-7 votes

Lets talk about GOD

Some believe - others dont. I believe in logic, reason:

I believe in God based on cause and effect, but I accept that I cannot come to believe something that I have not witnessed - something that holds no facts. 

While I will never be able to say honestly that I believe that Jesus is the son of God, I will also never be able to say that Jesus is not the son of God, because I just dont know. This goes for all religions. I have humbled myself enough to be able to admit that I just do not know. I do, however, try to see the world through the eyes of Jesus. Jesus of compassion, of honor, of love... as I'm sure that I try to see the world through the eyes of other prominent 'prophets', to one degree or another.

Though, all in all, my belief system is not based on a book writen thousands of years ago, or even hundreds of years ago; my belief system is based on liberty, on love and on peace. Things that I've deemed righteous - through logic, reason.

If GOD is as righteous as religions make GOD out to be, then GOD would be enthusiastically understanding, anyways. And if there is a heaven - then GOD would not be justified to leave me out... as opposed to who? Someone just because they were able to buy into a farytale over someone that wasn't? Thats not justice. And if that is GOD's position... then GOD is no better than me. Why should GOD be there. 

'All religion, my friend, is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination, and poetry.' - Edgar Allen Poe


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You mean like...

All the backstabbing immature cheap shot downvotes cast against any reply that even hints of a nonbeliever? I could prove this to you all day long from my posts alone. Hypocrisy.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

I'm no hypocrite

I will defend your right to be a non-Christian all day long. If good, productive posts of yours have been downvoted in the past just because you're not a Christian, then I apologize that such a thing ever happened to you. We're on the same team, my friend.

Ron Paul 2012

Equal time

It is not just my posts,it is every post made from anybody that hints to be a non-believer. If you truly feel I am allowed to believe as I wish, without judgement, then you would be one of the very rare individuals of faith like my friend Bear below. Mutual respect would be the very cure this world needs, Yet, I fear thousands of years of indoctrination of the different faiths will never let this happen. Everyone is taught to hate all others but their own or lack there of. This IS the cause of every war and conflict throughout the history of mankind,Fact. Live and let live to be truly free!

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Couldn't agree with you more

I absolutely feel that you should be allowed to believe as you wish, without judgement! This is the liberty movement, after all :) I must admit, in retrospect, my first post on this thread was a bit inflammatory itself. My apologies.

Indeed, hate and indoctrination are never the answer.

Your reply is very wise and honest

You must always be passionate about your faith and beliefs so no apology is due,But more important is that you are also wise enough to not be trapped by man's interpretation of the very faith you believe in or act apon.

To question interpretation is not a weakness or a sin. You, in your heart above all else, know what is right and what is wrong even if it is interpreted to be gospel. Sometimes it is interpreted incorrectly and used to justify an action incorrectly.

Follow your instincts before you follow anyone elses interpretation of faith,it will serve you better and can in no way be deemed as wrong. I thank you for the second look, It shows great wisdom, honesty and integrity. Please have a great day.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.



If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Non-Christian=Bad, Christian=Good

Non-Christian= Suppression and Persecution.
Christian= All ideas and indocrination Ok to spam without question.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Weigh In

Hi my dear friend. How are you doing these days? I jumped on the band wagon in this post. I wasn't thinking I was spamming and sure wouldn't want you thinking of me that way. I was thinking the OP wanted to have an open discussion, so of course, me being interested in God, I weighed in with my beliefs. I also have a comment at http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2513154 regarding the USS Liberty. Would you care to weigh in on it? I am wondering what people think on this subject. I had never before heard about it.

How is your family doing? We have had some nice rains here and a cold snap. My garden is growing and the birds are singing.

Your friend, bear

I am always honored to catch up with you my friend.

Since we have met here,I have always had and gained respect for your very open minded and accepting discussions about faith. You are truly one of a kind and deserve great respect for allowing others to have their own feelings about faith without judgement. I will say again that I am very proud to have met you. Considering your personal position in life, this has very great unmatchable integrity to say the least. I would never judge you for believing what you believe because I know you always do the same for everyone else. I greatly respect this and am honored to know you for this rare quality you have as an individual with faith, Thank You!

All good on this end,We have had two of the Grandkids over since Sunday. Great! Had a great time but worn out! Lol. Good to hear all is blooming there, Are the Bees coming around?

The USS Liberty,Let me see if I can round you up somemore reference links to check out. It was quite a turning point in history for sure. Thank you very much for sharing your very valued friendship with me my friend. Be back!

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

I am so glad to hear back

I am so glad to hear back from you! I believe you told me you were 50? Imagine having those grandkids all the time! I am 49 with 8 & 10 year old boys. God gave us our own children late in life and I am tired all the time and still trying to figure out how to cook enough!!!

Someone down voted me on my USS liberty comment, but didn't leave a comment themselves so I may be very off base on my statements, but do not know how as of yet. I was unsure how to ask to be educated without sounding like I wanted to be told what to think! LOL

Yes, we have bees here. I have a lot of wildflowers and they love them. Everthing blooming is about a month early though so I am not sure what that means for summer and fall.

The downvotes

Were because it invovled Israel:


To some this is truth to others it is Anti-Semitism.

And as always it continues....

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Thank you for your weigh in

Thank you for your weigh in and the link. Have a great weekend, Bear :)

You too

You are welcome and thank you. Good luck with dinner for the boys, I feel for you! Lol.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Thank you for the life rope

Thank you for the life rope on the USS Liberty. Open mouth and insert foot, lesson learned-hopefully. I should have stayed on the God topic. Hotdogs tonight at a birthday party. I thought we would grill steaks and have a nice quiet evening at home, but then I got the birthday reminder, so we are off for hotdogs. At least no cooking for me! LOL

I did it a few times...

Myself, Lol. Keep asking the hard questions even if they are misunderstood. You are doing absolutely fantastic considering our first conversations about you being new to forums. You have gained the respect of the community here and become a part of the unsolvable puzzle. Please have a great time at the party!,nice to get a break once in awhile! Lol.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Stop listening to old belief

Stop listening to old belief systems and superstitions that have been changed over time by everyone adding their two cents to what may have been some original truth.

Even the Bible has been altered by every King who wanted to divorce his wife and needed the sanction of the church.

Really read the words of Jesus, and not just accept church doctrine. "I and my father are ONE". We are also ONE with God.

Just listen within yourself for the truth. Even Jesus said to go into your closet and speak to God in private, and not to make a big public display. The God who sees and hears in private will answer you in private. Just say, "beautiful Cosmic Spirit, God, "please tell me what I need to know". Then wait for the answer. It will come in some form or another.

Denise B's picture

So if that is the case

where did you get any of your information for the statements you just made? Where can you point to that says to "listen within yourself for the truth?" - or that "we are also ONE with God". Did that come from somewhere or did you just make it up? The problem with everyone looking to themselves to know the truth is that you will come up with a million different versions of the truth - while only one can be right. Especially when we know by simple observation that the heart of man is full of wickedness and deceit - just look around at what this movement has been up against for your proof of that.

And by the way, if the bible has been altered by "every King who wanted to divorce his wife and needed sanction of the church", why then is divorce still a sin in the bible, outside of infidelity? Just saying...

You made some really good

You made some really good points. In regard to sanctions from the church, try King Henry the 8th. And you might also Google books that were removed from the Bible in history because they did not agree with church doctrine. St. Thomas might be one. Priests know about the books but they do not tell their congregation all they know.

As to truth, there is your left brain, mind, which is ego based and full of worldly chatter. That part of your brain will give you all kinds of false information based on theories. Hence, lots of different truths. Your left brain can be like a monkey on your back jumping up and down; replaying bits of song, torturing you with worries, and dredging up old memories. Realize it is a good storage place for data, but that is not YOU.

There is also your right brain, which is spiritually connected to your "Higher Self" and to God. You are a much higher being than you realize. You choose to have a third dimensional Earth experience. When you incarnate into a body you forget who you are, and you are less energetic than your Higher Self, which is who you really are.

The forgetting is for the purpose of experiencing complete separation from the universe and God. You wanted that experience. In your higher form you are connected consciously to God and all things, like being in heaven. If you delve into higher consciousness you will become aware of who you really are, as Jesus and Buddha did. It is for anyone who seeks the awareness.

A Yogi pursues this awareness for a lifetime, and many become enlightened, like Jesus and Buddha. That's just a way of saying you remember who you are and can connect to your higher self again, which will download information into your mind. That information may be a symbol or light seen in your spiritual eye, a dream, or it may be whispered in your mind, or given to you as you are typing in your journal while listening for guidance. That is your source of truth, your own higher self. The door to your higher self will open if you sincerely seek it. It has happened to many. And yes there are Angels, and they watch over you and long for you to seek them and ask for their help.

As Jesus has said "Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will open."

Are we having fun yet?

God will be justified

to leave you out of heaven when Ron Paul wins the Presidency and makes property rights worth something again. Afterall, God built heaven himself, it is his home,and if he wants to let someone else in and not you, well, that's liberty.


If God doesn't exist then you're theory is blown out of the water. If he does exist, then "thank God" that getting into heaven doesn't hinge on approval by people like you.

Do you think talking like that really motivates people to become Christian? Isn't that one of the main objectives of being Christian? To save other people?

May the Lord have mercy on your biased and hateful soul. I will pray for you.

This may blow your minds,

because the truth is that the Spirit of the Living God abides in each and every human being on this planet. And, the most wondrous part of this is that our Heavenly Creator, through his Son, Jesus (the Christ or anointed one), plans to eventually bring everyone back to our previous enlightened state of being. Our rightful place has been usurped by Lucifer, and we are now being awakened by our Heavenly Father to know who we are and what our true heritage is - which is to have eternal life in the Kingdom of God here on the earth. There are many who do not understand the stirrings within their inner man, but eventually they will. For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." Romans 14:11

"Nothing is as it appears; everything is smoke and mirrors"

Not exactly

The Bible is very clear about who does and who does not have the Spirit of God within them.
Those who are born again, they are the sons of God and the Spirit of God witnesses with their spirit that they are the Sons of God.

There are also those who have not the Spirit of God as stated
in the book of Jude 1:19

Jesus also came to save those who would believe on Him.
The Bible is absolute and very clear that the majority of people throughout time, would not have Christ to be their Lord and Master.

Only a remnant will be saved.
The rest will be cast away from His presence.

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

Let's not and focus on reality.

Let's stop fractional reserve lending and central banking as it exists, end the wars and aggression, reduce government, get people growing their own food again, caring for their fellow humans and the peace and prosperity we all want will come. Sorry, but the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are not part of the movement to better humanity and make it a better place for all living things.



you're not talking about God, you're talking about your belief/lack of belief and on the existence.

bring on the god haters!


Denise B's picture

It is exactly because God is righteous

that you will not be allowed into heaven unless you repent and believe on His son, Jesus Christ. If there is one thing that the bible is very clear about, it is the fact that God is a Holy, Just and Righteous being. He is incapable of sin and can not tolerate it or excuse it without becoming unrighteous himself. Let me explain.... God is the righteous judge of all things. Just imagine if someone broke into your home and robbed you and beat you to within an inch of your life. Several months later, they catch the guy and bring him into court and he looks at the judge and says, "I'm really sorry I shouldn't have done that I was having a bad day and I don't know what I was thinking". Would you consider this particular judge to be good or righteous if he then said, "Well okay then, you're sorry so you can go now. Have a nice weekend." Of course you would not, you would yell and scream to everyone you know about what a rotten judge that was.

Well, the same is true for God. He set down His rules - The 10 Commandments for us to follow. The bible tells us that failure to keep God's rules is sin and is punishable by death (can also be physical, but primarily means spiritual - being cut off from God). God can not portray Himself to be Holy and Righteous and Just if he ignores His own edicts and laws any more than a human judge would be considered righteous if he does the same. If by even human standards it is considered unjust to ignore violations of the law, how much more so by the Holy, Eternal and Righteous God. True justice always requires punishment when laws are broken. Always.

And this is where Jesus comes in. God created all of us perfect and without sin until the Fall occurred and Adam & Eve disobeyed God and invited in the knowledge of sin. From that point on, human beings became incapable of living sinless lives - The bible tells us that there is not one righteous among us, not one. You think not? Have you every told a lie, no matter how small? Have you ever taken anything that did not belong to you, no matter how insignificant? Have you ever used the Lord's name in vain (OMG would be an example of that)? Just based on those three questions alone, if answered honestly, would convict you of being a lying, thieving, blasphemer - any of which is punishable by death, per God's owns laws.

Back to Jesus again. We know from the Bible that God truly loves His Creation and does not desire that any should perish, yet at the same time, He must stay true to who He is and cannot just ignore our lawbreaking without punishment being inflicted. So He sent His Son (who was in fact God Himself) to come here and live a sinless life, that we never could, and take upon Himself the punishment and death that we deserved, so that we would not have to. That is why the bible says that He became sin for us. God's just requirement of punishment for sin was met, it was taken out upon His own Son who took it upon His shoulders willingly. Imagine facing a long jail sentence because you owed a million dollar fine that you could never pay and then imagine that a person comes in, that owes you nothing, and sells everything he has to pay your fine. That is what Jesus did for us who believe in Him.

All He asks in return, is that you repent for your sins (feel remorse for them and turn away from them the best that you can) and believe in Him name. Seems like a pretty fair exchange. We give Him all of our sin and he in return gives us redemption and salvation.

I hope this helps to clarify for you. I pray that you will have ears to hear.

Well said Denise B. Jesus

Well said Denise B.

Jesus came to open the kingdom of heaven to everyone.Unlike those of the time that shut it up and don't go in themselves.To give sight to the blind and blind those that see.Just as John the baptist preached repentance,Jesus expanded on it.No more vain offerings of sacrificial burnings of animals or incense,but of a repentant heart.His offer is of love and care but also of judgement and condemnation.Turn from your old ways and take the yoke of the Lord and you are born anew.Few will enter the kingdom of God but to strive for it is a fruitful endeavor..."thy kingdom come,thy will be done"..."till I make thine
enemies thy footstool."

13 No servant can serve two masters; for either he shall hate the one, and love the other, or else he shall lean to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and riches. - Luke 16

By this logic unicorns and fairies exist as well

and why stop at 1 god maybe there are more gods than there are people.

I know that they do despite

I know that they do despite that I can't prove it to you. I'm eagerly awaiting their instruction manual so I know how to live my life. That way I can quote it to people who don't believe in fairies and unicorns as proof that my beliefs are a reality. Unfortunately, however, the unicorn lobby in Congress is not very strong. That's why our world is so messed up today.



"Where liberty is, there is my country." -Benjamin Franklin