Why Pay Down Debt ?
Submitted by nomad943 on Wed, 01/09/2008 - 08:03I read this logic from a lot of people here ...
I dont get it ... Help me out.
Why, if you share the common view of our pending financial future, would you pay down debt at this time?
My logic has me thinking it would be wiser to load up on all the credit available and convert it into REAL assets ..
Wouldnt the currencies collapse leave me owing virtualy nothing and still holding the assets?
Opinions?
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HUGE info on Financials & Surviving
1) keep credit cards paid off (you can maintain a very high credit rating - actually even w/o a credit card.
2) if you use credit card, never go above 30% of the credit card limit
3) if you are buying a home, take a 30 yr. mortgage as you are paying off that debt with inflated dollars and so you can have more money today (opposite of what banks and financial planners tell you. Even do an interest only loan, if you feel secure in this decision - all tax deductible!
4) auto insurance and homeowners should be on the same policy with an umbrella policy (contact your carrier to discuss)
5) take $1000 deductible to decrease your auto premiums drastically - How may times, if there is a small accident, do we pay for it ourselves anyway because 'we don't want our premiums to increase" For those who live in fear, put the $ saved in a separate savings account to utilize, if necessary - you'll save hundreds of dollars
6) I got out of the stock market because it is gambling and I don't choose to gamble with my money. Plus, when it goes down, it takes years just to recover from that loss. You never really get ahead, unless you do this for a living.
Invest in your future with assets and privately.
7) buy (large and small) canned food in bulk and store (this is noted in the Bible too) not only for yourself, but so you can help others. Be sure to rotate this stock and put dates on the cans. The more you help others the more you get in return - unintended consequences, so to speak. Also, storing bulk water is good idea (can buy large containers and rotate this also)
I PAID my Estate Engineering advisers for the following information I am providing out of concern for my fellow human beings and supporters of Freedom. For more insight on FINANCES, go to www.leapsystem.com. The things "THEY" the ordinary financial advisers tell you are bogus (to keep you in financial bondage). Read everything there, can also buy the book, 'LEAP, The Key to Financial Success" by Robert Castiglione.
(Lifetime Economic Acceleration Process)
Another GREAT book which dispels the financial myths with which we were trained, taught, and educated is "KILLING SACRED COWS" by Garrett Gunderson and Steve Palmer.
I PROMISE you, that with a little reading, you will reap HUGE rewards on your road to financial freedom, security, and prosperity!
Where will you live?
When you are in debt you are a slave to the debtors.
At a minimum you must own your house, car, and have living expenses for several years in liquid assets / cash.
They will repo your stuff or take you into recievership.
Besides, it is an integrity issue. Borrowing without the plan of repaying is THEFT. Theives and liars never prosper. Subconsciously they know they don't deserve it and end up punishing themselves. This is the road to misery.
True prosperity is being able to look yourself in the mirror.
Be a person of integrity...
I don't think we need to pay
I don't think we need to pay the national debt.
If a law is unconstitutional then it was never a law to begin with.. if the Federal Reserve act is ruled to be unconstitutional then the debt they collected is fraudulent and we need not pay it.
Since "we the people" let
Since "we the people" let these crooks into office, it's our responsibility to 1. remove them
2. replace them
3. regain our sovereignty and pay off our debt
and stop trusting businessman and lawyers running our country
Rich in NH
"Time makes more converts than reason." -Thomas Paine
Learn Liberty: lewrockwell.com/tomwoods.com/mises.org
Get EDUCATED, not AGITATED!
everyone should have a blog: here is mine: www.takebackblog.blogspot.com
THATS VERY TRUE
but it will not benefit the country. i have children to think about what country we will leave them.
To sell a house now...
or later? A lot of people in our neighborhood are trying to sell their houses without much luck. Frankly, because they are trying to sell at the market high prices. They keep them high because like most Americans they think this is temporary and don't see the impending collapse. My husband and I go back in forth on when would be the best time to sell.
How did the cat...
Get so fat?
"I have found an honest man."
Diogenes of Sinope
"I have found an honest man."
Diogenes of Sinope
it is called self implode
Debt has to be paid and the destruction of paper is a very slow process. That is why some call it invisible. But it slowly destroys jobs and income.
Without a job you will have to create more debt to feed the monster.
That is what is happening to debt created companies as Countrywide.
Debt is alive while gold is not. Debt needs to be paid while gold yields no income.
Like holding a rental property (real Asset)
without a tenant (Income)
using debt (mortgage)
Not vey smart.
Congrats
You would be holding tangible assets while the currency collapsed and destroyed the economy. Somehow, I don't think we'd all be better off if that happened. Best to avoid hyperinflation if possible.
And never forget that the government would most definitely change the rules. Your theory is correct on the surface but the implications of a collapsed currency bring with it many variables leading to a hard life indeed.
Hard Life?
Think about the implications ...
I'm not thinking party time. What I am thinking is it might be realy wise to find one's self in a position where they can produce their own food, fuel ect...
As far as the concept of relative value, what value would one place upon those commodities in an actual collapse?
I agree with you
In a collapse, it would be beneficial for you to own these things.
My point is that it would be best if it never came to such a state.
"Everyone carries a part of society on his shoulders; no one is relieved of his share of responsibility by others. And no one can find a safe way out for himself if society is sweeping towards destruction. Therefore, everyone, in his own interests, must thrust himself vigorously into the intellectual battle. None can stand aside with unconcern; the interests of everyone hangs on the results. Whether he chooses or not, every man is drawn into the greatest historical struggle, the decisive battle into which our epoch has plunged us."
– Ludwig von Mises
Everyone talks about "two kinds of debt"...
Good debt and bad debt. But there is no such thing as good debt and bad debt, so the pop-economist mentality must be dropped.
Let's start by breaking it down into those terms though so we have a common point of reference.
Bad debt - Debt used to acquire assets which are guaranteed to depreciate *AT ALL*.
Good debt - Debt used to acquire assets which are guaranteed to appreciate at a greater rate than the interest applied to the debt.
Do you see fallacy of the term "good debt" yet? It should be obvious, if you could guarantee a rate of return, greater than interest acquired, you would have found the holy grail of investing. It does not exist.
In addition, the term investment is a mis-statement in most cases. It is a legalized form of gambling in 99% of the cases.
Even the purchase of gold as an investment is a gamble. Purchasing gold as wealth preservation and hedge against inflation is 100% valid. Gold will always have SOME value. But if you are gambling on it increasing by greater than 10% in order to make cash on margined investment than you are still playing the fools game even if a little more intelligently.
Get out of debt, buy gold and silver and whatever other hard commodity that you like, but to attempt to "invest" by creating "good debt" is a dangerous thing to do at any time, but especially now.
Suppose you buy gold, and The Money Masters (plug) decide that gold is getting too high and so open up supply thereby devalueing your stockpile, what will you pay your debt off with?
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PoL.English.The.Philo...
My take
Debt is a form of leverage, i.e. it multiplies the effect of whatever you invest in. Unless you are sure that the assets you are investing in are going to rise in price (which nobody does), it is too risky to assume debt that you cannot repay if the asset were to drop significantly in value. Furthermore, if this economic situation does behave like the great depression, banks will start calling in their debts to cover themselves from collapse. It could happen at any time so if your assets were valued below the value of your loan at the time of a loan call-in, you'd have to pay in full despite not having the money on hand. That is what bankrupted so many individuals and banks in the 30s. I see this possibility increasing if the yield curve inverts for long enough (currently this is not happening) and if there continues to be a "credit crunch".
I think you just gave me the missing piece of the puzzle ..
I was unaware that banks had any capacity to "call in debt early".
Do they?
If I have a 30 year motgage do I not have 30 years to repay it, period, as per the contract I entered into or did I not read it carefully enough?
If you can't answer that....
You really shouldn't be in the contracts that you are in. The terms of your loan are outlined in the contract that you signed for it. If you don't have time to read the contract, you don't have sufficient desire/need for the loan.
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PoL.English.The.Philo...
Lol ..
I know the feeling.
I guess for me ...
Yeah, I know that there are rules and then I know that there are RULES and those are the things that happen when some powers that be decide to change the rules.
Deep down I know that what I think about all that doesnt mean squat, so mostly I figure, why not keep my sense of humour and play along ...
Just saying ......
So until the rules are changed, as long as we play along, all will go well.
Just as long as we remember, keep our eyes down and dont ask too many questions.
Well maybe its time to start asking some questions.
Yeah, I got a 200 page pile of paper from the bank and paid some real estate attorney to tell me where to sign them ... other than that if my payment gets in on time I figure I am okay as long as the property tax doesnt swamp my abilities.
Also as long as the same powers that be dont decide to invalidate the entire concept of property ownership ...
So the property values go up and down along with the value of the debt the bank is holding and basicaly I dont realy care becuase i get to use the land while the speculators play their games ..
So why pay debt again?
Grumpy this Am??
I know, I feel like someone pissed in my Wheaties too.
yep...
I must admit, I am not in the best of moods... Although, we have MUCH to be optimistic about, and the progress has been wonderful! 6 Months ago, if anyone had said that we would be neck and neck with front runners, I would have thought they were delusional. But I worked then, as I do now, because it is the right thing to do and because the more people we wake up, the better things get.
Just a little disappointed, I'll get over it... lol
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PoL.English.The.Philo...
Someone, please
answer this. My husband and I are discussing selling our house and buying something that we can own (even if that's a trailer) and paying off our debt. Which we have substantial.
Important moral principles are involved
Fiscal bankruptcy and moral bankruptcy go hand in hand. The two cannot be logically separated, except in the case where someone was doing everything right but got blindsided by force majeure (an "act of God"). With that one notable exception, fiscal bankruptcy is preceded by moral bankruptcy, especially when we are talking about an entire society. So, it is extremely important to think in terms of proper morality. Going into debt when it can be avoided is immoral.
Also, as a practical matter, you could end up outfoxing yourself because you can't know precisely the timing of any currency crash, or the degree of any currency crash, and there is even the possibility that things might move in the opposite direction first, and THEN crash. You could get hurt very badly during the phase where things are moving against you.
I have been both a goldbug and a Christian since 1980, and have always been big on emergency preparedness since I live in an area prone to serious earthquakes, so I have had plenty of opportunities to think about and act on matters just like what you are talking about now. Believe me, the absolute best thing that anyone can do to prepare for the possibility of an impending crisis is "get right with God" and strive to live morally, and being as free from debt as possible is a big part of that.
We would not be facing our present crisis if the majority of Americans thought along the lines I just outlined above . . . let's be part of the solution, not part of the problem!
God is the LOVE in the Ron Paul rEVOLution: "Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his lo
Excellent post--we need this info...
This is the kind of info. we need to have going here...
educate
educate
educate
thank u
Good question
If you knew that you would have an income that would keep up with inflation so that you could pay the debs with those inflated dollars your strategy may make sense. But there is a possibility that we could see a period of deflation. During the 29 depression the fed and the banks actually quit lending dollars and allowed the monetary base to decline. The dollar increased in value but there were so few available to the populace that people lost their homes and other assets.
Perhaps others could add to this, others who may have a better handle on current economic conditions and options that the fed and the banks may employ to help the economy, or to disrupt it.
Kent
Pay off debt, and stay out of debt for another reason.
On January 1st, my wife and I wrote the final check to the bank, paying off OUR house 15 years early. Hurray !
First of all, it's the right thing to do, own up to your obligation and pay off your debt. More importantly, being debt free liberates one to be an informed citizen, to spend more time fighting for what matters and getting involved. If ones time and financial commitments are to Ceasar, then one won't have much time to fight Ceasar.
Marx was wrong (about many things) , religion is not the opiate of the masses, consumerism and materialism are. They keep us on the tread mill of paying bills and being in fear of our jobs, with little time to be an actively engaged citizen fighting for the health of the republic. While Americans scurry about adding and then worrying about paying their debt- our leaders continue to acquire more power and take this country towards the abyss. Most Americans in addition to their seemingly pathological ignorance of their governments follies, are to busy scampering on the treadmill to notice.
Our debt problem in this country is a Federal Reserve problem, a politician problem and an American citizen problem. This "housing bubble" is a perfect demonstration of the alignment of this debt-disconnect on all three levels.
My two cents.