13 votes

Small brother to bust election riggers

I follow Ron Paul campaigns since end of 2007 and after having read now Ron Paul is favorable to 93% I wonder even more just why he is polling so low in official straw polls and then anyway his supporters sometimes pick a bulk of delegates.
For example: Ron Paul and his supporters clearly won already the very first state Iowa big time - so far 14 delegates out of 28 and that is still not the final number - yet establisment and media deceived (not only) American people with the never certified and non-binding straw poll, hastily claiming victory for Romney and then after weeks of mess for Santorum... Imagine what a devastating initial momentum the Ron Paul campaign would have from the very beginning of the GOP candidate selection process if the Iowa crushing victory (so far 14 to 1) would be widely known back in January...

I might have an idea how Ron Paul voters can find out whether their votes were counted properly or not. A "video exit poll".

what is needed for this:
-The (local) volunteer(s), Ron Paul supporters with a tripod and camera able to be at his local polling place for the whole day. The camera could have a nice sign with something like "Ron Paul Voters Count" on it.
-Ron Paul voters should spread the word and be wearing any visually identifiable Ron Paul gear (T-shirts, badges, hats...) when going to the polling place to vote.

The volunteer arrives early outside the polling place, points and focuses camera at the entrance for a stable shot, switches date and timestamp on and continually records all people coming in and out, having made sure he/she has enough memory and batteries to record for the whole day.

The video may be reviewed at later stage and one can count the people wearing Ron Paul gear. Alternatively after having voted, the RP voters can come in front of the camera with the banner "Ron Paul Voters Count" on it and say a statement to the meaning "I, [name], just voted for Ron Paul at the poll in [name of the place]" or something along those lines. Date and timestamp is provided by camera and the record then becomes evidence - I believe something like a "video affidavit" where your signature is substituted by your face stating on record you have voted for Ron Paul.

After the poll is closed the video is be reviewed and the Ron Paul voters counted. If Ron Paul gets counted substantially less votes at the poll than the number of people on your video wearing RP gear or saying the statement to the camera, then you can spread the word, get them sign affidavits if needed and get the election riggers busted.
This of course can be combined with the affidavit and exit poll action at the place as i.e. proposed here: http://www.dailypaul.com/236316/libertyusa-pac-will-stop-ele...

A picture is worth a thousand words, and especially in the age of TV being substituted by YouTube and such like, a video can be even worth of saving world from the hands of fraudsters who want it destroyed using their puppet politicians (s)elected using fraud.
Many people now have digital cameras with sufficient memory to record many hours of video, let's use them for something really important. It can be fun too.
This of course can be used in any future election where an "establishment unfriendly" candidate is in the race and election fraud is likely. I believe you can legally record video in a public place anywhere in the USA.

I think all the money donated to the campaigns and all the effort and enthusiasm will get wasted if the voters are unable to control the key thing - make sure the election itself is not rigged as many indicia suggest. The evil prevails if good people do nothing.

What do you think? Have you any suggestions of improvements?
If you like this idea and find it viable make sure it does not get burried.
Jan, Prague, Czech Republic



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Better solution

The problem is a video alone may not hold up in court, which is the only place this fraud can be stopped.

See my post below and especially the post I linked to there for a plan that could hold up in court. Vote them up. That said video as collaborating evidence is also a good idea.

http://www.dailypaul.com/236258/bstop-primary-vote-fraud-now-b

Mighty mountains in grandeur stand, but tiny raindrops turn them to sand! Noah, I think I just felt a raindrop!!

Big thumbs up!

I think the time to seriously wake up is long overdue. The GOP candidate selection process in this 2012 race is clearly rigged right from the very beginning in Iowa and New Hampshire, I don't doubt it at all and it very much looks to me even from the fragmentary statistical informations I have here in Europe that all candidates except Romney at some stage of this theater were stollen votes to achieve Romney being the artificial (his poorly attended rallies speak for themselves) GOP favorite - and especially Ron Paul in key Iowa and New Hampshire, where they have stollen his victory and it irreparably affected his campaign momentum.
But I don't believe Romney is pushed in this to win the presidential race. I think he is in it as useful idiot only to secure Obama's second term. From the election arithmetics is quite clear to me that even if the Ron Paul supporters would somehow achieve to get rid of election rigging in November, Obama will most probably win not because the independent voters would vote for him -as last time deceived by his "change" hypnotic slogans- but because they will not vote for Romney. Maybe the establishment would not even need to rig the November election if Romney is the GOP nominee.
But I don't think the stopping of the election riggers is in vain, quite on the contrary, this corrupted system must be stopped and it is first priority. Ron Paul maybe will not become president this year (but it is now clear that he would most probably make it if only the GOP primaries and caucuses were not rigged) but his ideas and movement he inspired must and will live and I think the LibertyUSA PAC and ronpaulvotecount people, who already bitterly realized what's going on with the straw polls could be its future core.
And still, I'm an optimist, Ron Paul is not so old and his vitality is exceptional, he can live another 15 years just according to presidential age statistics, it is not utterly impossible he can make his candidacy in 2016 again. For this to even have any sense to happen the fix in elections must be ousted.
Sorry I'm so frank.

The problem I have with ideas

The problem I have with ideas such as this or the one talking about having people sign their names that they voted for Dr. Paul, is this: suppose there is an election in an area with 8000 voters, and we utilize either the camera method which you brought forth or the signing method which someone else has brought up. Now suppose that after the votes are counted the results are 2000 for Dr. Paul and 6000 for Mittens. All of a sudden RP supporters are screaming from the rafters about election fraud, and stating that they have incontrovertible proof that the election results are fake, and that Dr. Paul received 5500 votes and Mittens only got 2500 votes. There is a public counting of the ballots and indeed RP had 2000 votes and Mittens had 6000 votes. This makes RP supporters look crazy, and it discredits RP, us, and the movement.

What happened you might ask. Well the establishment and Mitten's supporters, 3500 of them to be exact, decided to wear RP gear and make a false statement on camera or by signing a paper that they either did or were going to vote for RP. They did this for the sole purpose of discrediting everything which we stand for. The worse part about this simulation of an election is that it would work; and there is nothing anybody could do about it. What one says on camera or signs to on a piece of paper before or after an election is meaningless -there would be nothing to stop people from lying to skew the numbers. With there being no possible consequences to giving false information, it would be naive to think that any results acquired, by camera or signing a paper, would actually be accurate.

Hmm

Do you really believe anybody can organize 3500 local republican voters for Mitt to wear RP gear an give false statements on camera and all this, additionaly, would never get exposed before RP people will ask recount? Looks to me quite far fetched.

3500 mittens supporters?

Maybe in Utah, maybe.

The point being, if you

The point being, if you missed it, was that video or signatures on paper don't prove anything. The actual amount is meaningless the 3500 was just an example of how it could be possible to skew the results, and how having video or signatures cannot prevent anything. People do lie when it suits them. People here on DP are suggesting to lie that they are all delegates or even to say that they are Romney delegates; so if you think Romney wouldn't be able to get his supporters to wear a RP button or something and then lie on a video, you are seriously naive.

You have a point, in that you have to be able to claim

that your proof is iron clad. Besides, I am told by someone on the edges of the campaign, whom I trust but don't have permission to quote, that exit polls are not considered valid evidence in court.

I was thinking about

before I made the initial post, what would happen if the Romney people would pretend to be Ron Paul supporters. But then I rejected this being massively possible, because I don't think it is viable to recruit so many normal local people to pretend they are Ron Paul supporters either wearing RP gear or make false statements without the whole thing getting exposed. It is not about 3500 number (and I understand it was just example from your side) but reality is the statistical analyse of say New Hampshire suggests vote fliping from Paul - as well as Gingrich, Huntsman and Santorum - to Romney of maybe literally tens of thousands of votes statewide especially in the precincts where many people vote
-here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByJAC-sfXwumdkE4d0Y2eWtURTZ2...
see first chart at the page 1 and the table at the page 11
official data if you want to check are here:
http://sos.nh.gov/2012RepPresPrim.aspx
Imagine how big this RP voter spoofing operation would need to be just in the case of the one state NH example, how much resources as money, organization and conspiring you would need to invest to something like that.
I don't push this my idea is viable, it's just an idea, somebody was trying simmilar thing apparently (http://www.dailypaul.com/236435/small-brother-to-bust-electi...) with very interesting result but if it works would need further testing.
You're right that many people in the RP camp are maybe quite selfdelusional? if they think they have enough delegates, maybe even trying to deceive themselves that the "Paul/Romney" delegates will have somehow chance to vote Ron Paul on first ballot or that with this "trick" it is enough to nominate Ron Paul.
I'm in fact quite very skeptical when I see what happened with Iowa or what suggests the statistical analysis of the same way key NH results. And I believe it is the straw polls rigging which on the end would result in Ron Paul not being nominated because the straw polls have much bigger coverage than the thing which really matters the delegate polls.
Just imagine, and I repeat it over and over, how the whole campaign would be different if the delegate result 14 to 1 from Iowa would be known back in January and there wouldn't be the massive rigging of NH or it would be at least under close examination and counting every Ron Paul voter independently and everybody would know it is. In my opinion that would make Ron Paul win and the race favorite without any much doubt and the MSM would not be much able to downplay it.
But it is now unfortunately just the proverbial "what if..." The s**t already happened and big time and from the very beginning of this whole GOP process.
But it would also be selfdelusional to think that it would not happen next time again and the whole country would not continue to sink in the realm of absolute corruption if the people do nothing effective about it. Something effective should be done about it otherwise the whole thing of such an "demogracy" is just a theater nothing else.
That was my point why I posted this naive idea (I'm in Europe and I can't do anything about unfortunately than think about this) to restart a serious discussion here and thank you for "advocating diaboli" in it, because without it would be just a blabber.

I understand what you are

I understand what you are trying to do, but I think that we need at least one RP supporter at each election station counting the votes aloud. Not all voting stations use electronic voting systems; also, not all voting stations allow candidate paraphernalia to be worn inside the facility -so most people, unless they are working outside the voting station, don't wear anything of the candidate of their choice when they go vote. This is how it is at my voting location, which is why I said it wouldn't be hard for establishment people to just lie on camera or by signing a piece of paper, because at my voting station you have no idea who is voting for whom.

I also think that the establishment would do anything it can to discredit Dr. Paul and/or his supporters as well as the movement itself; the fact is, they need to discredit it or they will all be removed from power.

But I just want to say my really big concern is that if we did what you suggested, I don't think it would matter at all, because it wouldn't prove anything in a court of law, and therefore, it wouldn't prevent Dr. Paul from being screwed by the establishment.

I agree, those straw polls matter(theatrically) more than the delegate count, and if we could have secured Dr. Paul a win in one State before March, the establishment would never have been able to stop that from snowballing into a win at the National Convention. But, I think the delegate strategy is good and we will be able to accomplish a lot at the National Convention because of it.

Keep generating new ideas, don't let me rain on your parade. I just look at how our enemies can use the things we do against us.

interesting

So the voters in your place are not allowed to wear RP gear when going to vote?

What is really interesting to me is the suggestion to read votes aloud. It looks like good idea. Would this be somehow viablein the places where many people vote and where according to the statistics the rigging is apparently mostly taking place?

I also think the delegate strategy is the best what can be done in this corrupt system and I hope it will push through some influence of the liberty loving people despite the establishment wants them shut up and does everything it can to make the look bad.

It's not only candidate

It's not only candidate paraphernalia but also 'party' paraphernalia the people in my area are not permitted to wear inside the voting station; they say it could intimidate or influence others to vote against who they intended to vote. This is not just against Ron Paul this is for every candidate and every party.

Technically it would be viable, it would just take a very long time to implement. Reading aloud 20,000 votes or more could take quite a while; so it probably wouldn't be desired. However, they could open more voting stations in a given area or areas to reduce the number of people voting at any particular voting station. So, instead of 20,000 people voting at one station, they could split that up to five or more stations; but still hand counting and reading aloud 4,000 votes could still take quite a while, so I doubt that it is actually doable.

I certainly hope that we can get some Liberty candidates elected this election, because I'm not really sure we may have many opportunities left before they cancel elections due to some fake perceived threat.

looks like

this counting aloud would need quite a costly fragmentizing of the voting stations. Could anybody expect it to happen?

I also hope some Liberty candidates will get elected. Something is always better than nothing.

I don't rule it out as impossibility, but I don't much believe they would even seriously think about to cancel elections -as far as the fix is in, because whole the election theatre substantially helps to legitimize the establishment and its agenda and they can always tell the people "you have what you voted for and if you don't like it next time you're free to choose somebody else, that's the democracy folks and if you don't like the curent rulers, its your fault - you have elected them" (and repeat this voter victimizing tale with all its variations over and over) - and even it is all a lie, as far as the massive election fraud is not proven they can always claim being legitimately elected, next time use their resources stollen from the people to buy more media bias, get more of the machines, outsource more vote counting to obscure ofshore companies and rig the elections again even better and get there another puppet they want to continue their show.
Only case I can imagine they would seriously think about canceling elections turning their evergreen demogracy tale on its head is in a case their election rigging would get exposed nationally big time.
But that would be I think a dying-monster-kicking-all-around-pre-civil-war situation which I think they can't afford as far as the gun control measures don't find their way and they eventually succeed to disarm the American public -as they try whenever they have any opportunity to do it and despite the 2nd Amendment is firmly written in the Constitution for expressed purpose of defending free state and despite the conspiring against it is the federal capital crime under USC 18 §241. So, not happy to say it, the clock is unfortunately ticking not in favor of the Liberty case and there is in my opinion not much time left if we see what unprecedented powers Obama assumes abolishing at the same time the pillars of the civil rights and liberties including free speech and assembly, habeas corpus as well as the posse comitatus and that he is clearly the chosen one by the behind-the-scenes to win the second term and become a puppet-dictator under martial law he and his predecessors incrementaly were imposing at least since 9/11 - which with the Romney (who was together with Santorum and Gingrich used to artificially fragmentize the "right" and independent electorate against the countercorruption unitizing momentum of the "Ron Paul danger" - and he is with his movement potentially indeed a fatal danger for the establishment crooks and fiends - so they thoroughly made sure - without people elsewhere even much noticing the seriousness of it for months - he doesn't win the straw poll in Iowa and New Hampshire (etc.) - although he very much could accomplish it if the fix wasn't in, and if he won at least in the Iowa - as he indeed on the end effectively did despite the fix - with national publicity back in January, the snowball effect would most probably become unstoppable - because Ron Paul is exceptionaly gifted and able to clearly identify and explain what are the problems with the government and has enough integrity to criticize it without hypocrisy - and I would think he would eventually win over Obama in landslide, because if he would be the GOP nominee he would most probably win full support of most of the traditional republican voters if only given chance to debates with Obama to show it is indeed the Obama who is godless extremist not Ron Paul and also pick vast majority of the independent voters who suffer serious disilusion since they voted for Obama last time deceived by his void slogans and promises and maybe even pick a substantial part of democrats suffering the same - sorry for the long parenthesis) as the GOP nominee I don't much have reasons not to believe that it will be a feat Obama can accomplish even without any November presidential election rigging.

How many people would object to being asked on camera

who they voted for? People take their anonymity seriously, regarding elections.

pretty sure

revpac set up exit polls and had a hard time getting people to take part, no one wanted to reveal who they voted for.

I think there is a rationale

to not tell who the people voted for, especially in the subdictatorship police state where political minorities (or maybe in case of Ron Paul even majorities?) can be targeted. But how else the people can expose the election rigging than count the votes independently to check the whole process?

I would think

that this alternative option that the people will make the statement on camera should be of course only voluntary - if somebody wants to come out and make the statement it is encouraged because it can have almost a value of an affidavit, but of course the people should not be in any way manipulated into it.
I would think that identification of Ron Paul supporters just by the RP gear is anyway easier and takes less time. The Ron Paul supporters anyway wear Ron Paul gears in public massively so there is not much a point to not do it on the day of the polls because of "privacy concerns".
I would think that in the overspied America if anybody is a Ron Paul supporter the establishment can very well know it anyway. If I would be an American voter I would be proud voting for Ron Paul and say it in public, because he and his supporters look very much like it is them who can save the liberty there and definitely not Romney or even Obama who already has a history of authorizing unprecedented policestate measures.
Also, at least in the caucuses the people must show publicly their support for their candidate and so they win then if sufficiently numerous and a privacy in who they vote for is simply not there.
I would even think that the secretivenes with the election makes it then quite easily defraudable by the corrupt establishment.

I just set it up in the Sandberg Hall exit poll, Milwaukee, and

Video taped all exiters for 8 hours, with only one person objecting, who was a socialist-type Democrat. You have the full rights to set up the video.

Tell your local Sheriff, if you want, that you're going to do it. Or just do it.

That tape may prove crucial to us eventually, as I was forced out of the poll and the Milwaukee Board of Elections ultimately pulled their results from their Website.

Would encourage Ron Paul supporters, who are exiting, to set up a camera, if possible. See these links:

http://www.dailypaul.com/225283/breaking-news-we-were-cheate...
http://www.dailypaul.com/227926/milwaukee-county-halts-certi...

thank you for the links

very interesting informations, it again indeed shows that the election rigging is very real and massive and must be exposed otherwise this whole activism in campagning gets wasted and people are given anyway somebody else than they voted for.
The superphony declaration of Romney the "winner" of Iowa set clearly he was the prefered favorite of the establishment from the very beginning and it now looks like they steal votes from everybody else to make him the nominee, playing the pety deceptive game with the public with sometimes leaving to "win" Gingrich and Santorum to confuse the public even more. This is really disgusting and has nothing to do with a democracy.

reedr3v's picture

Perhaps if the video did not show their faces

? Just record the voices and show the numbers of bodies?

Yeah

it could be an option. If the people don't want their face shown fair enough, the voice is enough for counting the vote I would think.

All we need to do

is prove it in one precinct, then make a stink and demand a hand recount.

yes

I would think the LibertyUSA Pac people planning the exit polls and affidavit action (http://www.dailypaul.com/236316/libertyusa-pac-will-stop-ele...)in Texas and California could try.