6 votes

"Romney wins"? What exactly is going on?

Hey guys, I just did a Google search and a bunch of different sites are saying that Romney has just won the GOP nomination. But folks elsewhere (especially here at Daily Paul) are saying that he did NOT win it. Now I know the mainstream media isn't to be trusted, but I'm a little confused here. What exactly is going on?

PAUL 2012 OR BUST!



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The MSM is just itching to start the all out

freak show of charades, which will transpire between Barry and Willard Obamney! Their ratings are in the toilets, and they are eager to jump the competition to become the premier network presenting their version of pre-scripted Left vs Right, Democrat vs Republican diatribes culmination to the main event, Presidential Mania 2012. Of course, the real winner will be the one who predicts the Paulamaniacs call for their hero, the Legend, Dr. Liberty, Ron Paul, where he will defeat the Fraudster, Imposter, Plasticman Willard Romney!

Willard...

Don't refer to Romney Sachs as "Willard". That reminds me too much of Martin Sheen's character from Apocalypse Now, one hell of a movie.

Don't do that! ;)

"We're going to take the government out of your bedroom, your bloodstream, your brain, your bladder, your business, your billfold, your back pockets, your bingo halls and your Internet bulletin boards." -Gatewood Galbraith

northstar's picture

Romney won a phone call

Not the nomination

Real eyes realize real lies

We want our country back

Every year is a year for Ron Paul!

Tampa will decide who wins the nomination, nothing else.

Tampa will decide who wins the nomination, nothing else.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

Has Romney won the Republican nomination?

No, the nominee will be chosen at the National Convention at the end of August, by a majority vote of the assembled national delegates.

However, looking at the number of delegates that have already been allocated by contests that have already happened, it is in fact true that Romney is either near or beyond 1144 delegates.

These figures are mostly accurate. If you doubt the figures cited for any State or territory, first go to that State's page on green papers and read how delegates are allocated. Then get the facts about the results of the primary or the caucus. DYODD. The delegate process is complicated, but it's also transparent.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/R-HS.phtml

It is also true that some number of Romney delegates are secretly Ron Paul supporters (stealth delegates). However, contrary to various ideas which have been circulating on the DP recently, bound delegates are just that: bound. Our stealth delegates who are bound to Romney, however many there turn out to be, will have no choice but to vote for Romney on the first round at the convention. If they ignore the rules and vote Paul or abstain, that vote simply will not be counted, and they will be removed from the Convention, which means they won't be able to vote on the VP pick (where no delegates are bound to vote one way or the other), or rule changes, or the platform: things which are important for the future of our movement beyond this one campaign, things which should not be jeopardized for a completely symbolic and futile effort to ignore the binding rules and vote Paul in the 1st round.

So, has Romney won? No, but he will. That is an unpleasant fact, but it is a fact. If people don't come to grips with it before Tampa, they'll be in for a nasty surprise.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

thegreenpapers

is listing delegates that have yet to be voted on.

It's little more than guessing.

Could you elaborate?

Which delegate figures for which State or territory are incorrect? You say that it lists delegates "that have yet to be voted on," which ones?

I am aware of several errors myself. Green papers lists delegates for Iowa based on the proportion of the popular vote: this is wrong, Iowa won't elect any delegates until later, and none of them are bound by the popular vote. The same with Washington State. The Green Papers awards Romney 6 delegates for Iowa, and 16 for Washington State. Suppose that we sweep all of those delegates, and Romney actually gets zero in both States. Take the listed total for Romney delegates (1148) and subtract 22, and he still has 1126.

There are several large primary States coming up (e.g. CA and NJ), which Romney will win, and where the delegates are bound to the winner, either winner-take-all or proportional. Romney will get several hundred more delegates before the National Convention.

The math doesn't lie.

N.B. The green papers also counts 72 Pennsylvania delegates as uncommitted, even though we know that most (if not all of them) are Romney people. And, it also does not count many of the "superdelegates," who are party hacks that will overwhelmingly support Romney.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

The Republican National Committee does not recognize binding

The state party, or even state law, might impose sanctions on you but the national party did allow a Romney supporter in 2008 to not vote for Mccain on the first round even though he was "bound" to Mccain he cast his ballot for Romney.

Response

"the national party did allow a Romney supporter in 2008 to not vote for Mccain on the first round even though he was "bound" to Mccain he cast his ballot for Romney."

The delegate in question was originally bound to Romney. Romney won all Utah delegates in 2008. When Romney dropped out, the Utah State Republican Party attempted to rebind all of its delegates to McCain, in violation of party rules. One delegate protested. The RNC intervened and agreed that the Utah GOP had no right to rebind a delegate. Thus, at the convention, the delegate was allowed to vote for Romney, to whom he was originally bound. This episode in no way suggests that all delegates are unbound.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/UT-R.phtml

...

What about the now-infamous letter from the RNC attorney?

The passage which is always quoted ("The RNC does not recognize a state’s binding of national delegates, but considers each delegate a free agent who can vote for whoever they choose") is not contained in the letter. Those words were not written by the RNC attorney.

However, she did write these words:

"During the debate on the “Unit Rule” amendment, there was some concern raised that the new language would be interpreted by some to prohibit the individual states from adopting rules that would bind or allocate delegates to specific candidates. The proponents, however, gave assurances that it was not their intention to effect
any “legal or “moral” obligation of the delegates. Based upon the concern raised that this provision would be *erroneously* read to prohibit states to bind or allocate delegates a concerted effort was made to defeat the amendment."

The entire letter can be found here:
http://republicanselect.blogspot.com/#!/2012/05/rnc-counsel-on-rule-38-of-rnc-rules.html

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

No meat left on that dead horse

Ron Paul will be on the ballot in Tampa, and any delegate can vote for him.

All else is fear mongering.

Again, care to elaborate?

...substantiate what you're saying with some facts?

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

You Mustn't Read too Many Threads Here

How about Rule 38?

The decision regarding the 2008 delegate revealed that the RNC legal counsel declared that no delegate is bound. Nowhere in the Legal Counsel's response does it mention "rebinding"

*sigh*

"What about Rule 38?"

Rules 38 says that no State can bind ALL of its delegates to the same candidate. States get around the rule by having at least 3 unbound delegates (every State does this). Rule 38 does not mean that all delegates are unbound. The letter from the RNC attorney, which I linked in my other response, clearly states this about rule 38.

"The decision regarding the 2008 delegate revealed that the RNC legal counsel declared that no delegate is bound."

No, it did not. Again:

"During the debate on the “Unit Rule” amendment, there was some concern raised that the new language would be interpreted by some to prohibit the individual states from adopting rules that would bind or allocate delegates to specific candidates. The proponents, however, gave assurances that it was not their intention to effect any “legal or “moral” obligation of the delegates. Based upon the concern raised that this provision would be *erroneously* read to prohibit states to bind or allocate delegates a concerted effort was made to defeat the amendment."

The entire letter can be found here:
http://republicanselect.blogspot.com/#!/2012/05/rnc-counsel-on-rule-38-of-rnc-rules.html

I'll repeat for emphasis: "Based upon the concern raised that this provision would be *erroneously* read to prohibit states to bind or allocate delegates a concerted effort was made to defeat the amendment."

What do you think this statement means? It clearly states that the unit rules amendment (rule 38) DOES NOT mean that all delegates are unbound.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

The truth

Romney has not come anywhere near clinching the Republican Nomination, in any sense. The nominee is chosen by a vote at the Republican National Convention in August. The only thing out there now is delegate estimates and speculation.

For "some" reason, the MSM has decided they want Mitt Romney to win, and so they are using completely irrational estimates just so they can say it's over and crown Romney King GOP.

In reality, this is far from over, and anyone could win the GOP Nomination; however, they will need the support of 1,144 delegates at the Republican National Convention. Ron Paul could get this. So could Romney. We'll see.

For a more accurate estimate of each nominee's delegates, check this site out: http://thereal2012delegatecount.com/

Thanks!

Thanks friend! That was a real morale booster.

Sad to know that my own state went to Romney but sometimes you got to lose a battle to win the war!

PAUL 2012 OR BUST!

"We're going to take the government out of your bedroom, your bloodstream, your brain, your bladder, your business, your billfold, your back pockets, your bingo halls and your Internet bulletin boards." -Gatewood Galbraith

It could be worse...

It could be worse, you could be from my state, the only one that went to Gingrich (Georgia). YUCK!!!!

RickStone

Very true!

What is it with a lot of folks in us Southern states? I'm still trying to comprehend why they don't identify with Dr. Paul's ideas more...

"We're going to take the government out of your bedroom, your bloodstream, your brain, your bladder, your business, your billfold, your back pockets, your bingo halls and your Internet bulletin boards." -Gatewood Galbraith

I really don't...

I really don't know, I don't understand it myself.

RickStone

Perhaps?

Well, the hijacked elements of the Tea Party and all the evangelical neoconservatives who think bombing Arabs is "what Jesus would do", certainly don't help matters, unfortunately :(

"We're going to take the government out of your bedroom, your bloodstream, your brain, your bladder, your business, your billfold, your back pockets, your bingo halls and your Internet bulletin boards." -Gatewood Galbraith

Get onboard we have a chance at busting this convention

on the 1st ballot but our national delegates need to get on the same page and seek out the other candidates delegates and free their minds with the law and truth.

Federal Laws Proving Binding of Delegates Is Illegal!
http://www.dailypaul.com/236908/federal-laws-proving-binding...

November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

Blow up your T.V., Throw away your paper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N4HPj85vjw

Blow up your T.V. throw away your paper
Go to the country, build you a home
Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches
Try an find Jesus on your own

Don't listen to the MSM. They lie. Why do you think CNN's ratings have taken such a drastic dump? Because it is all propaganda. Stick with Daily Paul and we will direct you to the real news.

Most excellent advice liz

:-)

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

Sorry y'all

Sorry if I got a few folks upset/riled up, just didn't quite know what to make of it. ;)

"We're going to take the government out of your bedroom, your bloodstream, your brain, your bladder, your business, your billfold, your back pockets, your bingo halls and your Internet bulletin boards." -Gatewood Galbraith