Is a recount really worth it?
Submitted by gadsdenfly on Wed, 01/09/2008 - 15:53
There are so many posts on this and other forums about "vote fraud" etc. and wanting to pressure for a recount. Would a recount be worth all the negative media and the perception of "sour grapes". Do we want to come across as cry babies as we go on into the meat of the primary season? Will a possible addtion of a few votes putting RP in 4th matter? Does 4th place really make a difference over 5th place? IMHO no it is NOT worth it. Move on to fight another day.
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ya know, I don't think there is any fraud
But it may be worth it, just to keep them honest, and to let them know that people are watching. And just to see how accurate these things are.
Kind of like a random drug screening.
Yes!
For the sake of the disenfranchised voter! Sorry about the platitude, but it is important to contend fraud, for what it is doing is taking away the citizen's right to vote. Plus...huge difference between fifth and third place in the eye of the public. If Paul finished third, the question on when Paul is going to "hang it up" would not have been asked on CNN.
ABSOLUTLEY!!!
I think we all pretty much had an idea this was going to come up, and personally I think it is worth it to stomp on this butcher of democracy now. Especially while the ink is wet and its still the first leg of this sham they intend to puppeteer (sp?) from behind the scenes once again. Divert a Mil from some commercial venues. If thats not possible I'm fairly sure allot of us would dump that in a week to the campaign if need be.BUT i don't really think the campaign needs that at this moment. Rons a fighter as are all of us who are sick of the deceptions that have managed to undermine the ideals of the American people. We owe it to our children and infact the future of humanity to take a stand. And besides its probably going to generate at least some publicity. All the commercials in prime time aren't gonna mean anything when the outcome is twisted through fraud. In fact the entire effort becomes moot. NO WAY NOT AGAIN. Ok had to get that out. Is it possible for these stinking machines that we simply cant do without (ugh) to be certified or get a simple fresh install? We all or most of us file taxes online or over the phone even and no one even questions that security.
Computerized Fraud?
Another post announced that all of the precincts that did a hand count came up with 15% for Ron Paul, no precinct giving him less than 10%. If this is true, this certainly indicates that the computerized voting machines have been tampered with.
It is not a case of whether or not a recount is worth it, it is a case of exposing that these machines are not reliable. These machines can be tampered with. I suggest that if the post I am referring to is accurate, the Ron Paul campaign needs to bring this to the attention of the people who are responsible to address complaints.
not according to http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php
...there are many precincts with less than 10%
(not saying these numbers are right or wrong)
That's like asking:
Is it really worth standing up for our rights? Would it be worth all the negative media and perception...???
If we're not going to stand up for our rights, why the heck are we even bothering to vote for Ron Paul?
And who gives flying huck if we give the impression of "sour grapes". If this is an issue in NH, you can bet your tushie it's an issue in other states, as well. And what better way to bring it to the world's attention that our voting system is broken than to cry FOUL!
If we don't get this vote thing fixed now, it wouldn't matter if we moved "on to fight another day." We'd get screwed then, too.
We have a right to a fair vote count. Ron Paul has a right to it!!!!
RECOUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the system is broken
speak up! this is it! PAY FOR THE Fing RECOUNT!!!!!!!! get the word out.
Worth it?
Damn right it is! Timing is everything, and the time to recount is now. Never a better chance as already some proof and many states only have Diebold and not a mixture for a good contrast. It must be done and it must be done now!
Bob W., Naples, FL
Agreed, this is the right time to fight.
Once Super Tuesday comes it will be harder to fight. Now is the best time.
Have we gotten so used to getting screwed?!!!
This is about accountability! It's about the LAW, it's about right X wrong! The last 2 elections had fraud and what happened? It got worse!!! Are we going to keep taking this??? Have we invested so much to simply let it pass and hope for the best somewhere else? WAKE UP! This will be happening EVERYWHERE until we put a STOP to this!
Who cares if it costs to do this recount? We MUST do it! Aside from a criminal suit, aren't we also entitled to to a civil suit against these people that acted fraudulently??? They should get a lot of time in jail for treason and lose everything they have over this! Hell, I'd be in favor to shoot the bastards!
JB
"You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. -- all I am offering is the truth, nothing more."
Chip in for a recount
First of all, no one is a troll or "double agent" for simply questioning if a recount is worth it. Jeeze! Some of you guys really need to lighten up. Go for a long walk or something. It's a valid question.
After reading the comments, I think the benefits outweigh the small risk of looking like sore losers. Especially if Obama is also questioning the results (I certainly wonder where his 10% lead in the polls disappeared to).
If we all chip in for a recount, Dr. Paul can rightfully say that his supporters demand a recount. The Granny Warriors have a Chipin just for this. I just donated and I hope you will too. My donation did not change the running total that's displayed, so it is probably much higher than the $390 that it's been stuck on for a while.
Just do it! http://grannywarrior.chipin.com/recount
No, better to have Obama guys do it
Ron Paul's supporters have been called so many different names, if we start crying foul now at such an early stage I think it would be a sign of weakness, that we can't win w/o NH.
HOWEVER, it would be in our best interest to get the Obama guys to start it and we could chip in, but get Obama's name on it not ours.
We should put a 20ft poll between us and Alex Jones, I never listened to his radio show, and I'm sure he's been a great asset for the campaign early on, but now he would simply be hurting us for his 9/11 'truther' deal.
Not to say anything about him, I don't know him, but I know what the notions are of Alex Jones, and this would go right in the hands of a smear campaign.
Better to have Obama do it.
Yes!
If I were an Obama supporter and got snubbed like they did. I would be all over the media screaming for a re-count. That highly unlikely swing in points for Hillary screams FRAUD! We should contact them, it would benefit us too.
Ron Paul All The Way Baby!
sorry for sounding facetious
but i just can't freakin' believe this. it sounds like the u.s. should recruit other developed nations to institute best election practices. what a freakin' joke the u.s. has become. there should be so many checks and balances that these counts shouldn't be disputed. for a simple election as this, vote counting machines should not be required. what is america's example to the world....if you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough. if it isn't elections it's steroids, yada yada yada. as well if results are questioned, the parties should be doing recounts in accordance with their mission and not requiring payment. i've never heard of anything so absurd in all my life.
Pardon me for disagreeing,
Pardon me for disagreeing, this is not about whether we won or lost in NH. This is about vote manipulation!!! This is the issue and it MUST STOP!!!
I believe it is worth it.
The people should know whats going on. It is a major violation of citizens right. You just shrug it off and you just had your existence trumpled.
"He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it." Confucius
"He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it." Confucius
If Sutton was typical...
I recall the vote tallies being broken out by 301 voting districts. If 31 votes short was "typical" -- and hopefully it wasn't -- then that is a potential 9331 vote undercount. Just a difference of 2000 puts us solidly in 4th, instead of 5th, and that assumes that no one else was over counted to make the numbers add up.
So, yes, a recount is clearly in order. It sure looks like "somebody" didn't want Rudy to lose to Ron again.
Definately worth it
Expose these problems now, before feb 5, or before november.
partially agree....
thats why we need a citizen funded recount!! this way RP isnt tied to it politically.
also we cant "move on" if we arent having fair elections, our labors are all but worthless unless we can ensure that every vote is counted correctly!
"Truth is treason in the empire of lies." - Ron Paul
Yeah, we should not challenge the 'Powers"
Yeah, we should not challenge the 'Powers", we might look like cry babies. What kind of logic is that? The recount is not about numbers, it's about accountability and fraud. If it only changes the numbers by 50 votes then there was fraud. If you cant trust the vote counts then what does fighting another day buy you? Nothing, just defeat at a later date. We have to get the truth even if it means losing votes. each and every votes is an American's voice and should count for something more than just a number.
Yes!
Yes!
Enough of this internet grandstanding
If you are really concerned about vote fraud:
1) Find out who is your local election supervisor. Call them.
2) Find out what type of voting system is being used in YOUR precinct.
2a) Is it a paper vote or machine vote?
2b) What type of machine? Is it one of the suspect Diebold machines?
3) Find out how, on election day, you can ensure that all votes in YOUR precinct are counted correctly.
Until you can report back to this forum with this information, stfu.
If you don't live in New Hamsphire, stop bitching. They can fight the battle. Stop calling HQ and wasting their time by repeating the same Internet heresay.
YOUR actions in YOUR precinct just might be the thing that blows the lid on the truth about vote fraud.
This fucking Internet grandstanding has to stop. Wise up.
That's cool
Although I disagree with the need for cursing, you make a VERY valid point.
As Precinct Chairman, I will make this PRIORITY ONE.
Thanks. I'll report back later when I have all the info.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." ~ Margaret Mead
"If you are really concerned
"If you are really concerned about vote fraud:"
I couldn't agree more. This is good information.
"Until you can report back to this forum with this information, stfu."
With all due respect, this will not be tolerated. I'm 32 years old and will not have some random internet poster tell me to STFU.
"by repeating the same Internet heresay."
Actually, the 31 votes have been confirmed. I'm confused by your statement.
Apologies.
Apologies for the language. It was childish and unnecessary.
Yesterday I was upset with the loss, today I'm fired up. We can do this.
stfu is not a cuss word. they need to settle down.
ron paul 2008
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if you build it he will come..........Ron Paul 2012.
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Your ideas are 100% correct.
Your ideas are 100% correct. In fact, I think it's so important it should be it's own post and moved to the main page.
Yes.
It is worth it.
the question is - recount or preparation
i guess what you really mean is
if it's worth investing 67,000$ into a recount which would change the outcome in NH of maybe only a little,
or if the money is not better invested in some serious preparation for the other states.
we know vote fraud is happening and it will happen again, and in the last ten years they got really good in it, so we better come up with a good plan how to prevent it or how to catch them red-handed.
i think http://www.libertybroadcastnetwork.org/ is a good start, but once the results are out, it's almost too late.
we better make sure we have
-people in place that watch the count (videotape it, check the rubbish bins)
-report the result instantly,
-have all the legal papers not to be kicked out of the precincts (being resident and have an official letter that proves them as an 'observer')
-do independent exit polls
-have lawyers in place who are familiar with the process
-webpages prepared to collect the data and compare MSM reports (TV and web)
-and and and ....
let's get going!!!
WHY WOULD YOU EVEN ASK SUCH A THING???
Are you F_ _ _ ing NUTS or something!!! Why would you even ask such a thing? Would it be worth it! They have attempted to steal the election in New Hampshire and are going to attempt to do this in EVERY OTHER remaining state, and you ask would a NH recount be worth it. Will only cost 68 thousand dollars yet will generate MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars of GOOD publicity for Ron Paul and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of BAD PUBLICITY against the NEOCONS AND THEIR ESTABLISHMENT. And even 68 thousand is nothing, NOTHING when Ron Paul is sitting on top of 20 million dollars and another half million raised this last week. IS IT WORTH IT! To even ask such a thing knowing a=how much of a HUGE, MASSIVE political controversey this is going to cause. ALL THAT publicity for Ron Paul! PHENOMENAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you ask "will it be worth it?"
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