11 votes

Correcting the "Ron Paul is Anti Israel" claim

I am a delegate and have been getting close with several other non-paul delegates and politicos in the party. One lady who is very influential in the party stated to me that she "hates romney, but can't vote for Paul because he is anti-israel."

I explained to her that international social welfare doesn't work and that Netanyaho (however its spelled) agrees with Ron Paul's positions. She said she agrees with him, but because of Ron Paul's news letters she can't vote for him because he doesn't personally like Israel.

Please give me suggestions on the best way to convince her that Ron Paul is a good choice. A lot of people in this Republican community like her and we need all the help we can get. We're out numbered here big time.




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Thanks for all the support guys

I think the best way to win her over is to talk to her scripturally. However, the absolute last thing I want is to make her think my belief system is different than hers because she will immediately shut down and work against me on becoming a national delegate.

this is a tight rope i'm walking here.

All these "c"hristians that get so worked up over Israel

I don't know if we can help them see the truth. I have pointed out the scripture that shoots their whole argument in the foot, and they just don't care. I had one local TEA Party lady tell me, " I know what the Bible says and I know what Netanyaho said, and I believe them I just don't agree with it, and they need our help."

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=205844412842547

*May the only ones to touch your junk, be the ones you want to touch your junk.*

This might help...

You'll find that most

of these "pro-Israel" neocons might like to thump their Bibles, but apparently have never read them.Because if they did, they would not have such an ignorant view.

So, unless I can detect some level of synaptic activity there, I just say, "He's running for President of the US. NOT the president of Israel".

It is quite easy to read the Bible and miss the truth.

Most evangelical Christians who support Israel have been blinded by God for His purposes. There are many pastors and teachers in this category so it is not accurate to say that they have never read their Bibles.

There is an entire hermeneutic view based upon selected scriptures that supports the mistaken belief in the Jewish State that many if not most modern evangelical Christians believe is the very word of God.

I do believe however that a frontal attack on these beliefs is not the way to win hearts and minds. It is a deeply rooted idol of the heart and difficult to dislodge. God Himself will do the work in His time and that may be a lot sooner than we think.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

I'm very aware of that view,

and exactly where it came from, and how it was disseminated among the denominations.
And it was ALL via the Zionists such as Rothschild, Untermeyer, Scofield, etc, beginning over a hundred years ago.

Since I live in an area that is overwhelmingly afflicted by that view, I'm reminded nearly every day about how deep the deception runs.

It actually goes back further.

The originator of the futurist premillennialist teaching was a Jesuit priest from Chile. His name was Manuel Diaz Lacunza but he wrote under the nom-de-plume of Rabbi Juan Josafat Ben-Ezra. His major opus was "La venida del Mesías en gloria y majestad" published in 1810-1811.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Lacunza

This was translated into English by the Scottish clergyman Edward Irving and published in 1827 under the title "The Coming of Messiah" .

Irving met with John Nelson Darby one of the leaders of the Plymouth Brethren and the latter was influenced by the teachings of the Scottish clergyman. Darby then developed what we know today as Dispensationalism and this body of teachings was later popularised by Scofield in North America through his eponymous Reference Bible. As you say Scofield was assisted in his efforts by certain Jewish Zionist leaders among them Samuel Untermeyer who clearly saw a benefit in its publication. This was indeed why it was published by the Oxford University Press which would have been an impossibility without these connections.

This being said it has also been the purpose of God to foster this delusion in order to ensure the founding of the Jewish State. This event is not the one most Christians believe it to be since the people we know as Jews are not Jews or israel in God's eyes. However they do count among their number the descendants of those Jews of the first century who rejected the Lord Jesus Christ and with whom God has a score to settle.

There are also many Jews who are descended from the older twin brother of Jacob, Esau or Edom. Among those is the family Rothschild. Esau has always had a claim to the Land of Israel since Jacob obtained title to the Land fraudulently. He has now been given the opportunity to bring forth the Kingdom of God in the Land but does not understand how to do this since he is an unregenerate, covetous man of violence who believes himself to be the Chosen of God. The Rothschild family consider themselves to be Jewish royalty and are seen as such by many of their brethren.

There are other strands of prophecy linked to these events and they will all reach a point of consummation at the destruction of Jerusalem, the Jewish State and the Jewish religion in the very near future. This is the event that must be communicated to Christians who are providing money to send Jews to Israel to their deaths. How this denouement will come to pass is not known precisely but that it will happen is I believe a certainty.

http://gods-kingdom-ministries.org/books/birthright/index.cfm
http://gods-kingdom-ministries.org/coldfusion/booklet.cfm?PI...
http://gods-kingdom-ministries.org/coldfusion/booklet.cfm?PI...

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

That is SO Good!

Ron Paul is my President of the US NOT the president of Israel.

The last good President I had in my life was JFK...now I have Ron Paul. He is already my Preident and shall be always.

fearless brave joyful peaceful loving grateful, compassionate

Is she Jewish or Christian?

If she is Jewish it is an identity allegiance. If she is Christian it is an idol of the heart. Both are deep rooted and difficult to deal with.

If she is a Christian she believes that Ron Paul is anti-Israel because she has been indoctrinated to believe that she has to bless Israel in order to receive a blessing from God. She has been led to believe that this act of blessing must be more than simply letting Israel conduct her own affairs as a sovereign nation. It means that America must ensure the survival of the Jewish State.

This complex being the source of her blind devotion to Israel it is necessary to communicate with her in the language of her devotion, i.e. scripture, to perhaps turn her from her mistaken worship and who knows to even destroy the idol of her heart.

First I would suggest making sure she understands that Dr. Paul is a devoted Christian who lives his faith, he walks the talk. This is why he is against preemptive war which is the antithesis of the just war theory of Christianity. To attack a nation which has never attacked the United States is for him anathema.

Second I would ask if her support of Israel is based upon Genesis 12.3: "I will bless those who bless you, but the one who treats you lightly I must curse, and all the families of the earth will bless one another by your name.”

If the answer is yes then ask her if she believes that the United States must support Israel in order to bless her. The answer will probably be yes.

Then ask her if she has read the first sermon ever given by the apostle Peter in Acts chapter 3 where he specifically tells us what Genesis 12:3 means with regard to blessing the nation of Israel.

Acts 3: "3:25 You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God made with your ancestors, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your descendants all the nations of the earth will be blessed.’ 3:26 God raised up his servant and sent him first to you, to bless you by turning each one of you from your iniquities.”

This means that in order to bless Israel we must act as servants of the Lord Jesus Christ to influence each one of her people to turn from their iniquities and believe the gospel. This means to preach the gospel to them so that they might believe and turn each one from their iniquities back to God.

Therefore the correct action of any believing Christian would be to either go to Israel to preach the gospel or to support any missionary outreach to Israel that is engaged in this endeavour. There is no other way to be faithful to the Lord Jesus Christ with regard to the Jewish State. This is a personal act and responsibility cannot be transferred to the government which is not Christian.

Ron Paul wants America to have good relations with every nation. He does not want to have Americans stripped of their wealth in order to support an expanding empire that is bombing nations into submission and has so far been the cause of at least one million deaths of innocents in the countries it has invaded. Ask your fellow delegate if this is the policy she is supporting. Ask her if she believes it is a Christian policy.

If she is Jewish it would be best to get detailed advice from a Jewish supporter of RP. But perhaps point out that among the most important intellectual influences on Dr. Paul have been Ayn Rand (Jewish) Carl Menger (Jewish) Ludwig von Mises (Jewish) and Murray Rothbard (Jewish).

Murray Rothbard was also the joint publisher of the newsletters she has referred to so perhaps she should be asked to point out these anti-semitic remarks allegedly made in the material he published. I personally know of none but I have heard similar accusations so the rumours are out there.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

I have a few main points I make...

Dr. Paul is not anti-Israel he is actually pro-Israel:
1. Dr. Paul wants to stop the UN from intervening on Israel's right to defend herself
2. Dr. Paul wants to cut all foreign aid to Israel AND her enemies
Dr. Paul: “Stop and consider America’s policy,” the congressman said, “We give $3 billion a year to Israel in loans; and we give $12 billion or more in assistance to Israel’s self-declared enemies. Some of these are countries that say they will drive Israel into the sea.”
3. I tell them the USA is broke and I use the oxygen mask on the plane analogy...We have to secure our own mask then secure the mask of our dependents...If we don't we may all die...I tell them maybe at a later date we can begin to "save the world"
4. I don't want to be the world police anymore and pay 26+% of the UN budget that seems to have focused on Israel disproportionately in my lifetime
5. And if they seem like they can take it or they are a manly type man where ego and pride play in I get a little blunt and say...I'm an American and I care more about Americans dying than I do about Israelis or Palestinians and I try to base my votes in life on that...I've had enough of foreign interests and elites dictating how my government governs this country...and most importantly spends the money we don't have
a quote to remember from Dr. Paul:
My philosophy, like that of the Founding Fathers, is that we should use our resources to protect our nation. Our policies of intervention and manipulation in Iran and Iraq and other places have led to unintended consequences and have not made Israel safer. Many in the Jewish community share my opinion, and it’s vital for both nations that we continue to have an open dialogue.

Bad food, worse weather, please rEVOLution the states so I can bring my family back home!
Rosa Koire for for President!

Here's my personal stock answer

Israel in the bible was a MAN named Jacob, not a country (Genesis 32:28). God renamed Jacob to "Israel" meaning prince among men, not prince of a country.

The followers of God became known as the children of Israel (Jacob) and they are EVERYWHERE today, not in one geographical location.

Followers of God protect each other, not land.

Short but sweet. Hit her with a little Bible 101.

The two most important days in your life are the day you are born...and the day you find out why. -Mark Twain

PS

Mainstream Christianity is a lot like the mainstream media. It's amazing what you find out if you actually pick up and read the book so many people claim to uphold.

The two most important days in your life are the day you are born...and the day you find out why. -Mark Twain

Some ideas

Say, "So it's wrong for government to force you to pay for planned parenthood but right to force others to pay for israel?" Remind her that repeating, "Israel is our friend" doesn't make it so. Ask her who she thinks Revelations 2.9 is referring to as "The synagogue of satan." Read some choice lines from the Jewish Talmud to her, only tell her it's from the quran. Then once she agrees how evil it is, spring it on her that it's the jewish holy book. Show her the youtube video of rachel corrie's mom crying over her daughters death by Israelis that we funded.

I like to explain it like this

Most of the neocons that love Israel also claim to be for the free market system. So I remind them that Israel is one of the biggest social welfare states in the world with a private sector that is nearly non-existant, not only taking in huge amounts of money from us, but also from Germany for WWII reparations. So if we believe that a free market system is best than all of that welfare is really holding the Israeli people back and if we believe in liberty for our own people than shouldnt we want the same for our friend Israel?

Then of course you can recite Dr. Paul's answer on Israeli defense which is that we hold them back by dictating their military policy and that they are more than capable of taking out the threat from Iran without any more assistance than that which we have already given them (which is quite massive, one of the world's largest nuclear arsenals and offensive military equipment decades ahead of anything in the 3rd world islamic nations which would threaten it)

I have one rule of thumb, when it comes to Israel-1sters:

The Blunt Truth.

My de rigueur answer to those traitors?

"IF you're Pro-Israel, then You're ANTI-America!"

But, if you're feeling mischievous and are not exactly concerned with being tactful, cordial or seek to 'convert' or introduce or entice someone to your worldview, then finish them off with:

"Be an America 1ster, or STFU, and GTFO!"

muahahahaha!

Hey, I'd say IF you're gonna be 'nationalistic' and wax empty patriot-poetic, the least one can do, is to be 'nationalistic' toward the one that you're living in! No?

All that should come as simple, common sense 'logic' to all those chickenscheisse neoCON drunk rabbits, but no. Of course not.

In a fair world of course, respect, common sense, and facts would work. But people who say the most moronic kindergarten jingle like "I support Israel!" or "I support the troops!" (as if it's some declaration that automatically will feed you, or help you live better, or become a better more enlightened person) only say those things precisely because they're not rational.

So unfortunately, one is only left with the less than ideal tool of communication, ie.: non-intellectual, emotive guilt trips, and accusing them of something counter to their unsubstantiated, but nevertheless very much factually deluded self-image of themselves; ie. if they consider themselves uber-patriots, call them commies, and pinko-liberals.

So the best one can hope for is either P0wnZ them with berating and embarrassment, which admittedly absolutely does not get us anywhere, let alone communicate the Freedom Philosophy. Or, simply shock them, and interrupt their verbal pattern if briefly, then in that moment of being shocked at the prospect of a stranger throwing back to them that they are not the self-image that they want to project, but are merely brainwashed imbecilic children, if you're feeling nice and enlightened drop some morsels of kind truth, delivered with tact, and lay seeds. And go to the next prospect who are actually more open to thinking.

Because let's face it; those who'll tell you such nonsense like "I support Israel" or rattle off "Homeland!" in any part of their verbal vernacular, you're really dealing with the same proportion of any given population who are most WILLFULLY inclined to become the "Good Germans," as were the case in 1923-1945 Nazi Germany.

Seriously, it's time to put these faux-patriot mooks on notice. As IF these would be the first ones anyone alive would look to, if we were faced with a genuinely imminent threat.

The Likudniks would be the first to crawl back inside their mommy's basement, but they'll still talk tough.

It's as if all the pussies from the Vietnam era somehow 'missed' out on killing all the SE.Asians and now they want to satisfy their bloodthirst vicariously by sending innocent men/women to die in feckless foreign wars and occupation, and have MSM bring back some snuff footages so they can get off on them.

If there isn't an official psychosis identified already, they really should name their affliction clinically, aside from all the ones we commonly use vs. neocons already: murderous Trotskyite lunatics, socipaths, psychopaths, etc.

In case people haven't noticed history, uber-nationalism only emerges post economic malaise, during last days of an empire in decline, and an old majority faction perceives it's losing its power. And have almost always resulted in the very much 100% predictable outcome of xenophobia and/or blame domestic group x, y, z, then mobilize another faction of the population to attack those said 'undesirables' to consolidate their power, then hijack govt to centralize it further into a tyrannical policestate to eventually control ALL of a given nation's population: we're right on track, like clockwork in our dying Republic.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Here's a link to a website

Here's a link to a website dedicated to this subject:

www.AmericansForIsrael.com

There's an abundance of articles to prove that Ron Paul's stance on Israel is the most "pro-Israel" out of any other candidate.

Check it out.

Ask her: "Depending upon how

Ask her:

"Depending upon how you count them, there are 191-194 other foreign countries in the world besides Israel; why is the US foreign policy toward Israel any more or less important than the US foreign policy towards these other 191-194 countries?"

Ben Swann...

On Ron Paul's views on Israel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyRCt6alIfg&feature=colike

Ben Swann on Ron Paul's newsletters:
http://youtu.be/rGH77lZsglU
part 2: http://youtu.be/2OSAuu1nVNo

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign: that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. ~J. Swift

Remind her

Remind her that Dr. Paul was the ONLY one who stood up in Israels defense of using their nuclear facilities as they saw fit..He was the only one. The media has done a good job of brainwashing people on many of Pauls stands..his book, A Foreign Policy of Freedom is a very good book for those to read that may be confused by his Foreign Policy and as usual, It is easy to read and not very long.

Tell her to read the New Testament

specifically Galatians Chapter 3. She is like many others and doesn't know what she knows.

*May the only ones to touch your junk, be the ones you want to touch your junk.*

Does Ron Paul dislike Israel?

Does Ron Paul dislike Israel? What specifically is she referring to in the newsletters? I've never come across any hard evidence of this and ive been researching him for a few years now.

Tell you what I don't like a bout Israel...

It is the Israeli Lobby which has influenced the foreign affairs of the United States of Amaerica. I do suspect that Israel, like other foreign nations owns a great deal of business and realestate in the US. This is a reason why I don't trust Israel, China, Japan, Germany, France...and the list goes on and on.

fearless brave joyful peaceful loving grateful, compassionate

Maybe suggest to her that

there is no way that Jesus would condone the bloodshed, misery and Violence, inflicted on His children in modern Palestine. His teachings in the Bible back this up 100%.
The Bible also teaches that things of this world are nothing compered to the Kingdom of Heaven, and that that Kingdom can ONLY be reached through the complete surrender of your heart to God, through living and breathing the message of His Son, Jesus Christ...and his message was Peace.
Power to you.

hey Troll..Jill

is this coming from the same person who said we should walk into our church and call it the "greatest hoax"...must be fun just commenting on others posts...with you troll theme song in background.........

He supports Israel's choice of capitol location

It sounds like your new friend is just hanging on to personal prejudice concerning Dr. Paul. Citing 'the newsletters' is not exactly up with current events.

Did your new delegate friend read that Dr. Paul supports Israel's decision to put her capitol in Jerusalem? That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't personally like Israel.