1 vote

Adam Kokesh on Bitcoin

Wow, reading this interview I got pleasantly surprised by how intelligent Adam actually is.

Read for yourselves:

[full interview]-> http://bitcoinmagazine.net/adam-kokesh-on-bitcoin-and-free-m...

Do you see a lot of strength and advantage to Bitcoin being a free market currency?

Absolutely. It’s huge that it has that advantage.

A lot of people who look at the problem of free market money versus government fiat currency turn to the obvious answer of having the commodity-backed currency that was actually the predecessor to fiat currency of some kind and we like to condemn the current government system with the Federal Reserve and the U.S. dollar because of its backless nature because there’s nothing backing it except for the promise of the government that they will basically steal from future generations to pay for the debts that we are accumulating with it currently. Whereas Bitcoin kind of throws a lot of people like us for a loop and we go “Wait, wait, wait a second! It’s just another fiat currency, right?” because there’s nothing backing it. And while that’s true, the fact that it’s not backed by the promise of theft gives it a huge, huge, huge advantage over government fiat currency.

So, if you’re going to have a currency that’s not backed by something because it’s more effective or more efficient, what Bitcoin has done is found a way to make a viable currency that’s also not backed by a commodity but also, unlike the Federal Reserve system, not backed by the threat of force and the threat of violence. So that’s very exciting and that’s a huge thing that sets it apart. Whether or not that’s the future, I don’t know.

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advantages of using bitcoin

it's not subject to inflation by any central authority. the unit of bitcoins that will ever be produced is 2 million. it won't be possible to generate more than that because the formula simply doesn't allow it; you can audit the code yourself as it is open. so when you acquire bitcoins, you agree to just this condition. you can mine and generate your own bitcoins yourself if you're willing to invest the resources, or you can just buy them from someone else.

it can be backed up on a thumbdrive in case there's an unforeseen event and you happen to lose them - can you do that with gold?

with the advances in technology, memory devices have gotten smaller and their storage capacities have increased, so bitcoins can be easily hidden... you don't need a vault - gold on the other hand has been confiscated countless times.

transactions are electronic, fast, and convenient - not the case with gold unless you're willing to entrust your assets to a third party.

it's infinitely divisible - it's not practical to walk around with a few grams of gold for the purpose of exchange.

gov't snoops can't know what you do with them, the transactions occur directly person-to-person just like with cash.

bitcoins can't be counterfeited. neither can gold, but a person with an untrained eye can easily be duped.

these are just the few properties that people find desirable. i think it meets the standards of a free market currency, and there's a thriving agorist economy to show for it.

Bitcoin is a pump and dump

Bitcoin is a pump and dump scheme.

Read for yourself and decide.

I read it. Somewhat misleading

I read the article and it is misleading in some areas.

"Bitcoin is a pump and dump scheme" - Completely False.
"Bitcoin is prone to be pumped and dumped" - Absolutely true.
Over the long run, Bitcoin will be more and more "pump and dump" proof.

The really neat thing about Bitcoin, is there are two ways to get your hands on them. You can become a bitcoin miner or you can buy them. This makes it extremely easy to see if bitcoin prices are overvalued or undervalued. Right now, Bitcoin prices are still reasonably fair in price, but I do see another pump and dump starting to form. Bitcoin is worth getting into! Just start with a small percentage of your capital while you learn more about it over the next year or two.

“I’m fully diversified. I’ve got some under the mattress, some under the floor boards, some in the backyard.”

by that reasoning, the people

by that reasoning, people that decide gold should be used as currency are also pump and dump scammers, because obviously they would have the largest reserve out of everyone.

gold is intrinsically valuable

bitcoin isn't.

no it isn't

value is not and objective thing. it depends on both the object and the subject.

carl menger is a good read on this if you are interested.

the only value it has

the only value it has comes from the fact that it's a scarce resource and it can be worn as jewelry... who cares if bitcoins can't be worn around your neck. the industrial applications for gold has only been discovered recently, which isn't sufficient evidence to claim it has intrinsic value, as it has been used as currency for centuries before.

interesting that bitcoin

mimics that scarcity and even calls bitcoin generation mining isn't it? That's because it's trying to recreate gold in a virtual sense i.e. limited supply and scarcity. Gold isn't perfect but it's naturally occuring with high demand throughout history and doesn't require an internet connection.

Nothing against bitcoin but I think of it as more of an experiment. At the moment there's way too many amateurs setting up banks/exchanges and far too many security issues. Very clever invention though.

I'm hesitant for that reason

Playground example: Pokemon cards are THE playground currency. Everyone wants them and are willing to trade stuff for them. Then one day yu-gi-oh cards come out and now everyone wants those. You can trade once valuable pokemon cards 10 to 1 for a yu-gi-oh card.

1000 slap bracelets = 100 pogs = 30 tamagotchis = 10 pokemon cards = 1 yugioh card.

Precious Metals are commodity. Intrinsic value. If one day everyone decides that they don't want gold anymore, and wont trade it, you can still melt yours down for a circuit board, jewelry, a weapon or whatever. With bitcoin, they may be valuable now, but if one day everyone decides that they don't want them, then they just take up space on your hard drive.

That being said, I'll probably get some, wait for the value to rise a little, then dump em. Free money from the next sucker.

My issue...

I don't mind it trying to compete, but I would never use it. I'm not going to trust some company with the ability to create currency or be ethical any more that I would trust the Fed - probably less so. I would also have concerns about counterfeiting bitcoins and security of them - I don't believe they came up with some hack-proof system.

No one has the power to arbitrarily create new bitcoins

The reason there is so much hype about bitcoin is because no company has the ability to inflate it. The design of the system keeps the inflation low, eventually reaching zero. There can be a maximum of 21 million bitcoins. This is a mathematical fact, not something that depends on the promise of any individual or group of individuals. If bitcoins are lost they cannot be recovered, so if you had 5 of them on your storage device and they are lost then the maximum number of bitcoins there could ever be would be 21 million - 5.

Bitcoins themselves cannot be counterfeit. They cannot be double spent. But if someone gets a copy of your bitcoins and transfers them to another party before you do then you lose and it can't be recovered. Since no truly secure operating systems, browsers, email client, etc exist loss through hacking is always a possibility.

Two things:

Two things:
1) Bitcoin is an open source program, not a company, no one owns it, no one controls it

2) if someone has the technology to hack Bitcoin they have the technology to hack online banking, military and government secrets because Bitcoin uses the same grade of encryption as those

Learn more about it here:

Understanding Bitcoin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTFiDeeBpm8
channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/bitcoincurve/videos

Free Competition in Currency Act of 2011

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.1098:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr1098
https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/honest-money/background
http://www.downsizedc.org/blog/why-honest-money-is-the-best-...

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Free Competition in Currency Act of 2011'.
SEC. 2. REPEAL OF LEGAL TENDER LAWS.
(a) In General- Section 5103 of title 31, United States Code (relating to legal tender), is hereby repealed.
(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for subchapter I of chapter 51 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking the item relating to section 5103 and inserting the following new item:
`5103. [Repealed].'.
SEC. 3. NO TAX ON CERTAIN COINS AND BULLION.
(a) In General- Notwithstanding any other provision of law--
(1) no tax may be imposed on (or with respect to the sale, exchange, or other disposition of) any coin, medal, token, or gold, silver, platinum, palladium, or rhodium bullion, whether issued by a State, the United States, a foreign government, or any other person; and
(2) no State may assess any tax or fee on any currency, or any other monetary instrument, which is used in the transaction of interstate commerce or commerce with a foreign country, and which is subject to the enjoyment of legal tender status under article I, section 10 of the United States Constitution.
(b) Effective Date- This section shall take effect on December 31, 2011, but shall not apply to taxes or fees imposed before such date.
SEC. 4. REPEAL OF SUPERFLUOUS SECTIONS.
(a) In General- Title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking sections 486 (relating to uttering coins of gold, silver, or other metal) and 489 (making or possessing likeness of coins).
(b) Conforming Amendment to Table of Sections- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 25 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking the items relating to the sections stricken by subsection (a).
(c) Special Rule Concerning Retroactive Effect- Any prosecution under the sections stricken by subsection (a) shall abate upon the taking effect of this section. Any previous conviction under those sections shall be null and void.

Whoa, blast from the past

One of my friends had been talking about Adam Kokesh a few years ago. I knew he had lost the Republican primary and then that Republican lost by 14 points in the general election, but I didn't know it was by an 4 to 1 margin. Many Republicans were very much against Kokesh and called him a traitor despite being a war veteran , so he was pretty much going it alone there.

I was unaware his radio show, on Russia Today, was cancelled after a year on the air.

As for the bitcoin bit, I hadn't heard much noise on the issue for a year or two. It's an interesting concept.

Yeah Adam is brilliant and selfless

He is obviously the heir to the RP throne.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

Sadly,

This makes me question Kokesh even more.

"If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks], which has its origin in North America, should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will hav

Wow bitcoins just got a hell

Wow bitcoins just got a hell of a lot more convenient to get: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83209.0

Cash deposit at 700.000 location in the world you got to admit is pretty impressive!

Why do they call it...

a "cash deposit" when it is a purchase of bitcoins?

Also, this will make the value of bitcoin rise dramatically. The faster bitcoin is sold the faster the bitcoin price will go up. Then we're back to pump and dump because people don't trust currencies that react like that.

They want stability. Lenders want the price stable because borrowers won't borrow when the price is rapidly going lower. Borrowers want the price stable because lenders don't like to lend when the price is going rapidly higher.

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

It says cash deposit because

It says cash deposit because that's the method you can use to get USD to BitInstant, i.e. you make a cash deposit at one of the available locations.

bitcoin spammer strikes again

.

You wouldn't attack me like

You wouldn't attack me like this if you had enough integrity and intellectual honesty to research and understand Bitcoin and the Bitcoin ecosystem and realized just how big of deal this news is.

Man..

you take this WAY too personally. :\

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

"backed by..."

What is meant by "backed by"? What is a gold coin backed by?

It is backed by your belief that many people will continue to value it in the future. That's it.

Gold is only a commodity because many people value it -- and people's decision to value something can change at any time.

This whole "backed by a commodity" is nonsense.

Fiat currency does have a backing -- many people place value on it and believe in it. This can change.

Same with gold and same with bitcoin.

People value consumer goods...

and consumer goods are not commodities.

You said:

"Gold is only a commodity because many people value it" -- BZZZT!! wrong answer :D

Commodities need to be in some unfinished state ready to be used in making consumer goods.

**Menger said currency was not really a commodity...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

value

Capitalists value commodities (gold ore), and consumers value consumer goods (gold coins & jewelry).

The point is that the value comes from people's minds, not from any intrinsic magical power contained inside the element Au.

Gary North wrote an article about this here -
http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-fallacy-of-quot...

I didn't say...

"people value things at $1/unit of consumer goods".

I said, "people value consumer goods" (or "people assign values individually to goods")

A commodity is a useful thing that can be used to make finished consumer goods. (menger)(not a quote)

The assignment of a particular value by an individual is irrelevant to this point. Just the fact that a value was assigned.

I was delineating "commodity" from "consumer good" and that both are assigned values by consumers and manufacturers (individually).

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Gold does not only hold

Gold does not only hold intrinsic value. It also has MANY industrial uses. Therefore it has inherent value because it is a useful necessary commodity and it is scarce. It gains more because of it's intrinsic value but there is great demand because of it's many uses outside of jewelery. Likewise water has value but it is so minute compared to gold because it is very abundant. The difference with bitcoin is that at some point the scarcity factor can be removed and devalued just has the fiat money has. Commodities like Gold and Oil can not be created therefore you can't completely remove the scarcity factor.

Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto. - T. Jefferson rЭVO˩ution

"Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state wants to live at the expense of everyone.” - BASTIAT

Value is subjective

There is no such thing as "instrinsic value". Value is subjective. This is the basic cornerstone of Austrian economics.

What would gold be worth in dollars if people valued gold only for its industrial use? Very little.

The reason gold is worth $1,500 dollars/oz. is because many people view it as money. This is because gold possesses the properties of portability, divisibility, durability, fungibility, etc.

Fiat currency has collapsed in the past and more of it will collapse in the future. The same thing can happen to gold or bitcoin if most people cease to value it. This can happen if a new source of money comes along and people value that and stop valuing gold or silver or bitcoin. There is no way to predict this.

My point is that there is no such thing as intrinsic value and money is never "backed" by anything except people's beliefs (even if those beliefs are forced onto us like the dollar is via the legal tender laws).

Ron Paul is 100% correct when he says to legalize competing currencies.

Use Value...

Gold has intrinsic "use value" (see menger).

Gold has intrinsic physical properties that make it useful in the real world outside any use as money:

"Gold has been a valuable and highly sought-after precious metal for coinage, jewelry, and other arts since long before the beginning of recorded history."

People just like the look and feel of gold. Makes them happy. Always has. :)

Gold has a myriad of critical applications in instrumentation, electronics, aerospace, medicine, and on and on.

If bitcoins are not used as money, then what "use value" do they have?

There IS a fundamental and metaphysical difference between bitcoin and commodities (things that are valued outside their use as money).

Menger was a HARDCORE Aristotilean philosophical OBJECTIVIST who used methodoligical subjectivism to explain that it is the individual's action and not the collective action that was key to understanding the value of a good.

Gold is useful outside any use as money because of its intrinsic physical properties. Bitcoin is not useful in any way outside use as money. And never will be...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

How is gold's intrinsic

How is gold's intrinsic "use-value" any different from Bitcoin's intrinsic "use-value"?