ignorance. Keep the focus people. Leave the negativity for the trolls. We are the tortoise in this race and we are catching up to the hare. Keep the focus and avoid the distractions.

tasmlab's picture

And, it's not that interesting

I've lurked on the mittromneycentral chat (never posted myself, Michael - don't ban me), and generally I've found:

- Not many people on it
- Lots of general interest conversation, like what people are doing for lunch

Not much talk about the role of govt in society or monetary theory or things that we find interesting over here.

Also, they wholesale reject that there are any similarities between Romney and Obama. The Paultard making this point sounds like they are saying the night is day and that ice is fire.

Currently consuming: Harry Browne, Free Domain Radio; JT Gatto and Holt; Wii U

Paul Tard?

i dont like the terminology, quit trying to censor people and just give advice, Liberty is Liberty so quit being a tyrant

I beg to differ.

Liberty without responsibilty is anarchy.

Liberty with responsibilty is true freedom.

And besides

This is private property. ;-)

Michael Nystrom's fists can punch through FUD.

Well said Michael!

Well said Michael!

First off, I don't consider Romney the real enemy

Going to any website supporting him is an absolute waste of time. We all know Romney will not become President, the real enemy is the organization or organizations who are foisting this illusion of the freedom of choice upon us. Romney appears to be just the clown lackey they have chosen to ensure Obama is reelected. The whole Presidential electoral process is suspect by the last two GOP Presidential candidates favored by the system. Call me a conspiracy theorist but it is looking more and more like a deal has been either made by or forced upon the leadership of the two parties, if they are really two separate parties, to ensure the outcome of at least three Presidential elections. I absolutely love being part of the monkey wrench being tossed into this unholy machine that threatens their plans.

If not us than who?

If you go there, at least politely invite them to find out more

As a former Santorum supporter, once I became disillusioned with that candidate, I revived my former interest of homesteading/survivalism. In the Survivalism podcasts, I discovered that many in that community were supporting Ron Paul. That made me decide to take a second look at Ron Paul, which led me here.

Why did I come here first? Because back when there were Ron Paul supporters coming daily to the chat at We Pick Rick, one of them politely invited us to come here. I was very surprised at what I saw when I came over here, because by far my main exposure to Ron Paul supporters at We Pick Rick had been foul-mouthed pornographic talk, or people treating us like religious zealouts with IQ's in the double-digits, or trolls making comments about how much they wanted to kill non-believers, bomb Iran, etc. So after being sworn at, scandalized, condescended to, and insulted by Ron Paul supporters, I was pleasantly surprised to find out how reasonable most of the people were over here.

But my main point is that among all that trolling, there were two or three people who spoke to us on We Pick Rick as human beings and who treated us with respect. One of those was the person who invited us over here. In fact, on the day Rick suspended, one Ron Paul supporter posted a reasonable article over there (quickly deleted) about why it made sense for Santorum supporters to come over to the Ron Paul side. So if you are going to venture into Romney land, plant seeds of truth and welcoming, rather than insults and vulgarity. That may actually further your cause rather than turn people off to ever hearing Ron Paul's actual message.

Welcome and thanks....

.... for filling us in on your story. I totally agree. Before I press the "Post Comment" or Enter button I re-read what I wrote through the eyes, mind and heart of Ron Paul. If what I write can cause harm to the liberty movement and to decades of pureness of good will that Ron Paul has spent decades trying to foster then I rewrite it until it meets that standard.
We should all think ourselves to be filling the roll of educators and guides within this maze of obfuscation and deceptions. A poorly chosen word or slight is not something Ron Paul would express. We all should know that our opposition loves to have us attack like fire ants when they bait us with snide remarks. Ignore them! Or say: "God still loves you" and move on to a more receptive and thoughtful commenter.
As you point out Mom, the vast majority of Paul supporters are great people but can't always keep out the seedier personalities that insist on being vinegar when we need to be applying honey.
NO Ron Paul supporter should lower themselves more than one or two notches below Ron himself! We should all ask ourselves if our comments will spread good will or confirm the things said about "those Ron Paul supporters"! The truth is difficult enough to have a person face. We don't need to build the steel reinforced wall higher, we need it dismantled by opening whatever cracks we can find in the armor of the innocent and duped. Stand tall and speak the truth with as much care as you would show your child when teaching him to ride a bike or swim.

O U R P L A N = R O N P U A L (Coinsidence? I think not.)

Thanks Mom,

Thank you for coming over to learn the truth despite some people's poor choice of words. We have a big fight on our hands as it is with the establishment with out making more unnecessary enemies. The old gop is as crooked as a barrel of snakes and they lie, cheat and steal at every turn with the "media" being bought off decades ago and the Police by and large yes men for the establishment. We need all the help we can get to save the United States ..

"Politics ought to be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free men."

Dwight D. Eisenhower

Well done

My Mom is a member too! Lol.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Thanks Michael

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

Is there an echo in here?

That quote of Franklin's looks familiar. ;)
It is very thought provoking.

One of my faves that is a bit more poetic and touches on this same subject of...personal responsibility (?) is by Paine:

"Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise."

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

If men were angels, no

If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. ~ James Madison, Federalist 51

The mere fact that a college graduate can graduate a near socialist is testament to why government should never have a thing to do with education. The clearly demonstrated fact that the average american cannot focus their brainpower long enough to "see" the wisdom and thoughtfulness of Hamilton, Madison and Jay is a harsh indictment of our "institutions of learning"!

To truly know and understand and be able to eloquently argue the whys and what-fores of our republican form of government one must spend time reading deeply these commentaries. A good online source: http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa51.htm
and/or
http://constitution.org/c5/index.php

O U R P L A N = R O N P U A L (Coinsidence? I think not.)

I just read that!

And this, which I think applies in some way to your observation considering how popular the socialist theory has become with our latest generations of indoctrinates.

In Federalist 49 Madison writes in lines 30-35: "If it be true that all governments rest on opinion, it is no less true that the strength of opinion in each individual and its practical influence on his conduct depend much on the number which he supposes to have entertained the same opinion. The reason of man, like man himself, is timid and cautious when left alone, and acquires firmness and confidence in proportion to the number with which it is associated. When the examples which fortify opinion are ancient as well as numerous, they are known to have a double effect. In a nation of philosophers, this consideration ought to be disregarded. A reverence for the laws would be sufficiently inculcated by the voice of an enlightened reason. But a nation of philosophers is as little to be expected as the philosophical race of kings wished for by Plato."

The general point of strength in numbers accounts for much of the sad state of affairs in our nations philosophical understanding. Also, that we lack to a great extent real contemplation of the role of government was a casualty of thought even in Madison's day. I wonder how much of the intellectual ineptness of those in our countries formative years could account to the fact that many were solely pursuing their daily survival and the well being of their family. Today, we have no such excuse. What time deserves spent on rightly assessing and reforming our government is instead spent idly on vain pursuits that profit neither the mind, spirit or flesh. A quote comes to mind whose author I believe was a President sometime in this last century. "Love of soft living will destroy this country". I am paraphrasing.

Thank you for the excellent link. It at first glance seems superior to any of the others I have added to my constitutional/liberty bookmarks folder. I am sure it will yield much benefit in my pursuits of knowledge.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

Great Minds Think Alike

Ah, I see it now. All I can say is, it's a truth that bears repeating! I do like your other quote, too. That imagery... I can SEE it.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

Great minds do think alike!

I was thinking exactly that.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

I am fairly new...

...and I can totally understand what you are saying! Personally, I cannot stand all the Rand bashing that's been going on lately. As a parent, I would call that going a little below the belt for this site. Paul is literally laying down his life(and a very relaxing retirement) for all of us on here and some are biting his own flesh & blood. I understand if people disagree on a few things and understand that liberty is what it's all about. However, I believe there should be wisdom in liberty. And like I said, as a parent my claws would come out if I read some of these comments about my child when the site is supposed to be promoting a cause I was leading...that's just me. "I support Ron, but his son is a jerk"...REALLY!!?? Ron has said more than once that liberty is fine if your not hurting anyone. Hurt can be more than physical. Don't they know it hurts Ron to hear such things from his own supporters? For the most part though...it is an excellent and positive site...THANK YOU!!

Tolerance promoting

and banning Paultards (which is a good thing). Paultards tend to be intolerant so the two go hand and hand. We love you Michael.

May the LORD bless you and keep you
May the LORD make His face shed light upon you and be gracious unto you
May the LORD lift up His face unto you and give you peace
Follow me on Twitter @ http://twitter.com/Burning_Sirius

Ron Burgundy Said it Best

Stay Classy Daily Paul!

Arguing with the Romney Central people

Arguing with the Romney Central people will be about as productive as trying to argue with members of the Westboro Baptist Church.

Noted. Moving on.

Being new to the DP and internet forums I have to admit I was lured into the "paultard" persuasion rather easily. The one time I did log onto RomCent was late at night and I was there with one lady who only wanted to talk of idle subjects unrelated to anything useful. Having failed to log out the moderator there quickly recognized my late night visit and booted me out the next day. It was the best thing that could have happened to me. I easily could have spent many hours accomplishing nothing for liberty had I not been banned.

I don't know what the draw is in trolling at RomCen and I admit that I fall prey to it and the threads posted here regarding the exploits of such "paultards". This post shall certainly cause me to be more careful as to not fall into that category of people.

I do know that I have learned a lot here at the DP about civility and being aware of the fact that behind the screen names, no matter how goofy some of them are (I am talking about you Velveeta Underground) are real people whose lives are going to be influenced by others they come in contact with.

The people here have moved me to become more involved and informed that I may be more useful in fighting a battle that has a very important cause.

To those who are still trolling the Romney sites, I have just a few questions for you.
Are you on slate as precinct a delegate?
Are you attending your conventions and learning how the process works?
Are you educating your self about liberty and it's rich history of great thinkers and writers?

The time at RomCen is much better spent at other sites such as www.learnliberty.org or any of the many sites that help a person understand the Constitution. Instead of badgering some one at RomCen who has their mind all made up, you could be reading some great literature at www.mise.org or any one of Ron Paul's books. Point is, trolling anywhere is a total waste of time. At the least we could be encouraging those in need here rather than berating someone who already holds us in low esteem.

Michael, your post nailed me to the wall and left me blushing like a little girl who just wet the bed. And for that, I thank you.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

There would be one bit of value in going to their forums/site.

Namely to gather information on how they think. Please don't be dismissive of this because once you know how your opposition thinks, you can then develop polite counter arguements for when you interact with them in person and otherwise.

Perhaps.

But as you say, only a bit.

I know, for the most part how the opposition thinks as I was only recently recovered from a decade long
"Limbaughtomy". Thank you, Dr. Paul, for the "free" cure.

As someone who voted for several neo-cons I can tell you, honestly, that the average member of the opposition isn't thinking much more than "bah, bah, baaaah, bah". Any deviation from that thought process is very disturbing for them and hostility is the natural reaction even in the face of sound argument.

Often, not always, but often, these folks have to come to their senses themselves.

Liberty has a way of subverting the mind by pulling at the heart strings. That is where it must start, I believe. In the heart. Only then will the mind remain calm enough by reason of curiosity to entertain ideas and that counter it's own. Prior to this happening, you may subtly provoke thought at best. Any outright objection to their opinions, no matter how polite, will normally be met with adversity.

Don't get me wrong. By all means stand your ground. Just make sure you aren't doing it in someone else's backyard.

In short, they have to want it. We should be preparing ourselves through reading and study in order to be ready to quench their thirsty minds with ever springing waters of freedom.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

Romney chat

Hey! I remember you, man! lol. I posted on the DP about going to Romney Central to talk with the Romney supporters. I'm sorry to hear you were booted. You said you were booted for being idle? Being booted for being idle, now that's funny.

Now to Michael's post and your comment. I'm fine talking with people to help them understand freedom and Ron Paul. I'd encourage you and anyone else to talk with people about learning freedom, wherever you and they are located. Of course, behave yourself. I find it unsettling that Michael colored his post in condemnation of a person who goes to Romney chat is committing a wrong.

I haven't gone to Romney chat because of what I've heard about it, that when its moderators are surveying the chat room they boot anyone who doesn't rah-rah Romney. Also I haven't been there because the computer I use usually can't support chat programs. I have read on the DP that some RPers made inroads to Romney supporters there.

CRinMI, you said there are many things to do to support Ron Paul and freedom. You're right. To each his own. Make it to the best of your ability.

To the person who goes where he does to educate, I applaud you. I encourage you to continue your giving and receiving words to educate yourself and the person(s) you talk with. To anyone discouraging communication because of what you imagine, shame on you.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton F. Dutton

Michael Nystrom's picture

Agreed

To the person who goes where he does to educate, I applaud you. I encourage you to continue your giving and receiving words to educate yourself and the person(s) you talk with. To anyone discouraging communication because of what you imagine, shame on you.

I agree. Continuing education is essential. And to that end, I think it would be nice, after all, to open a line of communication with the Romney Central guys.

After all, it is to me, and I'm sure to others, a complete mystery why anyone would support Romney. And I say that in all sincerity and truth.

But our tendency, as humans, is to demonize others. I believe this poster thinks I'm demonizing the guy who posted the original thread that I took down. And in that point, I have to admit, he is correct.

Such is human nature, and we are all subject to it. Like an unwritten program, that is what we do unconsciously - demonize others. The granularity of demonization seems to be infinite. We do it within our own movement! Sh!t. That's a problem!

Thanks for pointing that out ABBA! This one is for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tyYHdvT-Ks

- - - - -

Imagine that you’re lazily floating along a river in your boat. It’s a peaceful day, and you’re leaning back, watching the clouds dance in a blue sky and are lulled into a meditative state by the easy flow of the boat on the water and songs of the birds in the trees on the shore. Then, abruptly, another boat bangs into yours, jarring you out of your reverie. Your immediate assumption is that the person guiding the other boat has intentionally hit yours, and you descend into anger and turn to defend yourself, and possibly retaliate.
Turning, you see that it’s an empty boat that has come unmoored and, quite by accident, run into yours.
The teaching behind this story is that empty boats are everywhere. The lying, cheating business associate that screwed you in a deal, the ex-wife with the bull-dog attorney, the driver who cuts you off in traffic- they’re all empty boats. With the proper, Buddhist, state of mind, you should be able to view all these distractions with a detached sense of equanimity and be able to choose to respond from an empathetic, aware place - as opposed to an immediate angry response.

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

Right On, Michael, My Man

Michael, great reply. Yeah, sometimes aggressive reaction does come easily. In me, I've noticed it does when I'm attacked. Even then, I try to check myself from behaving aggressively. I like to think most times I catch and prevent myself from doing it. However, sometimes I don't notice I'm about to do it or, depending on circumstances, I let myself do it.

I say "depending on circumstances" because my view on life is fair is fair, a value judgement, a subjective assessment. When I say subjective, I mean the person as a subject, an actor, as opposed to an object, something acted on and cannot act back, cannot re-act. I give that description so you know where I'm coming from on this issue, fairness. Of course there is another understanding of the subject-object relationship, that there is an actor in both positions. Maybe there are other understandings too.

If there are more understandings of that relationship, all that's needed to know them is communication. That's the beauty of words, a language, often a precursor to the language physical movement. I say, let the words out. Let them out in a way that keeps their sender and their receiver on the bridge that is the comprehension of the self where it is in relation to the other self. If there's a bridge, harmony. If confusion, there's no bridge.

Michael, you the owner of this website, are a very good manager. You manage it very well. Part of that management is what you say and what you don't say.

Take your reply to my comment, for instance. That a manager replies to a comment for him or concerns him is good: It shows he's human, a being who deals in fairness. It's typical for managers to have little interaction with the people using what they, the managers, are managing when there are many people. There are reasons for whatever amount of interaction there is, but despite those reasons and based on that interaction, inevitably one of two environments forms in what's being managed: fear, seclusion and destruction or confidence, openness and growth.

How you replied to me, that you notified me of an error you made, a self made error, a self defeat in a way, is a trait relatively few people produce, perform. You did. You performed that trait. That trait, Michael, is a, or maybe the, trait that separates the successful manager and the unsuccessful manager, the person who has successful relationships and the person who has unsuccessful relationships.

Michael, thank you for the medley and the moral. (Even though my name isn't meant to reference the band, I like those guys. :P)

And, Michael:

Thank you for the relationship that is the Daily Paul.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton F. Dutton

Excellent points Sheriff!

I especially like, "Please stop to consider that the substrate of Liberty is tolerance". Self regulation in these trying times is becoming a vanishing way of life. There are reasons that can provoke anyone of us at any time into doing something we may regret and some often do. Liberty preaches tolerance and it does not get any simpler than that as a basic tenet for me to live by.

"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him."
Thomas Jefferson

"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book." Groucho Marx

mama always said

actions speak louder than words
or in a more modern anachronistic offering

no more hold em down gay hair cuts -YA'LL !

I Have To Admit I Tried To Debate At Mitt Central And...

discussed with others. Once or twice several weeks ago. I got one or two comments in for being banned and I will argue that I was not disrespectful. I wanted to debate those people and maybe make some good points about why they should support Paul instead. I have been accused of being unintelligent, but I am not a Paultard - I am a Ronulan! Thanks for posting this and I will not visit Mitt Central again. I have the Daily Paul set up as my home page. One camplaint for the Daily Paul is that the chip-ins, bombs, etc. shouldn't get buried in posts - front page all the time - or until officially ended. Thanks for all you do.

The principles and not the man.

I would put forth even Ron Paul would advocate debating the principles behind the U.S. Constitution as opposed to why Ron Paul is the best choice for President is the best tactic. Once you can get them to understand the principles then it won't matter as they will be someone who would seek after a representative/Presidental candidate that best fits the principles they uphold.

The main battle, as if I really have to say it, is a battle between fear and principles. It is quite scary to many to simply rely on principles as opposed to an oppressive government. We need to help people to fearlessly take hold of the principles that made this nation.

I agree.

I don't think we should support it and there are waaaay better ways to support the cause of liberty, IF they even want to help.

________________________________________
my Ron Paul video collection:

www.youtube.com/austria4ronpaul
(4 years RP, over 2300 videos)

I am probably going to get flak for this but..

In all honesty the population at Mitt Central have decided , with the help of their TV, that all "paulbots" are potheads.

So this argument of "well let us be reasonable with these people so we can win them over" will not work. They do not want to be won over, they want to be on the winning team.

So, if you troll, or if you do not troll, you are still in their eyes a pot smoking Israel hating satanic person.

That being said, this is the internet, the place where people can be incredible ridiculous, and get away with it.

Yes, in a public forum, and a real life setting, we should be civil with these people and open ourselves to debate, because situations where we are together (like conventions) matter. On the internet, it does not matter, it is a box with text, you can turn it off at any time.

These people cry and complain "we don't take the paul people seriously because they are mean and blah blah" that is a cop out argument. They know full well they cannot beat us logically on any platform, so they resort to any attack they can against us, usually the typical, "they are potheads durr".

So no, being nice to these people is not going to do anything, they have made up their minds.

It matters everywhere.

"Yes, in a public forum, and a real life setting, we should be civil with these people and open ourselves to debate, because situations where we are together (like conventions) matter. On the internet, it does not matter, it is a box with text, you can turn it off at any time."

Don't believe this for a minute. It matters. It matters everywhere. We tell people who do not know about Ron Paul to "google Ron Paul". Internet matters very, very much.

I like how you proved your

I like how you proved your point about opinions on the internet.

This misses the point entirely, yes the internet is a good tool, but it is filled with forums of expression from many interests around the globe.

If you go on the internet, and are easily hurt by different opinions, you need to log off.

Furthermore, googling Ron paul will not pull up a chat box on the mitt romney site. Your counter argument is invalid.

Stop trying to be the moral police. We have enough moral police in real life, we do not need any on the internet.

my post

may have missed 'your' point entirely, but it did not miss mine. This is a discussion. Contributing a point of view is not trying to police anyone's morals.

Yeah your right

there our enemies and we must destroy them, treat them as foul evil they are. use every legality and rule in the system to throw them out. I would prefer to do it that way than a french style revolution triggered by oppressive policy.

Yes...

Because a message box on the internet is equal to attacking or defending against one's so called enemies.

I'll sum it up for you:

The Internet is NOT serious business.

BMWJIM's picture

Michael you have done an exceptional job here at

your baby,My Saving Grace, The Daily Paul. I commend your Patience, Love and Caring. You are a better man than I. You are much like the good doctor. Freedom is, as Freedom does. You own this site but I know your heart is to give everyone a chance to help elect the good doctor. It does not help when others don't seem to understand.

They also don't understand that many of us became family during the last four years between. That is what I don't want to lose. It is the tween years I truly love!

I see this every day in my motorcycle business. It is quite similar.

Jim

1976-1982 USMC, Having my hands in the soil keeps me from soiling my hands on useless politicians.

The best we can do is hold

The best we can do is hold ourselves up as the finest examples of the cause of Liberty as we possibly can.

The reason Ron is such a great leader is because he leads by example! And his example is one of honesty, integrity, and humility!

Thanks.

I hope everybody has a chance to read this crucial information. We should all take care to be more friendly and likable to all others, especially our opponents. This may be the area where we could gain the most benefit by showing some improvement. We need to be better people and rise above such behavior regardless of how we are treated by them. It starts by our examples.

What is most aggrevating to

What is most aggrevating to me is the perceived victory of the nomination. Many are boosting about a strategy to the same people we are using it against! Absolutely ludicrous. Why would you tell your opponent how you plan to defeat it? There is no reason to poke and prod when we are in such a position of vulnerability. I'm getting the feeling I had last election when all things fell apart. Many here do not realize what we are up against, if the convention goes smoothly, we are done.