Arizona Delegates are Fuming, Publicly Demanding Answers from the Ron Paul Campaign
Submitted by JRothschild on Mon, 05/14/2012 - 08:59Doug Wead's blog is inundated with comments from Ron Paul supporters and delegates from Arizona. Read the comments....Not a pretty read.
I hope these issues can be addressed quickly. The main concern is the amount of personal energy and time spent by volunteers vs the lack of support they claim they are receiving from paid staffers.
Interesting read. Let's hope things calm down and these issues are resolved.
Some of the comments:
Chris:
I’m sorry but I’ve long been a supporter, donated as much as I can possibly afford, so please explain to me WHY a Ron Paul campaign person was not at both of these? We throw in tons of money and you guys can’t even show up to these events. Although romney is to blame, you can’t forget to take the blame, Doug, for not being more aware of these things and take steps to solve it. Where is Ron? Why is he not standing up and saying something. Why aren’t you for that matter. We’ve worked to dang hard for you guys not to spend a couple thousand in airplane tickets to make sure SOMEONE was there. You expected people to know what to do, when I bet romney was telling people what to do. See the difference? If you want to win, get your act together, make sure people from the campaign are at EVERY SINGLE STATE CONVENTION, instead of making us figure it out on our own and getting screwed.
Darren:
Correct. I’ve been saying the same for months. I heard some of these campaign guys make 10 grand a month. Where the f-ck is our money going? I’m sick of this. So nice of Doug to weigh in now, and still the information he’s imparting is not clear. The delegates know MUCH more about what happened this weekend. This is so disappointing. They are letting you the courageous delegates bleed without much aid.
Len Snow:
Amen. I’ve supported Dr. Paul since 07, and have yet seen a one commercial in MO. 4 days notice and we give you 2000 people in Kansas City at Union Station. Millions upon millions being donated. For what? just to fly Dr. Paul and his entourage across the country? Where is the leadership here? Why aren’t the Ron Paul managers screaming about the blackout to the press? No money left over to do something on PBS? Why is it ALL up to us? Wheres the guidance? I get more from RonPaulFlix.com than anywhere else. It’s time Ron Pauls handlers cried foul to the GOP.
http://dougwead.wordpress.com/2012/05/14/ron-paul-arizona-up...
WAHOR!
What else can be said? We are the movement and the long term change!
"You will know them by their fruits" Mat 7:15
The majority of your topics and posts, JRothschild, allows us to question your motives and who you stand for. You leave a trail behind you full of discord.
Much can be said of Dr. Paul for what he leaves behind, harmony, which is opposite of yours.
"For Life, For Liberty, and For Freedom, OUR MOVEMENT IS ONE... And We Will Change The Course of History!!"
.
One thing their strategy has done is it has forced us to be more organized locally. We never depended on the actual campaign for anything. But out of this local organizing we have expanded to activism on local races and legislation. I am not sure our local RP people would have been as active as we are now if we depended on some monolith national campaign to do all the work.
One thing I was a little bitter about is the lack of a good speaker at our state convention. They had a weak state senator speak on behalf of Ron Paul and it was not a very inspiring speech.
Stand Up!
I was there and have no complaints about how the campaign handled us. I arrived early, stood in a very long line at the Ron Paul table to register my cell phone, and received texts all day long on votes. Could they have done more? Maybe, but remember this is Romney AZ and the environment here to Ron Paul is very harsh. In my personal opinion, save the money to spend on the big wins in CA and TX. We were fine, we held our own, and we were not pushed around easily. Yes, they had the gavel, but it is/was apparent they were losing control by all the anger I witnessed. I even had one individual, whom I always got along with, tell me - "today, you are the enemy." I smiled a big grin knowing they are on the run.
We had Liberty covered here in AZ; we stood tall, and stood firm. "If you're going to die, die with your boots on. If your going to cry, just move along."
Peace. Ron Paul 20120.
Ditto
I was there too and have no complaints about their preparation. We knew what to do, and we stood our ground and caught blatant election rigging. Its better us than the campaign anyway. Now the state GOP has to deal with real backlash from their own constituents. They can't blame the campaign for what we did or didn't do.
Good on you!
Excellent! You are just the sort of person the good guys need on our team.
My opinion
Is the campaign is focusing on the convention at the moment and having RP go out and speak to thousands of people to keep educating, to keep enthusiasm up and to help draw in new supporters. What is the point of running any more commercials at this stage of the game? I would let Obama spend his millions on attacking Romney, why the RP campaign continues to play out the remainder of the delegate game. As I type this, I see an active forum topic titled "Barack Obama opened a new advertising assault on Mitt Romney's record today".
This movement has been largely fueled and implemented by the grass roots. The creativity, drive and participation by lovers of Liberty is unique and would have cost any other campaign millions upon millions to achieve a fraction of the results that we have all achieved. Some of us only donate to the campaign, some canvass, some sign bomb, some talk to everyone they know about Liberty and Ron Paul, while others become delegates, begin running for elected offices, etc. Collectively we have had an impact over the previous five years is absolutely amazing. This is a true movement in every sense of the word and it will continue long after this election cycle is over. The knowledge being gained and shared with everyone truly makes us all a force for Liberty, now and in the future. Many of us have become truly independent from the campaign, while simultaneously helping the campaign, during this process. These individuals are inspiring to others and are becoming the future leaders of this continued movement. What we are all learning, even though it can be frustrating and painful, will serve us all well in the future.
I have been reading the DP since early 2008 and registered as a user a little over a year ago. The knowledge, confidence and encouragement I gain from this site is immeasurable. Now I just have to continue working on convincing the wife that this site is worth a few bucks each month so that I can become a paid subscriber.
Bless all of you patriots and please remember who the real target of our frustration is.
Let's get this movement ready for the next election.
Time to organize and find leaders who will work with us (not against us).
Common, stop complaining.
Why is it that some people feel that Dr. Ron Paul should hold their hands all the time? Just do it. I'm proud of all the work individuals are doing on their own. The campaign is focusing on other issues at this time. Besides this is suppose to be a grassroots movement to get Dr. Ron Paul elected and go after the delegates, no need for the campaign to get involved all the time.
grant
What
is more important than focusing on winning?? What "other things" are they focusing on??
Well, for one thing...
Ron Paul still has a job to do in Washington. That's important.
We don't need to depend on Ron Paul to lead us through the campaign. All of us suporting Dr Paul believe in freedom, independence, and freedom of speech. We should be out in our communities practicing what we preach, and we don't need the Ron Paul campaign to prod us along.
From my understanding
It seems that there so many rules broken, nobody would have been able to keep up, even if help were sent from the campaign. The reason we have been able to perform so well thus far, is because we don't rely on experts. We are a grassroots organization and because of that, we are an army of mini experts instead of an army of ignorants with one expert in the lead. We are ultimately responsible for our own victory or defeat. If we got defeated, we were simply not prepared enough. That's what it means to be part of a movement that's all about individual responsibility.
Even if RP gets to be president, we can't expect him to do everything alone. The corruption is simply too deep. And relating to our performance in OK or AR, sure there could have been some things they could have done better. But we should have noticed from the very beginning that some things were missing. We should have arranged our own lawyer, our own personnel with parliamentary knowledge. What the campaign was lacking, we should have been there to fill up the gaps.
yes, eternal vigilence
from everyone is what it takes to maintain liberty.
Concern Troll or Eeyore?
Concern trolls are paid operatives whose job is to create dissension, demoralize the base, reduce volunteerism, create pessimism, suppress fundraising, and spread negativity that discourages existing supporters to stay involved and discourages potential supporters to get involved.
Concern Trolls accomplish this by posting content with a simple formula:
1. Open with an "I'm one of us" statement ("I'm Ron Paul's biggest fan, but...")
2. Bring up a bogus, distracting "concern" (I'm concerned about the Delegate Strategy! We can't be the MSM! The Campaign staff sucks!)
3. Declare it's hopeless and that all the "smart people" should throw in the towel ("Shouldn't we consider Gary Johnson?")
4. Cultivate negativity and hopelessness among other Eeyores
As I said, Concern Trolls are paid operatives. Eeyores are just whiny, negative, "glass is half-full" people who do all of the above for free.
JRothschild, if you care about electing Ron Paul you may want to re-evaluate the kind of content you've been posting.
"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid." - Ronald Reagan
Public Relations Consulting
JRatsChild and JayP are working together...
You two are ridiculous using all these old-school AgitProp tactics. Everything Kathleen said is true. To disregard what she said is tacky and only highlights your hidden agenda.
A New Movement? Nullification Starts NOW!
Just say NO to group think
I think your brush is just way too broad. Your formula creates a 'cult of positivity' and borders paranoia IMHO. The formula makes problem solving practically impossible because just discussing perceived problems becomes a thought crime to the group. You can't solve problems if you're ridiculed for even discussing them!
My view is that the campaign does not need this protective layer of YES men to protect against critical analysis of the way things are going. That's just where we are together as a group of people attempting to work together.
I totally agree but it looks like the Kathleen klan rules
When I first decided to post here I expected to get involved with intellectuals concerned about society. Some of you have not disappointed me but the majority of the postings are just plain sad. Kathleen sees herself as a grandwizard having infinite knowledge of each poster's motive for posting. For her my name alone gave it away.
We are like the mechanism of a watch: each part is essential.
That's not nice..
Just because you're a banker doesn't mean you shouldn't have to be bullied around! :)
See what I mean?
Well I guess I should say it's good for a laugh...but then again the Ron Paul movement is a serious matter.
This movement attracts a very wide range of people...and some are far out there in right field bleachers.
We are like the mechanism of a watch: each part is essential.
Yea it is serious
Yea i hear you J. I've experienced this on a bunch of 'movement' type forums. There always is a core clique who take the role of protectors and steer the agenda/discussion. I'm not sure if there is value in it or not. My gut tells me it's pretty weak and it leads to suspicion and cliquey-ness. FYI, I've noticed that here but I couldn't tell you names. For one, I've not been around that long. For two, I try my best not even notice the name if i choose to respond.
Sorry about the joke. You're right, this is serious.
Or just maybe
There are Ron Paul supporters who don't feel the need to defend the campaign management every step of the way because we aren't blinded by bias like the rest.
I love Ron Paul, but maybe it's time to admit that he ISN'T perfect and that he can have lapses in judgement and that maybe, just maybe, he can make a mistake every once in a while. And that goes double for the campaign itself.
Those who feel the need to down vote my post are hypocritical because I know you see the corruption in other things, but when it comes to something as close to home as the campaign, you don't want to admit there are issues with it that shouldn't exist.
Go ahead, call me a troll...I've been here long enough to prove otherwise.
Ron Paul is only human
and he does make mistakes and has errors in judgement like all of us do. That is why I respect him so much, because he is REAL and doesn't try to make everyone think he is perfect.
It is precisely why this movement has been successful, because he has inspired many of us and spawned a movement that was merely fermenting within us all. His bravery under scathing criticism has given so many the confidence to take courageous stands themselves. That is what I believe Ron Paul wanted and that is what will be his enduring legacy, the fight to re-capture and put into play the principles that this country was founded on. It we were to rely only on Ron Paul or only on his campaign, we would not be setup for the continuation of taking back our Liberties. I am not dismissing those who are frustrated, have put in the hard work and time. I am sure when your heart, soul and passion are heavily invested in something and you see it pulled out from you by the establishment, you feel isolated, let down and angry. Please know that many of us are eternally grateful for your dedication and though it may be a battle lost... Liberty, you all, are winning this war!
a few observations
- Local organization is better
- People are frustrated for different reasons
- Campaign is doing things we don't see or is doing nothing
- Lots of upcoming conventions
Solutions:
- Get the local leaders together to educate upcoming states
- Deal with it, talk with each other. Don't start blaming the campaign. If you want to do that, wait for their response. If that takes too long, start blaming them.
- Ask them what they are doing and wait for the answer.
- See first solution
Lovely Paul supporters! Don't start screaming. There is a solution for everything and most of the times it is not provided by central leadership ;) Good luck and try to enjoy the fact that you gave m
hell and beat them withbtheir rules (AZ according to wead and OK according to everybody else ;))
Have fun!
Dutch Ron Paul blog: http://www.paulitiek.nl | Paul Campaign Google Maps: share the victories with your Friends! http://g.co/maps/rcw2y
complaints
the campaign is there to do what ron paul needs to do. it is not there to babysit you. how many times has rp said the way to the white house is delegates. he has said many times that he is being blacked out, you are just not listening. he does not need to scream, cry and stamp his feet to get the point across. you want the campaign to waste hard earned dollars to send people out to pat you on the back? if romney won the states was it because of dirty tricks or your not having the knowledge to stop him. you get your training from your district, county and state co-ordinators, not from the campaign people. that is where you win, not from the campaign. you are acting like the campaign is your personal lap dog. if you want your candidate to win, do your job. know what to do when the opposition tries to run over you. if you lose at least you know you did everything you could to win.
ducky
im not asking for a babysitter
Im asking them to do more in Texas.
im not asking for a babysitter
Im asking them to do more in Texas.
Monday morning quarterbacks
Shoulda, oughta, woulda... Is the campaign perfect? No. Would the situation have gone better if an "official" from the campaign was present? No way to know. There aren't any other Constitutional Republicans running. YOU are the campaign. There is no "higher authority" to appeal to. It's you. Big thanks to everyone who did what they could to carry the day in AZ.
you all suck
im over this web site,thanks for screwing it up for me
freedom420
One of the comments to that blog stated
that the campaign was in AZ and was quite helpful. According to the commenter, there were so many problems, all over the place, all at once, that it was nearly impossible to keep up. I think that the fact that there was any victory at all in AZ shows that someone was doing the job. I watched some of the stream and it was painful to witness.
Some of the things we want the campaign to do are illegal, due to requirements of separation between paid staff and certain activities. Yes, we want more contact, but I do see references to official campaign input to the delegate FB pages here in TX.
I have been highly frustrated over what I believe is rampant election theft in the primaries and the near impossibility to prove it. This new information from Ben Swann about the RNC ruling regarding binding of delegates is the game changer. The campaign can now quit spending money on commercials for primaries where they are just going to steal the votes, anyway. So many people want Ron to quit playing a rigged game and just go third party. This is sort of the same thing. They have stolen the voting process? Fine, we'll use the votes (in the conventions) where they're counted one-by-one, in front of God and everyone. We should still canvass for votes because that's how our people enter the convention stream (staying afterwards to be a county/district delegate) but as for thousands of votes that just get flipped? Forget it. The campaign can't do that part for us. We have to do it. As for the convention, this is untilled ground for everyone. I'm not sure they have access to anyone who has experience to send to us. This is stuff that we learn from as it happens. The YT videos and live streams, together with reports on here are all the training anyone needs. We've re-shaped the game, using the rules in place and it's a method that's serving us well.
All the grass roots experience gained would probably not have grown, had there been a professional, establishment style machine to do everything for us. They would just ignore us into oblivion and it would be like every other election that got us nowhere.
Do we need this right now?
Listen to me now and hear me later. There is not one complaint that does not have a right to be addressed, the problem I have is not doing this right now. We have plenty of time to evaluate what is going on now in the future. Why don't we wait until after the visit down to Tampa before we start shooting at our own guys? I think that we will find a lot of things that we could have done better but it does not help our cause to air our dirty laundry right now.
This is a growing organization that will not do everything correctly, and like the fan in the stands, it is always easier to second guess some of the coach's calls but what is being lost here is what we are doing right, we are waking up our fellow citizens which to be quite frank with you is priceless.
We don't know that Dr. Paul has not already addressed these issues behind close doors but if he hasn't, it's because he is putting in 28 hours a day in a 24 hour day. Can the campaign do better? Sure, any campaign can do better but they do what they can so lets give them a helping hand instead of a slap in the face.
Anyone who is in the Ron Paul movement realizes that this movement will only be successful at the grassroots level. This campaign will not be won by Dr. Paul but will be won by the people. It is the people who will change this thing not the campaign workers or Dr. Paul. He is our voice to some extent but it will not be until the people are outraged and stand up for freedom that Dr. Paul can do anything.
We must fill that gap at these conventions and caucuses not Dr. Paul. We must take them over and dominate them when we show up not Dr. Paul or his workers. You say you have donated and I applaud you for these positive things that you have done for "your family and you" not Dr. Paul. He is doing what he can do, let us not negate the fact that we can do much more also.
We need to be more proactive in this new movement and take up leadership roles that are all in front of us. No one is going to give us this power, we must stand up and take it from these crooks and give it back to our fellow citizens.
Please avoid peeing in our clean water and use more thought before coming on here and second guessing the campaign. They are important but we are all more important in the equation. It will be us who change things not Dr. Paul or his campaign workers.