17 votes

If even Ben Swann is perplexed by Benton...

Why can't we be?

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What does that even mean? You

What does that even mean? You seem to be under the impression that Ben Swann is in some way superior or more knowledgeable on the situation than any of us. He clearly is not. He is a man in a $22,000 a year job with ZERO expertise on any of this. And he likely won't even have THAT job in a few months.

He'll have a job..

because he isn't owned by your zionist friends.

They that give up liberty for security deserve neither.

benton knows damn well ron paul

is a serious factor leading up to tampa, everyone needs to just chill out we got this....im going to make a shirt that said "Chill...We have the delegates"

There's a saying "Pride

There's a saying

"Pride goeth before the fall"

Never over estimate yourself without all the facts or data. Cockiness causes complacency and let's our guard down.

We have Delegates, but far from 'got this'.

Friend to Minarchists, AnCaps, Voluntaryists, Agorists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, Paul Supporters, Free Marketeers, Jeffersonians, Status Quo Buckers, and Ron Paul Fans.

Pax Libertas. Semper Veritas. Semper Res Publica.

You don't know that

You don't know that we have "the" delegates (implying "the" delegates to win).

We have some delegates. At least 120. Maybe 200. Maybe 300. Maybe even will have 500. But 1140? You think we have 1140? Really?


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

See this

See this thread:

http://www.dailypaul.com/233933/doug-wead-radio-interview-fr...

In it, Doug Wead claims towel was thrown ON THE DAY Santorum quit. I can't believe what crap I'm hearing from all these campaign people.

They should all have been kicked out. I think the grassroots alone is capable of getting President Paul elected from here on out.

Immoral funding of Military Industrial Complex by Federal Reserve and US taxation system must stop!!!! End illegal/unconstitutional wars! Preserve US currency!
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So..you are going to get Ron

So..you are going to get Ron Paul elected against his own wishes? (And yes...everything that Doug Wead and Jesse Benton has said has been AUTHORIZED by Ron Paul.)

Ron Paul will NOT accept a nomination if it will mean a humiliating loss in November.

He is desperately trying to make you idiots realize that you WILL be replaced by alternates...WITHIN THE RULES...so you don't waste your time and money going to Tamp for nothing. If you get replaced, you don't get to vote on ANYTHING.

You've been a member of DP less than an hour.

Just to be insulting. Hmmm ....

Did you listen to the whole interview??

Bingo, Rick Santorum is the key to what is happening to us right now. For some reason, since Ricky suspended the campaign, the convention can NO LONGER be brokered. Why? I hope someone can put some light on this issue because maybe Santorum is turning the delegates he won over to Romney. I don't think he can forcefully make them vote for Romney but this means something very important to the Ron Paul campaign.

I advise that EVERYONE listen to the entire Wead interview. During this interview Wead gave me the answers to some questions that I could not figure out the rational for. Wead was one of the advisors to Bush Sr and Bust Jr plus 5 other Presidents or Presidential candidates. He tells of things that he saw and heard first hand which will explain alot of what is happening to our country right now. The amazing thing about the interview is how Ron Paul changed his outlook on many issues in the same way that Dr Paul gained our admiration and loyality. Wead TRULY believes in Dr Paul and REALLY understands what we as a society have to lose if the Revolution doesn't continue. Before this interview I really disliked Wead but now that I actually allowed myself to listen to him I now understand that he is a man who realizes what a fool he was before he discovered Ron Paul. This interview should be on the front page of Daily Paul for all to see and understand. I was deflated yesterday but I've come back understanding that as Wead said "Things can change in a heartbeat, you never know and also, if someone listening were to give us 20 or 40 million dollars, we would definitely be back at the table rethinking this whole thing"

Dr Paul is still in this race and we need to work harder than ever because we are the only ones that can change the course of this country, we have to because if we don't, we have to look into the eyes of our . children and grandchildren and tell them we are sorry but we didn't work hard enough to save their futures.

Maybe we should let all of the Santorum delegates and supporters know that the powers that be, the RNC and the Romney campaign dupped them, used them and FORCED their candidate to quit to stop Ron Paul from having the ability to fight for THEIR freedom and liberties also, against the elites of this world. The Santorum supporters NOW HAVE A CHOICE, Romney AKA the same as OBAMA OR Ron Paul, END THE ILLEGAL WARS AND BRING OUR TROOPS HOME and take the money from the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX and use that same money to make our country's DEFENSE STRONGER, END THE CORRUPT FEDERAL RESERVE AND THEIR POWERFUL BANK LORDS and bring prosperity back to AMERICA so many other things that he could repeal like the Patriot Act.

The Santorium delegates and supporters want the same things that Ron Paul supporters do, a country in which we have peace and prosperity and our children and grandchildren have the same opportunities to financially and emotionally succeed in a country that respects freedom and liberties and lives by the Constitution that our forefathers fought and died for, for their children and grandchildren.

We still can do this, we just have to work harder and give whatever we can to the campaign for our last and final PUSH FOR AN AMERICA THAT IS FREE OF TYRNNY!!

Nice theory, but Santorum

Nice theory, but Santorum dropped out over a month ago.

Yes, I listened to the entire

Yes, I listened to the entire interview, but still depressed Doug Wead doesn't mention power of grassroots & what immense contribution it has made.

Also, I'm hoping that Romney's candidacy is going to auto-destruct in the near future. He is a candidate even weaker than all of Walter Mondale + Michael Dukakis + Bob Dole + John Kerry + John McCain combined. This is one of the biggest joke that such a plastic puppet it being touted as a candidate. He is so repulsive that I feel this candidate should auto-destruct due to some major gaffe he makes now.

Immoral funding of Military Industrial Complex by Federal Reserve and US taxation system must stop!!!! End illegal/unconstitutional wars! Preserve US currency!
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they desperately needed Santorum to split the primary vote

There was never any time at which the caucus/convention strategy, by itself, had any chance of getting Ron Paul the nomination. The strategy also needed one of two things in order to work:

1. Ron Paul to get a pretty large proportion of the overall popular vote himself, which would give him many bound delegates without having to rely solely on the stealth strategy. If, for example, he was running 5-10% behind the leader in the primaries, he might get slightly fewer delegates bound to him but the caucus/convention strategy could have put him over the top. This strategy would have been an excellent tiebreaker.

2. Some other candidate to split the vote away from the frontrunner and keep both well under the threshold. In that case, Paul could steal delegates from both and ensure that it went to a brokered convention, then have a lot of leverage in the future ballots.

#1 never materialized. The margin between Romney and Paul to this point is 44%-11%. Over the past several weeks, it's been closer to 70%-12%. It's just not mathematically possible to use this strategy to get enough delegates from a frontrunner in a two man race when losing the popular vote by over 50%. There are far too many delegates that are picked by the candidates themselves or by direct election and that don't go through a caucus/convention process. Nearly all of these now are going to Romney. On June 5th, for example, there are 244 delegates up for grabs from CA, SD, and NJ. If Ron Paul loses 70%-10%, the delegate outcome will be 244-0 for Romney, and Romney's campaign chooses who the delegates are. There is zero chance for stealth. If Ron Paul were to lose 45%-40%, though, the delegate outcome might be closer to 175ish to 70ish, a deficit that is much more manageable, and which a strong strategy in other states might be able to overcome. Without competing in primaries, he just gets overwhelmed in a numbers game.

#2 depended on Santorum. Santorum really was having success taking bound delegates from Romney. If he stayed in the race, he could have been more competitive in Pennsylvania, Indiana, North Carolina, and Nebraska. He would probably have been favored in Arkansas and Kentucky. Texas would have been a possibility for him. Romney's march toward 1144 would have been much, much more difficult if he was splitting states with Santorum. There wouldn't have been a complete "Romney is the nominee" narrative yet. Ron Paul could have come in and taken some delegates in various states, which would have kept both of them further from their targets. With Santorum dropping out, it signaled that Romney was going to win the remaining primaries, get many bound delegates, inevitably be well over 1144 bound delegates, get many of the superdelegates and Santorum/Gingrich-supporting delegates to support him at the convention, and have a somewhat easy time getting the nomination in Tampa. All of that goes away if Santorum stays in, and the road for Romney is much tougher. Him dropping out essentially killed Ron Paul's last chance. His supporters can certainly work hard and try to get many delegates in upcoming states, but there's no real path to the nomination for the Paul campaign anymore, and the campaign realizes that. They want to focus their energy to maximize their impact at the convention and to pave the way for future Liberty candidates and for growth of the movement.

I think your analysis is correct, Shazad...

... and to expand on it, I think that, in addition to Sen. Santorum, three other candidates could have potentially been the "co-frontrunner" that Dr. Paul needed. However...

1. Tim Pawlenty got off to a bad start with the awkward walkback of his "Obamney" comment at the first New Hampshire debate last spring (Rep. Bachmann's strong performance at that debate also spelled trouble for Pawlenty). His later third place finish at the Iowa Straw Poll caused him to withdraw from the race, a decision that, in retrospect, was clearly premature, as he very well might have gotten a second look from a GOP electorate that was casting about for a Romney alternative.

2. Rick Perry was coming off back surgery and was clearly not ready for the big stage. His "oops" moment will be remembered as a classic debate blooper.

3. Newt Gingrich nearly overcame his disastrous campaign rollout and years of personal baggage with several sparkling debate performances. His first national surge happened too early, however, for Romney had time to bring him back down to earth with a series of attack ads, ruining Gingrich's Iowa prospects. Gingrich surged again after winning South Carolina, but was hampered by Rick Santorum's decision to stay in the race. (Gingrich would later return the favor by staying in the race to Santorum's detriment, as his continued presence probably cost Santorum victories in both Michigan and Ohio. Following a familiar pattern in a GOP Presidential contest, the Establishment vote coalesced early around Romney, while the "conservative" alternative vote remained fractured until it was too late.)

Dr. Paul's Convention-oriented strategy would have been very conducive to maintaining a "co-frontrunner" structure, as he could have tactically allied himself on a joint slate with the one frontrunner or the other, providing momentum boosts as needed and keeping both of them approximately even with each other and, therefore, short of 1144 delegates.

P.S.: Shazad, I have posted a response to a question you asked me on another thread:

http://www.dailypaul.com/232965/there-will-be-2-sets-of-ok-d...

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand

I bet if you look in Tim Pawlenty's house

you'll see at least a dozen holes in the wall from the times he's punched it after realizing how dumb he was for getting out of the race too early. He didn't generate a lot of excitement but I think that he would have at some point had his turn as the anti-Romney. Even Herman Cain got a chance at that. There are a couple others who could have gotten in the race and really hurt Romney (and thus helped Ron Paul). As much as Romney was helped by a relatively weak Republican field, Ron Paul was hurt.

Gingrich had far too many personal issues to have much of a chance at the nomination, and I was never really that worried about him. Santorum did worry me a lot, though. He was such an awful candidate but he was starting to get traction. If there was a candidate better than Santorum who was able to stay in up to that point, then it would have put Paul in a good spot. As you say, he could have played the conventions really well and gone back and forth between them. When the conventions turned into Paul versus a lone strong frontrunner, then the convention strategy was destined to fail. In the US, we have become very comfortable with picking nominees based on who can win over the voters in the primaries. There was bound to be backlash against a strategy of going to conventions to try to overrule the overwhelming vote of the people. But if Paul was playing kingmaker at various conventions, then he kind of ends up being the story during primary season (and in a good way).

So yeah, he really needed co-frontrunners. As a side note, people here talk about Warren G. Harding more than anyone has talked about him since The Wizard of Oz was in movie theaters. But the only reason Warren Harding had a chance was because there were 12 candidates receiving votes at the convention, because the frontrunner had the modern equivalent of 650 delegates, and because the top two candidates combined had barely more than the necessary number of delegates. Neither candidate's delegates in that convention would budge. Eventually, some of them found an alternative. Ron Paul needed someone to go toe-to-toe with Romney and to split the delegates relatively evenly. If a 3rd or 4th candidate could grab a couple hundred delegates, that would have been good, too. Then he needed them all to stay in to the end, and go for a battle at the convention. It just didn't work out that way this time.

Pawlenty was taken out...

By Field McConnell, David Hawkins and the good folks at AbelDanger.net for his corruption.

"Truth is an absolute defense to the charge of paranoia."

If they threw in the towel

If they threw in the towel way back then, why did they keep running MONEY BOMBS?

Somebody needs to draft a class action suit against these thieves.

Well, we got Ron Paul giving

Well, we got Ron Paul giving great number of rallies using those moneybombs - greatest of them all in UCLA (California). And the moneybombs were useful winning delegates at so many conventions. Granted it was lot of grassroots investment at conventions, but you can't deny moneybombs didn't help there.

So, I don't have anger about moneybombs. I'm upset about use of garbage people like Benton on campaign staff, instead of more reliance on grassroots.

Immoral funding of Military Industrial Complex by Federal Reserve and US taxation system must stop!!!! End illegal/unconstitutional wars! Preserve US currency!
http://facebook.com/NoPropagandaZone
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I don't know much about Wead...

Has he really called GW Bush "A man of integrity?"

Really? When...? When he skipped out on the draft, or when he was doing lines of coke every night in college, or just when he finished off the job of taking out daddy's former business partner in Iraq while killing thousands of innocent people...?

"Truth is an absolute defense to the charge of paranoia."

Agree this denying of reality is counter productive

The campaign gave up by caving on Rule 11 and announcing it wasnt going to try and win any primaries

Sounds like throwing in the towel.

For those that see it other wise, consider the Black Knight
http://www.dailypaul.com/233961/tis-but-a-scratch-a-mere-fle...

Please subscribe to smaulgld.com

.

http://www.dailypaul.com/233859/for-the-real-ron-paul-suppor...

a nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat

"Even Ben Swan"

That's not clear.

I think you mean something along the lines of:

"Ben Swan is perplexed and so are many others."