37 votes

Should Ron Paul Supporters Apply for Food Stamps?

(edit)

With the recent 'controversy' over Dr. Paul receiving and accepting his Social Security Insurance payments, I've 'bumped' this thread back into the conversation:

QUESTION:

Should Ron Paul supporters apply for food stamps, housing assistance, energy assistance, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera???

(Previous content referencing Atlas Shrugged has been submitted as a comment below)

http://www.dailypaul.com/237450/should-ron-paul-supporters-a...

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In the past I would never

In the past I would never sell myself to this government.

Today? I'm ready to apply for every program out there.

It's going to collapse. No doubt. When it does it would be useful to have squirreled away extra for family and friends.

Ron Paul SHOULD take his money back.

And no. You'd be the most shameful person in the world to take a handout from the government. It's stealing. Plain and simple.

When did common sense become a super power? –Patrick F. Holman

It isn't his money. He didn't pay into anything.

He should have used this as a golden opportunity to EXPOSE the SSA scam for what it is, a tax, and a welfare check.

Instead, he's not only lost any chance of setting that error right, but he abandoned core principles in doing so.

How can you trust someone that abandons their principles?

that's not true--

we began paying into SS almost 50 years ago--

when a downturn in the industry left us with only part-time work we had no choice but to start the SS coming. We know exactly how much $ we've paid into SS, and there's no great chance of us getting it all back--

Yes, we were stupid to pay into it all those years, but when we began working and paying into $$ voices against SS were very silent--

and we were young--and dumb.

We could go hungry and live in the streets in order not to use the $ we paid for almost 50 years; would have show that we have principles?

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Sorry to rattle your cage, but you have never paid into Social

Security.

No one has.

You have no account in any bank anywhere.

You have no contract.

You have no insurance policy with them.

There is no "trust fund."

Congress imposed a tax.

You paid it.

That's all.

Now, they concocted a giant lie to get you to agree to the scam, but that doesn't change the nature of what has happened.

If you did really pay into anything, it would have been declared unconstitutional back in 1937.

Might I suggest a search here on the DP or elsewhere for "Helvering."

It is the Supreme Court decision that upheld the Social Security Act of 1935 on the grounds that it was NOT a mandatory or even voluntary insurance scheme, but rather simply a tax.

The Court specifically noted that the Act does not mandate checks be paid out, but rather merely authorizes the Secretary of the Treasury to issue them if he deems it in the interests of the "General Welfare."

The tax and the benefits are NOT tied together in law and Constitutionally cannot be.

No Congress can bind a future Congress to continue to appropriate money for anything.

Congress could either end the checks or the tax tomorrow and keep the other one and have no issues as far as "the program" is concerned. That is because there is no "program" it is merely a tax and an authorization at discretion to issue a welfare check.

Specifically also, the Court noted that the tax is NOT earmarked in anyway (as no tax can be) for the purpose of issuing the checks. The money collected via FICA is deposited in the General Fund and is available for Congress to spend on whatever it deems necessary, just as any other tax is.

Welcome to reality.

Yes, why not?

Yes, why not?

I thought about it, so I could give it to others.

I don't require much 'income' and could probably qualify. And I know people that I could help.

But I just DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE GOVERNMENT'S BED.

“Don’t believe them, don’t fear them, don’t ask anything of them”—the three rules made famous among Soviet prisoners by Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Hear, hear!

I don't know if I'd qualify or not, but I do know that at this point I am not in bad enough shape to trade what's left of my privacy for government aid. I certainly would, and do, encourage people I know that are in dire straits to get whatever help they can if they don't have a problem being under that microscope. We are forced to pay taxes and we don't get any say at all where that money goes. We don't give consent for Fed printing or government borrowing. They are crushing this country and its people. People should be getting every cent they qualify for if they want it. It's money better spent than DHS bullets and NSA spying and IRS auditors. Ron Paul voted "NAY" on every spending bill and still added earmarks to the bills because someone was going to get that money. It might as well be his constituents. Some say that's hypocrisy. I say it's surviving in a system that hates us.

what recent controversy?

Food stamps? for yourself no. If you are disabled and have kids as a bridge maybe until you figure out which (religious) groups out there will help with a hand up or rebate.

Thread is year and a half old.

'controversy' about a year old.

"Damn the pandas, full steam ahead"

-Admiral David Farragut

necessary

bump

"Damn the pandas, full steam ahead"

-Admiral David Farragut

Government assistance is not

Government assistance is not help. The money is being taken forcefully. You have to ask for it, and it's just plain wrong. If I was in need and someone wanted to reach out and specifically help me, personally I wouldn't take it, but I think others accepting that kind of help isn't wrong.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

Yes, but....

Liberty lovers should buy things like sacks of whole grains, produce by the case and can, dehydrate and freeze it... Don't be stupid. If you are on food stamps, you STILL need a garden or you are at their mercy the day they say "Hand over your gun, or no food" or "Pee in this cup or no food" or "Piss on this Constitution or no food."
I agree with pawnstorm, said so years ago. Get on every government program you can. The ship is sinking, the banksters are sucking all the wealth they can out of the people, the people need to fight fire with fire. IT IS BETTER THAN A GUN FIGHT. If we REALLY want to end the Fed, we need to suck all the FRNs out of the system that we can and convert them to silver. You can't do that with food stamps, but you can with any money that is freed up by using the food stamps for food.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

For information purposes

If any Dailypaul member needs help with the above list Chris rattled off please send me a private message. I don't know of any quick fix for your plight but I do have friends in a lot of places that will work hard to help you. No promises, i'm just another person working on your behalf to increase your odds of success.

As a matter of fact, we should take care of each other where we are able. Get to know the DP members in your community or State and build a support system.

Peace
DEX

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

From the comments it looks

From the comments it looks like half the DP is or has been on foodstamps.

If I can be frank, people face difficulties and have the right to take the help of whatever means are available to support themselves and their family. As for the self riteous people who are judging them, they are exactly the ideologues divorced from reality I despise.

So the answer to the OP is an emphatic YES! Anyone that tells you otherwise is not someone you should be listening to.

Your opinion disgusts me.

This is the worst comment from the daily paul i've ever read. You sir, are a coward, and a lazy fool. Self Righteous people? Really? You're the self righteous one! You are stealing from someone who worked hard for their money and you are justifying it with lame excuses. EVERYONE faces difficulties in life, and do NOT have the right to TAKE from ANYONE. If your reality is laziness and privileged entitlements, you have no right to be on this forum. Saying, "Anyone that tells you otherwise is not someone you should be listening to..." is the most arrogant, self righteous, and insolent utter nonsense I've EVER read before. Shame on you.

When did common sense become a super power? –Patrick F. Holman

What a Governmental response!

And DAMN those IDEA people you call ideologues divorced from reality.

Do you sir support the reality CREATED by your governmental ideas?

We TRIED to get a man of liberty elected.

We gave our time, effort and money, but we lost BIG time. Didn't even come CLOSE.

It's obvious the country wants nothing to do with liberty.

CONSIDER THIS:

Our government gives away billions upon billions in foreign aid each year, while our own country goes broke.

Things like the Earned Income Tax Credit which gives single mothers nearly $4000 each year for each child she has out of wedlock

So while it may be anti-intuitive for liberty-based people, perhaps this is an alternative way to fight back...

Take your Social Security, food stamps, unemployment, Medicare, Medicaid etc etc etc.

Change the system from another angle. Just hold your breath and proceed until it all collapses.

No more arguments. Just agree with everyone that big-government is the answer.

Let them advocate for their wars, occupations, interventions, welfare, big-government etc.

I'm done arguing and TRYING to teach people - all the while being considered a nut-job who supported that "crazy old man" for president.

So just quietly take anything you can (which they've stolen from you all your life anyway).

Even my own girlfriend is tired of my political rantings and doesn't want to hear about it anymore.
She got pissed at me the other day about it.

So I started singing:
"We're gonna spread happiness; We're gonna spread freedom; Obama's gonna change it; Obama's gonna lead 'em; We're gonna change it; And rearrange it; We're gonna change the world.

So in the style of the war-mongering RAT McCain (who said at his 2008 GOP nomoination; "Fight with me my friends - FIGHT with me, FIGHT with me...) I now say...

"SING with me, my friends - SING with me"...
"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtGrp5MbzAI

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

akin to sticking one's hand down a lion's throat

x

I look at it this way. They

I look at it this way. They stole it from you to begin with. So you are just getting it back. I own my own business. For 20 years I paid into the unemployment insurance fund. I never had 1 person claim unemployment. When 2008 hit and there was very little work I laid off 4 people. The jerks then raised my unemployment rate. That is the way I look at it. Maybe if they had not stole it to begin with you would not need to get it back now.

The insurance companies always win

When they don't you pay!
In 1984 I was hit head-on by a car that came over the center median on I-95 in Southern CT.
I was in the far right lane of 4 lanes on my side. I was traveling below the speed limit because I was slowing down for a car that had caught fire on my right - in the break down lane.
The perps came over the center and totaled my new car.
A week later MY INSURANCE company dropped me!
They had to pay because the other driver was uninsured.
So I lose all the cash I put down on a new car, the car loan gets paid off, I have no car and no car insurance. I was pissed.

Insurance, and social security are different.

I'm sorry they raised your rates, but food stamps are completely different.

When did common sense become a super power? –Patrick F. Holman

I'm not going to tell anybody what they should

and shouldn't do.

What I will say is that although I more than qualify for food stamps and other assistance, my wife and I have chosen not to apply. I know too many people who are living cozy comfy off of government assistance and it keeps them from doing anything significant or purposeful with their life. I have a friend right now who dreams of starting her own official daycare but she won't because the extra income will cut her off from the government teat.

I've chosen to rely on other people when I need help. It causes me to give back when I have abundance and others around me lack. Every government handout comes with hidden strings attached.

Oppose government charity...

Charity begins at home. Family, relatives and friends are the initial resources for charity. Next would be churches or other private forms of assistance. These should privide for immediate needs such as food, clothing and shelter. Assistance to get back on ones own feet in finding work should be available also. These are what should be used. Relocating to areas where work is available should not be ignored. We the people need to be weaned off of the indiscriminate distribution of money, goods and services.

IF the desire is to take from others with no regards to personal improvement or reciprocity then we will not get out from the over spending of which our government is involved.

The night is far spent, the day is at hand.
And those who have not heard shall understand.

tasmlab's picture

Aspire to be stunning examples of free, productive and virtuous

We should all aspire to be stunning examples of free, productive and virtuous peoples who contribute and interact voluntarily. Both for our own happiness and to demonstrate to other people.

Why muck around in the bottom of the moral dog-bowl that is food stamps? Who wants even go meet with some greasy local bureaucrat and fill out a bunch of tedious forms and explain what a profound friendless loser you are to get a couple hundred dollars worth of groceries?

This is like the ugly, ticky-tacky minutia that libertarians should just wipe there hands off and just try to stay away from. If you see a piece of garbage, throw it away - don't put it on your head and tell everybody it's your new hat.

I've enjoyed everyone's posts about restitution and 'you paid for it' and 'let's tip the cart' and the comparisons to using the public roads, etc., and thought they were all valid and great discussion board posts. But at the end of the day, who would want to use this much intellectual contortion to go grovel to the government for food?

And if you must, then fine. But don't spend too much time explaining how it relates to libertarianism in any neat way. That's what I'm thinking.

Currently consuming: Harry Browne, Free Domain Radio; JT Gatto and Holt; Wii U

tasmlab's picture

Two disclosures

I was laid off about 10 years ago and went on UI for three months. Filling out the form isn't so indignant when you need the cash!

I toyed with the idea of applying for food stamps for many of the reasons cited below - I paid for them, it would help propel the system toward failure, it was free money from a corrupt entity, etc. But I quickly dismissed the idea because I would've had to lie massively about my income and feared they may bust me for fraud.

Currently consuming: Harry Browne, Free Domain Radio; JT Gatto and Holt; Wii U

If you are a Ron Paul

If you are a Ron Paul follower, you should file for food stamps, and say it doesn't take effect unless your neighbor does too - this is a food stamp earmark.

If you are a follower of Ayn Rand - an 'Objectivist', you should say you will never live for another, or require another to live for you - write a few volumes worth of books on it, and then apply for food stamps anyway.

This is the key difference between Ron Paul followers and Objectivists.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

never

Do whatever it takes, use it only as the very last resort. Hell i would put up an honest person for a month if they needed it, they could help on the farm, earn some dough, and get back on their feet. Just ask, and pray, and you will receive!

free state project member

If you do not

dive under the pinnate, you get no candy ;-(

Instead of pulling the cart or riding in the cart, let's just tip the cart!

Jeffro

Personally,

I have no use for them.

A signature used to be here!