What is the liberty movement about? My observations about recent rhetoric here on the Daily Paul LIBERTY forum.
Submitted by SXgarage on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 19:21Is it advancing the causes of life liberty and property? About the self evident truths we have come to recognize, or about favoritism and political parties?
Why is it deemed by this community treasonous to support liberty in every avenue? Ron Paul is the obvious choice, but i ask you this, why is it ok to support liberty minded "REPUBLICANS" running for smaller offices yet GJ who is running for president is deemed to be some kind of anti-paul? RP is obviously more popular in terms of numbers, status and relevancy to the cause, but does that make johnson our enemy? does that make the libertarian party our enemy? because we choose to support a man running under the republican flag? WHY NOT support GJ while trying to get the nomination for paul? WHY NOT publicize other liberty candidates? Why not have a plan B?
I fear that this movement is moving towards glorification of RON PAUL rather than to see that Ron's work is completed in restoring the IDeals that made this nation what it is, I fear that the message will be lost to prejudice, and that the focus will ultimately be to reject moving toward liberty because the candidates name is not PAUL.
I recognize that this forum is called the daily paul, but WHO is ron paul, ron paul is the manifestation of the yearning we have for freedom, he is our most effective representative, but he is not the be all end all of the ideas of liberty, as is written in the motto of this this forum, PEACE GOLD LIBERTY that is the point. not rallies and political statements.
We can all recognize the similarities between establishment politicians, yet we choose to focus on the ever slight differences in the people who want to see liberty prevail, I urge my fellow liberty advocates, keep an open mind, welcome all who choose the path of liberty, for liberty is the antithesis of uniformity. If people here think we will ever have another RP, you will have made a major mistake, the same way we will never have another ghandi or mlk or any other individual that has changed the world. We must accept the fact that Ron Paul is the standard that all of us wish to achieve in our lives, and by god as long as he is in this race i will support him to the bloody end, BUT that does not mean i will oppose, or support the slander of other good men who like all men have flaws who have made it their lifes work to advance liberty.
Remember the goal, Life Liberty and private property.
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I understand what you say here
I think though most feel that if you believe in someone you should focus 100% of your time and resources into that one person without distractions. If efforts and resources were sent two different ways then it could be that neither would stand a chance. Folks are down to giving up their lunch money to get Paul in there and funds are not endless. So it comes to a choice of resources and efforts better invested. GJ doesn't stand a chance this time around, so why would anyone waste resources knowing this to be true, It just doesn't make any sense at all. Build his base after this run for the next run would be the best thing to do at this time. But to share limited efforts and resources? Timing is wrong.
"You go and carry off the enemy's land; the enemy comes and carries off your land"-Ancient Sumerian tablet
I like this post a lot.
While we all hope, and many are working actively, for the nomination of Dr. Paul as GOP candidate, that might not happen. SO what is plan B for voters? I know exactly what I am going to do. How will others decide?
And, other liberty minded candidates are running for other nominations. And, there will be other people on the presidential ballot besides Dem. & GOP candidates. Will you take the time to support them? In my state, NH, there are many great candidates running for office that are NOT liberty crushing windbags :) They will get my support.
Some of the comments to the original post are absurd and show an acute inability to comprehend what they read.
h-daddy
Gary Johnson
The issue that YOU need to face is that other 'liberty-minded' politicians like Gary Johnson are NOT RECOGNIZED.
While he may be as passionate about the same ideals, he gets NO AIR TIME in the minds of the masses.
Instead of trying to COMPETE with Dr. Paul, perhaps he should ALLY with him in The COMMON CAUSE of Restoring Liberty and Constitutional Principles, to WE THE PEOPLE.
I have seen Jesse Ventura as the secretary of Defense, Peter Schiff as the secretary of the Treasury, Andrew Napolitano as the Attorney General, Mike Adams as the secratary of Health, Alex Jones as Press Secretary, and several other people in various positions.
Dr. PAUL figured out in 1988, for God's Sake, that a run on a THIRD-PARTY ticket is NOT FEASIBLE, given the current brainwashed state of the SHEOPLE.
Gary Johnson hasn't figured this out, as of yet.
IF the Honorable 11-term Representative from the Great State of Texas, Dr. Ronald Paul, SHOULD gain the 'nomination' by the 'RNC' RHINOS, PERHAPS a Paul/Johnson ticket MIGHT be FEASIBLE.
MAYBE YOU should be considering THIS, and supporting the Good DOCTOR, instead of posting your OPINION about LIBERTY as YOU see it.
Food for thought, my libertarian friend!
I AM
MONTGOMERY SCOTT
Why do you expect us to abandon Dr. Paul when the going.........
.......gets tough and switch our allegiance to Gary Johnson? Dr. Paul is still in this fight. As much as I respect Mr. Johnson's political beliefs, on the few occasions I have seen him he seems to be complaining about the same thing you are. Dr. Paul is a fighter, not a complainer. That is why I cannot abandon Dr. Paul, the fight has just begun. You want us to cut and run.
I am done running. I am done compromising. It is Liberty or death.
Ron Paul, do or die. Ron Paul or Revolution. The time is not tomorrow any longer, the time is right here and right now.
Please stop asking us to be traitors to our beliefs and we will continue to respect your opinion even though it is obvious you do not respect our decision.
Thank you for commenting.
I believe the point of my article was misunderstood. I am just saying that people who think opposing or slandering others who are also liberty people counterproductive, I am for and will be for Paul till the end, but i needed to express my discontent concerning the treatment of others. All liberty activists presidential hopefuls and congressmen senators should be respected , it's like micheal Jordan punching Scottie pippen because Scotty was going to score a game winner... It's self destructive , and completely irrational to think we can have another like dr Paul, but there are othes out there looking to pick up the pieces and those individuals should be respected, that was the point. I am not going to vote for gj in the primary, but between robomney what choice do I have ? I don't know guys I'm not saying be a traior or any other non sensical conclusion someone can come to in an emotional response, I'm just saying liberty first, politics 2nd.
Paul said himself...
as long as we want him to continue, he will be in it to win it. I do not yet see a point in coming up with a plan B,C, or D. IF Paul decides to drop out or endorse another liberty candidate, then the focus can switch. When or if it happens would be that time. You just don't start promoting someone else when you are currently supporting someone running!? That is just unethical! If people are doing that, they are telling Paul to quit. Sorry...not me! I want him to stay in it and that IS the present focus of this movement on the D.P.
here is my point...
"Ron Paul is the standard that all of us wish to achieve in our lives, and by god as long as he is in this race i will support him to the bloody end, BUT that does not mean i will oppose, or support the slander of other good men who like all men have flaws who have made it their lifes work to advance liberty."
I was referring to...
...the part where you were talking about publicizing G.J. & having a plan B. I myself have not slandered the guy & he likes Paul himself. I was just making a point on that part of your comment. It kinda sounds as if you are balancing the two and getting ready to throw your support to G.J. and preparing for Paul to drop out. That might not be what you meant, but that is how some are reading it. I do not think its wrong to publish something(as they do with Rand) that has to do with what they have currently accomplished for liberty(such as signing or not signing a bill), but promoting them on the D.P. if they are in the same race as Paul...I do not think is right. If Paul himself reads it, he would probably look at it as people not wanting him to run any longer or giving up. I do however think it would be wrong to use name calling. That is just childish(although I probably have done that to the M.S.M.!). Maybe you can change some of the topic to focus more on the slander of good people instead...IDK. Have a great memorial weekend!=)
I know ! and agree!
Im not advocating for the abandonment of the goal for presidency! i am merely trying to provide some perspective for those who are prancing around this site slandering, calling people trolls and shunning people away from this movement because they hold certain opinions, and i think that is wrong.
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I agree somewhat
Gary Johnson and Rand Paul need to be supported. They as well are worthy of the cause.
But let's be clear, as long as RP is in the game, none of those mentioned can ever hope to have as much of an impact as RP does. Cause RP's qualities are simply that overwhelming. That's why RP will have the most success in moving the cause forward. Supporting anyone else, would move the cause forward, but slowly.
And Gary Johnson's chances will be slim, simply because of how 3rd party need to overcome considerable obstacles. So while I do support someone like him, he will never amount to anything as long as he stays in the Libertarian party. Then it makes more sense to support Rand over Gary, but only if RP steps out completely out of politics.
to your last point
about Libertarian Party. I think your position is weak. And as long as people believe as you believe then we are stuck with GOP and Dems. I find that discouraging to say the least. The only real obstacle Johnson faces right now is getting into the debates. If he can reach the 15% threshold (certainly an obstacle!) then he has a chance to make an impact. Every vote he gets improves the chances of other Libertarian candidates and rEVOLution candidates. And for 2016 every vote now makes it easier to get ballot access then.
h-daddy
speaking for myself
I believe there is something about Ron Paul the man that is bigger than the movement. It is why I do not get excited about rand Paul or Gary Johnson. Paul's courage inspires me.
very nice..
I hear GJ is a good liberty minded person.. It would behoove us all to look in to each person running and their voting records.. GJ is not our enemy I'm sure, the more information you have the better!
I can only speak for me.
I checked into GJ and did not find these 3 things:
1.
Stop enforcing Legal Tender Laws
2.
Stop enforcing National level Income Tax
3.
Stop consuming our best and brightest in aggressive wars for profit
I have seen Ron Paul work toward those goals.
If GJ worked toward those specific goals better than Ron Paul then I would measure GJ better at working toward those specific goals.
Those specific goals, when reached, return Liberty to this land as We The People would then be out from under those forms of Dictatorship, and We The People could work toward maintaining a Democratic Federated Republic instead of maintaining a Dictatorship.
What does GJ actually work toward?
I could not tell.
Joe
while a bit better than most
Gary Johnson has a long way to go to in experience and policy to be considered even approaching Ron Paul's league. The Republic doesn't need first aid it needs a doctor. Its bad enough we got Obamney followers posting all over the place we don't need GJ troll threads on top of it. Trying to pick off supporters by quotiung MSM BS when we're really winning.
Competitive angles
A competitive angle of view is to look ahead far enough to entertain the competitive possibilities.
I focus attention on 3 specific diversion off the path we are currently on and the path we are currently on is unmistakably going to end human life much too soon.
1.
Start using competitive monetary products (higher quality and lower cost)
That ONE alone has many names, such as End the FED, but the look ahead is not too tough to see, so long as the person looking has a brain to use instead of having a brain that is used by other people.
Get out your tax form. Accurately see how much of your earnings now flow to the False Front named The Federal Government, which is not Federal (Competitive/Liberated), it is National (Monopoly/Despotic).
How much is paid in "taxes", which is another False Front, those taxes are Extortion Payments from the victims to the criminals, criminals with badges, but forget all that and just look at the math. Look at the numbers.
How much does it cost now?
Now you have a measure of the cost, but know, seriously, know, that the overt extortion payment flowing from the earner to the National level thief is less in quality, or value, or POWER, compared to the covert flow that is flowing through the FRAUD that is the Central Bank Monopoly = the covert means of legal theft.
So it is safe to double that obvious, measurable, amount of POWER being lost by all the earners as that power flows to those few criminals on top of their pyramid scheme. Know your tax payment, double it, and now you have a rough, but accurate, measure of the power, in units of purchasing power, you have earned, and that power flows to the people who enslave you, by that much, each year.
Now there are two obvious things:
1.
End THE FED (start using higher and getting higher quality money that is reducing in cost due to market forces/competition)
2.
End THE IRS collectors POWER to collect. Stop making yourself weaker so that the people making you weaker have more power to make you weaker.
How can that work out in anyone's mind over the span of 1 year on that alternative path?
Which Path? Forgot already?
1.
The Doom Day Parade, rat race, race to the bottom, Civilized Cannibalism, Business as Usual, Business Cycle, Monopoly Crime made Legal, Perpetual War for Perpetual Profits of a few at the expense of the many, and the certain early extinction of the human species.
2.
You stop making Legal Crime Pay so well, opt out, keep what you earn, this much, each year, based upon the data that stares you right in the face every year when the TAX MAN comes knocking with the offer you can't refuse.
Who says you can't refuse?
Look in the damn mirror.
Get up.
Go to the bathroom.
Look in the mirror, and choose.
Now what?
Look to Gary Johnson for help?
Seriously.
How about getting a clue?
The third focus concerns that meat grinder consuming the best and brightest = Order the Troops to Follow a Lawful Order for a change of pace = Bring the Troops Home to Defend Liberty.
Clue-less-ness is rapidly becoming unaffordable.
Joe
Shameless self bump
I want people to see this message before it is drowned out.