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When Christians Join the Liberty Movement - We Win.

Think about it. The Liberty movement is the real home for Christians. The neocons and the statist right have fooled Christians into believing they should try to cram religion down everyone's throats through government. In return we grant the government powers that can later be used against Christians.

But the minute, the moment, the instance that most Christians leave the neocon and statist right wings and come to our side, IT IS OVER. I am a Christian and a Liberty-minded person in the same. As are many of you I am sure. But we aren't the majority. So we must work to bring these other Christians into the fold and welcome them. Because when this happens we will dominate.

Rand Paul may very well be the one who is the catalyst for this.

So if we win with Ron Paul - then we are home free. But if not, Rand will probably finish the job.

We need Christians.

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Rand Paul is a statist and not the catalyst or your leader.

Stop making up things. Rand has never said he is the leader or affiliated or in the liberty movement. He has strictly said he is with tea party. So if you want Rand, you are a tea partier, not liberty minded.

rand has publicly backed Romney for months and never said anything negative against him. just that he belives romney is 'precisely' what this country needs. so if you like rand, then you like romney and now have romney.

You are forcing Rand in because that is what establishment and media has been telling you. Rand is well under the wings of tea party and establishment.

You need to find another leader or be your own leader. liberty movement has no organization or leaders (ron has stepped in temporarily, but as far as any movement, he has not called for one). he has been educating people in rallies and occassionally in debates.

you are making rand to be someone he is not and he himself never said he was.


When they stop....

fighting with each other. I think they will join us.

"Freedom is never easy in a world of tyranny" - ME

This is true

actually his foreign policy is what will attract true followers of christ. The whole, love your enemy and turn the other cheek etc.

Church & 911 Truth

there are many-many individual christians who are 911 truthers, but as a church or group we do not hear much. pls see DP thread -

i recall Pres.Bush even used the term "Crusade" for the war on terror.

Fox News must be...

...exposed to them! That is their sheep in wolves clothing. It is written "My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge".

80% of the people in this nation claim to be Christian.

That is a huge number of voters that need to be educated.
Those Christian voters are the key to liberty in this country.
It doesn't take a marketing genius (even if he's an atheist)
to figure that one out.

If you could go back in time

If you could go back in time and bring the historical person of Jesus back to the present, I guarantee you he'd not recognize "American Christianity" as having anything to do with what he preached. Also, I bet half the population (or more) wouldn't even want to look at the man because he would not reflect the cartoonish "savior" that has been cultivated to make him and his message more palatable.

"historical person of Jesus"

so right, about "go back in time", = there you will find No "historical person of Jesus". Yes, the son of Maryum received the honored title of Maseah, and she never called her son by the name-word 'Jesus'.

Yes, we've had that

Yes, we've had that conversation before and I yield to your superior knowledge of linguistics. My post is entirely Western in perspective for a Western audience.

Language and Empire:

thanks, just collecting bits. the link below has a very informative article on the role /influence of languages. the author sympathizes with the eastern perspective.
Language and Empire: My Language, Your Prison, by Dr. Thorsten Pattberg

Velveeta, I agree with you...

but who are you or I to judge whether they are Christians or not? If they SAY they are Christians (80%) I have to take them at their word.

Biblical Prophecy states that God's judgement will BEGIN at the PULPIT.
The best way for the wolves to fool the flock is to be a wolf in sheep's clothing (false teacher) and lead them astray. The end times Biblical "famine" spoken of in the Bible is not for FOOD but for the WORD of God. Therefore, most Christians today are getting the watered down SOCIAL gospel of man and his traditions and treating it as if it's from God. People are not seeking life-changing spiritual guidance as much as they are seeking an hour of entertainment on Sunday. (OK, I can check that off as done until next Sunday). You are correct, I believe that if Jesus walked into most churches today he would shake His head and say "this is not what I had in mind."

The same thing all over again with the RINOs, they think they are Republicans, but if we went back into history to the original GOP's goal of small government they would not recognize the Grand Ole Party either.

If they say they are Christians, then 80% of the voters are Christians.
Why not gear our efforts toward educating the majority? Use the language they are familiar with and from their prospective, 9/11, terrorists and Israel is their language...."we like Ron Paul except for his foreign policy", I hear that all of the time.
Only God knows their "Christian" heart and I am in no position to judge.
However, I can use spiritual discernment based on my knowledge of God's Word...if I find that the fruits they bare are not in alignment with my understanding of Christian behavior or attitudes then chances are I won't be inviting them into my home or inner circle any time soon. While in the market place we tolerate and respect each other and lead by example.

Use the 20/80 marketing rule. If you take the 20% of your efforts which is most effective and you get 80% of the market why would you bother with the rest of the effort and expenditures? Our 80% happens to be the Christian population. As much as the pagans hate that idea, this young country will not continue to be blessed if it is any other way. We need the Christian vote and if we get it that means the blinders are off, we will have wise, compassionate, discerning Christians influencing our leaders; and that is a good thing. (and an answer to my prayers)

Ron Paul promotes religious freedom and I belief most Christians want to do what is right. If given equal opportunity to hear the whole truth and sound reasoning without "talking heads" and religious wolves in sheep's clothing I believe many more Christians would understand that government cannot be the "moral" authority. Government's job is to ensure that each individual citizen has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The church should be an example of truth, love, discipline and charity.

Their fruit gives them away

Matthew 7

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

(I didn't read all your post but this verse came to mind and wanted to post it)

The post was a little long, but I did get to the fruits.

I take a little different approach; you may want to read it in the original post.
I cannot JUDGE (as in eternal life) whether a person is a "Christian", only God knows their hearts.

I am curious, would you equate SIN with bad fruit? If so...sooner or later we all sin and bare bad fruit. Most likely we sin (bare bad fruit) on a daily basis. So then based on the Matt 7:15 verse who would be a Christian and who would not?

PS: I believe the Bible is inerrant and the errors come in from man's
misinterpretation or ill intentions.

When Pagans join the Liberty

When Pagans join the Liberty movement, we'll win. For that matter, when the Muslims, Atheists, Jews, Buddhists et al join the Liberty movement, we'll win.

Freedom is not just for Christians particularly since freedom is about the rights of the individual, not the group. When we talk in terms of groups we reinforce the misconception that there are special classes of people, some being more important than others. No one is more important or more special than another, regardless of their individual beliefs. Reach out to all groups, not just some, find tolerance for all groups, not just some, stress individual liberty for all, not just some, and then we will win.

Blessings )o(

I understand what you mean and I respect that sentiment.

But, 70%+ of Americans don't profess to be Muslims, Atheists, Jews, Buddhists, or everything non-Christian combined for that matter. Over 70% of Americans profess to belong to some sect or denomination of Christianity. We can fish for diversity and lose with a small, but diverse movement, or we can find the catfish beds and win.

You missed the point

You missed the point entirely. I'm saying stop creating groups of people and start approaching everyone as individuals! Its this type of collectivist thought that has already ruined our country. Instead of targeting a special group we need to promote the fact that none are special, and all are special, because we all are guaranteed individual liberty in this country. The message of individual liberty will appeal to all people whether Christian, Pagan, Muslim, Atheist, Jew, Buddhist, etc. By approaching each as an individual you can appeal to the concerns of that person and turn them to liberty. When you reach out to a certain "group" you by necessity exclude others who don't fit into that group, thus creating classes of people. Talk to individuals, target individuals, not groups.

"Any group or “collective,” large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." ~ A. Rand

Blessings )o(

Everything you said is the exact reason why

the Libertarian Party has never picked up steam and never will. Individual rights is something that is sacred and a basic tenet of everything we believe in. But, like it or not, you can't change human nature and any attempt to do so will always end in failure. Voting blocs exist whether we like it or not. They have always existed and always will. NOBODY in the history of this country has EVER won an election by bringing diverse groups of individuals together. However, many have won elections by bringing different voting blocs together (see Barrack Obama, election of). It takes a coalition to win an election. Like I said, if we can build a coalition with Christian Conservatives, not only will we retake the GOP, but we will be an unstoppable force every single election.

You see, this perfectly

You see, this perfectly illustrates why folks refuse to be recognized as individuals, free of the trap of collectivism. They prefer the anonymous power of being part of, and being recognized as a group. It's survival instinct.

Being all alone is frightening! People who go their own way are crazy and must be avoided! Yet the myth of the "self-made person" persists, because confident, powerful individuals are envied and applauded, but only if they look, think and act in a way their adoring followers approve.

Am I being too cynical, or not cynical enough?

We are individuals a part of a group.

That group is known in politics as a voting bloc. We happen to call it the Ron Paul Revolution.

The professing Christian church...

...is in bed with the gubbermint!


Anyone, religious/irreligious, who TRUSTS in the security of this out-of-control system(house of cards) is simply duped!

Christians; especially Christians, ought to SELF-EDUCATE instead of lining up to be indoctrinated at church, by the Fox News Channel, right-wing-talk-radio, and government subsidized education from pre-K through all collegiate levels where "free money" is presumed to be funding it!

This liberty movement has PLENTY of Christians in its ranks; and these are the Christians it should have ... our founders had plenty of Christian opposition too.

Again; are you trusting in security from the laws of nature and nature's God - or - trusting in the security found in temporal things/systems that finite man creates, that always ends in failure as those things move away from God as time goes on?

You are painting with broad

You are painting with broad strokes my friend.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

Christians who home school...

...they really stand out as the Christians who "get it"...meaning, there are 3 professing Christians running for President right now; and 66% of those candidates do NOT bear the fruit of a Christian in the likeness, wisdom, morality, policy positions of our founders vision for this Republic.

This is how nation's fall; majority opinion, Christians FEAR their government and will NOT speak up or run for office themselves, they don't rock the boat, the compromised culturally distracted Christians believe we're a "good" nation about 78% of the time so it ain't that bad, a.k.a. DEMOCRACY!

Call it a broad brush if you want; but, I think Christians who call other Christians who know their Bibles "narrow" are the one's who are o.k. with "buying influence" and letting this nation and our dollar go to hell without thinking it through; fact is, Ron Paul is a RADICAL in their eyes - i.e. Ron Paul did not win the fundamentalist Baptist vote in South Carolina or a substantial amount of the south - that exposes ignorance and compromise to me, and our founders and other subsequent Christian Statesmen/clergy used to shame ignorance, sin, and dabbling in vices and spoiling the government to one's own turn through voting for their own self-interest instead of our posterity.

If anyone is going to call themselves a "little Christ" then they ought to have the light of the Word shined upon their opinions, philosophy, deeds, attitudes, and behaviors - and - if the Word of God chaps their hide; GOOD! His Word and His moral absolutes have NEVER changed, nor, has His literal 6-day creation account; perhaps the #1 compromise of most professing Christians!

Broad brush, or, narrow stance? Satan is the master counterfeiter; and if the American people want a "god" or "jesus", then the State is more than happy to oblige them with a 501c3 incorporated church, a "god"(intelligent design) that used evolution theory to create the earth and humanity, and a "god" that loves the sinner but hates the sin so much that no one will ever go to hell once they pass on from this world because a "loving god" would NEVER do that.

Soooooo much compromise, so many knee-jerk Christians who HATE the "narrow" view that adheres to and references the scriptures in order to persuade other believers at the same time clean up their own act. Salvation is not a flu-shot; repentance is a lifelong fruit of a Christian who is being sanctified and set apart - as well as wisdom that comes from having the scales removed from one's own eyes in order that they may see and discern deception, compromise, and see clearly that Satan's counterfeit church is/was the #1 tool at propping up dictatorships and tyrannical governments via "the voice of the people".

"Broad" would be the whole of the right-wing media and their purported Judeo-Christian ethic/approach to both foreign and domestic policy - it is(as Ron Paul understands it, and patiently addresses it), and abomination to our founder's beliefs and sacrifices; and it is the SHAME of the professing Christian church to unwittingly vote for their own enslavement by remaining willfully ignorant of the scriptures, as well as, surviving selfishly as men-pleasers; living in fear of men and primarily concerned with heaping to themselves creature comforts in this Federal Reserve house of cards system.

Agnostics and atheists who support Ron Paul have more of a spine to defend truth in this movement, and that is SAD; where does their confidence rest, and what is their moral compass? Yet, they get it; and...they get BUSY...shame to the sheep is what I am saying, I am a patriot selflessly fighting for this Republic for my children, rejecting and criticizing the deceptive theocratic ruse that has brought us to this point.

Wow. Well said. I see you

Wow. Well said.
I see you have begun using the fine point.
I whole heartedly agree.
At lunch now. More later. Thank you for a thought to muse on at my mindless job.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

I am absolutely impressed

With your realizations of truth here,truly. I am persecuted all the time for speaking out with the same message as you are sharing here. It is not the religion that is the problem, because in it's self it is very sound with morals. It is the true actions that come from it in the name of morals that are the problem. I truly respect the religion, I am just wide awake enough to see the wrong actions of those within the religion. To claim faith is no excuse to justify or hide the true actions. Thank you.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Want to harness the huge Christian vote

in the Republican Party? Take back the Tea Party! Attend tea party events and meetups. Be kind, respectful, and informative. We already agree with the fiscal tenets of the Tea Party. If we can convince and persuade TPers on the FISCAL calamities of an interventionist foreign policy we will dominate the Republican Party. But, if that's going to happen, we're going to have to go where they are. For instance, they aren't Occupying Wall Street.

That is a great point, Dixie-Paleocon...

... and, to a large extent, the Tea Party is already a mix of the Christian Right and the Liberty Movement.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand



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wolfe's picture

That was confusing...

Please warn me next time that I need to take some "medicine" before watching the link when they are like that... :)

The Philosophy Of Liberty -

When atheists join the liberty movement we win.

When anybody, believer or unbeliever, joins the liberty movement we win.

While the Liberty Movement...

... should be open to all religious persuasions, adopting an explicitly atheistic orientation would, in my opinion:

1. Destroy our philosophical and historical underpinning (God-given inalienable rights)

2. Be incapable of winning the Presidency, or becoming a dominant member of a major political party, for the foreseeable future.

I am not saying that you are advocating for an anti-Christian, atheist-based Liberty Movement, Velveeta Underground, but others on DP have so advocated.

A Constitutional, Christian conservative who voted for Ron and stands with Rand