7 votes

Reinstatement of the draft advocate Michael Savage

Yesterday I heard someone call in stating that World War II could have ended with defeat of Hitler without the U.S. instituting the draft. Michael Savage called him an idiot and said the guy was probably one of those Ron Paul supporters. Dr Savage was stating that instead of volunteer soldiers being sent back to Iraq or Afghanistan 4 times, they should be replaced by draftees. Do you think a person is an idiot to think Hitler would still have lost without a World War II U.S. mandatory draft?

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wolfe's picture

Hitler was already defeated...

With or without the US, let alone the draft...

Leave idiotic history to idiotic people. If he actually had any understanding of history, he would know the draft and in fact US presence was irrelevant in WWII. And the draft is what ended Vietnam when it did. Without the draft, Vietnam would probably still be going on today.

Edit: (To be clear, I mean the draft ended Vietnam by creating the public outcry against the draft and therefore the war.)

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Draft beer, not people.

These ongoing wars would never have lasted this long if there was a draft.

These ongoing wars would

These ongoing wars would never have lasted this long if there wasn't a draftFederal Reserve.

18 year olds...

18 year olds can be drafted and send to get limbs blown off, yet they can't buy a beer or a handgun at that age, and they can't smoke a little green plant....PERIOD?!?!

When they institute a draft, I say Mr. Savage can line up right behind Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Beck, Mark Levin, Neal Boortz, and the fascists from RedState (I'm psychological scarred after visiting that s###hole) next time they start demonically yelling for spilling Arab blood. Sent those neocons into a war-zone and we'll see how quick they tuck tail and run!

I'd pay good money to have a front row seat to that!

"We're going to take the government out of your bedroom, your bloodstream, your brain, your bladder, your business, your billfold, your back pockets, your bingo halls and your Internet bulletin boards." -Gatewood Galbraith

We wouldn't need the draft at all

if welfare recipients were required to do a tour of duty to qualify. That would shrink the rolls tremendously!

I don't really have a problem

I don't really have a problem with the draft so long as the congress went back to declaring war.

23

Slavery

Then you shouldn't have a problem with slavery if congress declares an "economic emergency."

I suggest you read the 13h Amendment.

That is an absurd

That is an absurd interpretation of the thirteenth amendment . Just because you don't like it doesn't make it unconstitutional. Read article 1 section 8

23

13th Amendment

Clearly bans involuntary servitude like conscription.

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Article 1 section 8 The

Article 1 section 8

The Congress shall have Power To:

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

The final clause, when combined with "to raise and support armies" is the strongest support of it, and the 13th amendment was clearly intended to abolish true slavery, not conscription. The SCOTUS has ruled too, though I know how much weight most of you and even me give to the SCOTUS opinion. But I do believe the decision was UNANIMOUS.

Furthermore, look what our hero Thomas Jefferson has to say:

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/40220706?uid=3739832&u...

Get over it. There are a few sacred duties of citizens in a free society. So long as they are honored and not trifled with by the powers that be, and we follow the constitution with respect to wars, this is a duty of every citizen.

I'm not saying it is necessary or that there must be a draft, but should the congress decide so be it.

23

Article I does not necessitate conscription

Nowhere in your Article I does it permit "conscripting" men for service. Raising an army and organizing a militia does not require conscription. There was no draft in the Revolutionary War or the time of the ratification of the Constitution.

Forcing men involuntarily into military service is clearly involuntary servitude by definition. To argue otherwise requires an extraordinary contortion of logic. I agree that the SCOTUS does that regularly in order to preserve their statist aims.

The question that interests me is for you: how can you reconcile being an advocate for liberty while simultaneously arguing in favor of a special case for involuntary servitude? You ideology seems inconsistent.

The governments

The governments responsibility is to protect our liberties. Our's is to protect our government. Liberty does not equate to zero responsibility as a statesman.

I do believe the necessary and proper clause allows for a conscription, particularly when you hear about how Mr Liberty Jefferson was at least not against conscription and more likely in favor of it. I never said Article one necessitates conscription. I said it grants congress power for that.

And its rare you see a unanimous verdict from the SCOTUS. For all we may complain about the SCOTUS, it is as much enshrined in our constitution as our rights are. It is part of making the not-perfect but more perfect union.

23

"With freedom comes responsibility"

One note: Jefferson did not author, nor did he sign the Constitution. He perceived it to be fatally flawed because it lacked term limits and vested too much power in the executive.

http://goldsteinrepublic.com/archives/3609

I hear the "with freedom comes responsibility" rebuttal from people who want to make exceptions to liberty often. I'm not buying it. It's a platitude. I am not responsible for "protecting my government". My responsibility is only to resist it if it gets out of line.

But we can disagree. The Libertarian movement needs to cast a wider net. If we agree on 90% of issues then we are not enemies.

Draft Time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgnqDROFNks&feature=share

.

Hear, O Israel: YHUH our God YHUH one. And thou shalt love YHUH thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Right....Mr. Savage

According to the military 75 per cent of all young adults between 17-24 cannot be accepted into the military mainly due to obesity, criminal records, medical conditions, and lack the fundamental educational requirements, etc.

Of course, foreigners could be signed up and made offers in exchange for citizenship and other agreed to benefits and obligations for example but the security question would always be a concern imo.

donvino

Ever heard of the French

Ever heard of the French Foreign Legion?

23

Republicae's picture

The absence of the draft

The absence of the draft actually works to benefit the government in its ability to easily wage war, for instead of coercion the government offers incentives for men and women to voluntarily join the military. In a similar way, if the people of this country were actually forced to pay for these wars instead of having them financed through borrowing, then these wars would be difficult for the government to prosecute. Of course, a sound money system would definitely put an end to such easy-greasy warmongering!

Now, I am no advocate of the draft believe me, for I was subjected to the draft many years ago, but the draft would most definitely create a different attitude in the minds of the people of this country, so too, would the fact that they actually had to pay for such wars in taxes instead of deficit spending. In fact, if the people of this country actually had to pay for all the programs and projects this government ventures into then things would be very different.

The Founders of this Country eschewed militarism, they thought it to be one of the most dangerous threats to this country and its future.

Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people…. There is also an inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and … degeneracy of manners and of morals…. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.-James Madison

One of the most powerful and ancient instruments of political and social control has been effectively employed in this country, by this government, that instrument is a militaristic ideology that promotes itself as patriotism. It has worked throughout history to create a very cohesive type of attitude that tends to pervade the national consciousness with few dissenters. We have noticed that over the years, in particular the last 10 to 12 years, a definite increase in militarism in this country. What has happened, thanks in large part to the Neo-Con ideology of continual violent intervention, this country seems to now value military action for its own sake. With that transformation in values, we have a far greater propensity to use military power, in fact, it appears that we now seek out war as a matter of policy, but deeper than that, is the fact that this government uses such a policy as a means of social and political control.

You will also notice, that with this increased and amplified militarism, there appear to be a growing paranoia on the part of the political bureaucratic class in Washington. This is being played out in a number of ways, but perhaps the most threatening is the new militaristic mentality that total domestic surveillance is not only necessary, but perfectly proper and acceptable.

So, let this government reinstate the draft, let them tax the people to high heaven to support these illegal wars...the government's free-hand in war would rapidly be called into question by the people of this county.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Michael Weiner never served.

Michael Weiner never served. Too busy chasing herbs and botany degrees in Hawaii and Fiji.

I think talk of reinstatement of the draft is exactly what we

need to watch the support of Ron Paul explode.

hthomas

our boys are all slaves...

...at 18, or even 16 in states that force draft pre-registration at 16 to get a driver's license. I'm still amazed that this continues to go unchallenged. It would seem that constitutionally, it doesn't stand a chance.

"Villains wear many masks, but none as dangerous as the mask of virtue." - Washington Irvin

a country that forces its citizens to defend it . . .

is not worth defending.

ecorob's picture

that is the best quote i've heard...

all year

and i will use that!

thank you

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

deacon's picture

selective service letters

shortly after our kids turned 18 they received
their selective service paper work to be filled
out and sent back in, they did neither
through them away another set was sent with a warning
about not getting college funds ect ect
through those away too,have not had anymore sent
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

did they take a student loan

did they take a student loan from the gov't?

They make you sign the selective service paper on one of those

deacon's picture

no

they have listened about sound money
working off the grid,under the table kind of work
and have no plans of going in debt or taking out a student loan
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

Hoaray!

Good for them!
Give them high fives for me would ya?

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

The Israelis

need Americans to kill Muslims for them so the usual Old Media windbags are "calling" for it and the traitorous Congress will re-instate conscription slavery. And the warvangelicals will send their children to be fodder for the Israeli/Neocon wars so they can get into heaven.

The reason Mikey is bringing

The reason Mikey is bringing this up is because the Neocon(Republicrats) have stated that there will be a draft in effect at around 2015. Mikey's job is to sell it to the masses, just like every other neocon talking head will be doing soon.

I believe that the statement was made by Bill(y) Kristol(not the actor) at a J-Street convention.

We don't need a draft to defend this country

It is only needed to make people go off and defend some other country or other nonsense mission.

The only thing we need to defend this country is lots of guns/weapons spread amongst the people. 150+ million guns against a few thousand invaders! Give me a break.

We barely need most of the US Army. Just the Navy (Marines), Air Force, and some highly skilled units in the Army is all we need to defend this country. Maybe some Reserve or National Guard for training only. No draft needed, EVER!

Record Active Duty and Veteran Suicdies?

Draft everybody, that'll fix it........

If he's so gung ho, why doesn't he finance his own flight to the sandbox and fight the boogiemen, instead of sending America's youth off to be killed and traumatized.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard