37 votes

Should Ron Paul Supporters Apply for Food Stamps?

(edit)

With the recent 'controversy' over Dr. Paul receiving and accepting his Social Security Insurance payments, I've 'bumped' this thread back into the conversation:

QUESTION:

Should Ron Paul supporters apply for food stamps, housing assistance, energy assistance, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera???

(Previous content referencing Atlas Shrugged has been submitted as a comment below)

http://www.dailypaul.com/237450/should-ron-paul-supporters-a...




Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

There are different ways to fight this...

First of all, we tried as hard as we could to get a man of liberty elected. We gave our time, effort and money but we lost BIG time.

It's obvious the country doesn't want liberty.

There's nothing more we can do to turn things around. Why? Because we are no longer ignorant of who runs things.

It's the banking/military/industrial complex which extend BEYOND the U.S.

It's the foreign aid we give by the billions each year while our own country struggles with solvency.

It's much bigger than any of us can imagine.

So...There are different ways to fight.

While the one I'm suggesting goes against every fiber of our beings, it is an effective way to fight back.

Take your Social Security, food stamps, unemployment, Medicare, Medicaid etc etc etc.

Help break the system from another angle.

Just hold your breath and proceed.

Agree with all the liberals you know, No more arguments. Just agree with everyone that big-government is the answer.

More wars, occupations and interventions are a great idea for America.

Agree with them that sure, war is great for the economy.

Hell, tell them we should occupy EVERY country.

We SHOULD police the world.

Then just quietly take the money (of which you've paid into the government all your life).

And lastly, top it off with fully agreeing that Ron Paul and his followers were all a bunch of KOOKS and conspiracy theorists.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

Cyril's picture

Anyway, looks like dear friend Joe won't need to apply for them

Anyway, looks like dear friend Joe won't need to apply for them any time soon :

http://www.dailypaul.com/279235/joe-biden-runs-up-bill-of-58...

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

This is semantics, perhaps....

This is the question asked in the wrong way. Since I paid taxes, everything i receive from government is mine: be it my tax refund or any payout.

There is nothing wrong in getting your own money back.

Engage in Secure Exchange

This is a crazy question

And No-
food stamps are not bad for those who's only other alternative is to starve. If you qualify for them then you will get them BUT if you do not need them you do not qualify for them. Capice?

Stop playing silly games with real life issues.

Keepin' it real.

Gee, What a Surprise...

...not!

Those who fail to 'walk the talk' and who seem to be lacking in personal integrity & ethics, are replete within this 'vaunted' liberty-movement.

The 'liberty-movement' is, however, absolutely infested with compromizers, rationalizers & justifiers.

Fact is, there will be nothing that comes from such a movement but a version or degree of what we already have.

Nice....

And?

It seems as of the author of the article gets the point.

That said, in an earlier post I drew somewhat of a distinction between socialist security and the other govt freebies being discussed, such as energy assistance, food stamps, housing assistance, etc...

I do not support socialist security or condone those who use it, but that particular govt program is a direct taking for a direct benefit, so it has been set aside by me from my general discussion due to it being somewhat more complex.

A mini-rant, not directed at you...

That said, who cares what Ayn Rand or Ron Paul did?

I am thoroughly sick of having what Ron Paul said, did or would say or do, thrown up as if a shield or some impenetrable barrier from being wrong.

If Ron Paul humped a sheep or a child, would that somehow be a defense or a valid excuse, rationalization or justification for doing so?

Of course not, so why even go there?

Oh, wait, I forgot that this tactic is used frequently around here to rationalize things that would otherwise be seen as questionable or flat-wrong.

Mini-rant off...

The principle is simple, the government excess is clear, the acceptance of any of it by someone does not change that, it merely shows where certain people fail to walk the talk.

It really is as simple as that.

The issue comes into play when rationalization & justification are required as cover and then the action requires a lengthy dissertation and/or some lofty, professorial treatise to make it seem okay.

You should receive every form

You should receive every form of 'assistance' from the government that you are capable of receiving. This is for many reasons.

1. If you do not, you lose your competitiveness in a world where everyone else will.

2. If you do not test the limits of these government programs we will never know the full extent of their legitimacy.

3. Nothing in libertarian ideology says that it's "immoral to receive a benefit." The argument is that it's immoral for those structures to exist in the first place, not that they shouldn't be used if they already do.

4. There are more government initiated factors working against you than for you and it would be foolish to not seek to equalize or reverse that.

5. Your own personal abstinence from using them will not make them cease to exist.

You are the Very Definition of a "Free Rider"

bump

Also

That's a pretty absurd statement considering you don't know anything about me. Do you know what forms of government assistance I qualify for or have accepted? Do you know how much I put in versus how much I get out?

I'm sure it's very satisfying to insult a stranger that you disagree with. Maybe somebody less impetuous would explain themselves instead of being purposefully brief.

The problem is that you don't understand

that your argument is the exact same in principle as, "Well if you think the government shouldn't maintain roads, you shouldn't drive on the roads."

It doesn't make any sense and is an absurd conclusion.

As in my list of reasons, there is NOTHING in libertarian ideology that says, "You must pretend the world already works as you wish it would." Libertarian ideology is concerned only with how the government should function.

The government essentially operates a perpetual adhesion contact against the populace. Imagine if you had an adhesion contract governing your access to water - some entity charged you an absurd amount just to drink some water. Not only that, in this contract your money is taken from you to pay for your ration whether you take the ration or not, and perhaps most importantly, you never actually consented to the contract in the first place.

Of course you disagree with the idea that someone should lord over water and charge you unreasonable quantities to have any, and of course you disagree that you should be party to a contract you never consented to - but your opinion on the matter changes nothing right now. Does that mean you should opt out from the system and not receive your water, because you disagree, despite that it is your only option and despite that you have already paid more than your dues?
No, it means that you should be an activist to the extent that you can to change the situation but that there are clearly more reasons than one why you should accept that water.

Frédéric Bastiat - The Law .

Frédéric Bastiat - The Law . From what I gathered from this book. Its to late to fix anything by simply not accepting food stamps. we (rich and poor) have been fighting to abuse laws for far to long now. I however will never get them. though out of the 40 or 50 college credits I have I did get a pell grant one semester. I would advise you to take everything you can from them though, not like the money is real anyways, why hasnt something crazy happened yet..

Yes

Yes I think it alright to be a Ron Paul supporter and receive food stamps! We cannot stop it, so you might as well use it if needed! Lots of illegal's are getting them so why be against American's that need them?

You sound like a bunch of Leftist trolls. lol.

Is this the Daily Paul or BarackObama.com?

When the rubber hits the road, all your talk flies out the window and you'll do whatever-it-takes to feed yourself. (except create something of value.) I wonder how many of the people here who'd be cool with food stamps say things like "all taxation is theft"?

No, they shouldn't, and I wouldn't. It's not about pride. It's about principles. Hunger can teach many lessons well worth learning.

deacon's picture

ALL taxes are theft

and given the chance to get some of my stolen
money back i would use foodstamps or any other program out there
that used my money to fund them
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

Don't blame the government anymore.

People get the government they deserve don't they? Don't blame the government anymore... Blame yourself. I wonder what YOU would become if you were surrounded by a covetous mob begging you to serve injustice? (You'd become a looter, a slaver, a butcher too.)

They need us more than we need them. Nobody needs Libertarians to win more than those in power. They're on their knees BEGGING you to win the debate.

Romans 13
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Really?

Shows that you don't understand the concept of what Romans 13 really means, here is one of the best explanations of it. http://www.infowars.com/?p=3572

I do agree with your very first part though, we have a government that we deserve, but it's up to us to change it back. Education is the Key to this, and holding the Politicians, Media, and others in "Authority" accountable.

"Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. If people all over the world...would do this, it would change the earth. "
— William Faulkner
twitter.com/@Battleforce3327

deacon's picture

a point of contention

we have the best gov money can buy,bought and paid for
with our own tax dollars,take a look at how many get
campaign funds from the big boys
here is just one example obama and romney both had the same
funders(the ones who got our bailout tax money)
them congresscritters have the lowest rating in history
and yet the same ones get re-elected
i say we got the best for the powers that be,and these work against the people they swore to listen to,and to uphold our laws
they do neither
2 that i have of heard so far have said,they received more than enough phonecalls to not vote for them bailouts,but did it anyways
is this a representation of the will of the people? or for some others?
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

Sorry. Alex Jones is NOT a good man.

And infowars.com is about the last place I'd go for spiritual advice or guidance.

Alex preys on people through their hate by telling them they're surrounded by chemically lobotomized retards and he tempts them through their pride by telling them the world is controlled by "elites"(PUKE).

He's tempting YOU to think of yourself as "an elite" and I see the result of what he offers people WELL represented here at the DP. He knows people want to feel enlightened, like they're becoming 'something more'. It's an unjust desire that he's fostering, and one he knows is a lie.

It's not intelligence that gets you past the gate, and trust me, there aren't any "elites" here at the DP.

Never Trust a Man that says "Trust Me"

The article wasn't written by Alex Jones,(if you would have actually went to the site, you would have seen that)and Everything within it is verifiable through other commentaries, if you would take the time to do the research.
I know that those of us here on the DP are not "Elites", however there are times it seems like some give that impression. And Yes, Knowledge will help get you past "that gate" that keeps We The People in bondage, but it must be followed up by Actions.

"Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. If people all over the world...would do this, it would change the earth. "
— William Faulkner
twitter.com/@Battleforce3327

"total submission to government"

"if you would have actually went to the site, you would have seen that"

I did, and I stopped reading when I got to the part about "total submission to government". Beyond that point I didn't see any value in the article, because I didn't tell you to submit to government. I told you to pay your taxes, and to stop blaming government. People get the government they deserve.

Submit yourself to God, not Government.

PS "Trust me" - So you think there ARE elites here at the Daily Paul?

Come on... Be honest... You consider yourself "an elite"(PUKE) don't you? The rest of these people are chemically lobotomized retards and sheep submitting to government aren't they, and elites like you should have your proper place in the world?

So You Say

You read the first paragraph, and decided it wasn't worth your time. Read the whole article, you may come out realizing that it is totally opposite of what you thought is was going to be.

Yes, Submit yourself to GOD First and Foremost, then Family, then Community, and then Government.

No, I didn't say that there were "Elites" within this site, I said that there are times when It looks like it, though I know better. Don't try to twist what I am saying. It's unbecoming.

"Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. If people all over the world...would do this, it would change the earth. "
— William Faulkner
twitter.com/@Battleforce3327

could God WANT you to be led by a slaver and a butcher?

Don't think of it as me judging your words, but rather whether they're "your words" or Romans 13. I don't see anything in there about your hierarchy of submissions; "God, family, community then government."

I guess it boils down to this spin on it for me; could God WANT you to be led by a slaver and a butcher, and if you find yourself led by such a man, what should you do?

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

deacon's picture

so you are an anarchist

by citing biblical verses it shows it
the bible also says do not do what these do
but do as they say,as they do not do as they say
you cannot serve 2 masters,one being the gov,and the other being god
so if you serve god you are an anarchist,because this goes against planned gov by men
and yes i can blame the gov,they are the ones who steal,rape pillage
and murder,all done with stolen taxes
these taxes do not get used to further anything but their own nefarious ways,and to further their own brand of democracy
i do not murder,steal,nor do i covet that which is not mine
these taxes do not get used to better anyone but themselves
and they serve not the creator
i can blame the gov for serving the wrong god,i can blame them for
not serving the creator but themselves
i can blame them for handouts to dictators who murder their own people
i can blame the gov for giving communists WMD and arms to kill more
who only to be left in peace
i can blame them for swearing an oath on the bible,then breaking it
all of this is done our names,and i don't like it one bit
i did create this gov,nor have i given it a hand in what they do
they are the princes and princesses of the devil,and i never have served them,nor given them free reign
our fight is not against people,but the powers and principalities
of the air
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

Disnonesty? Is that your answer to everything?

"So you are an Anarchist"

Thou shalt not bear false witness.

deacon's picture

would you care

to show me how i was dishonest,and bore false witness
against you
i don't see it
but if you want to got there,calling me dishonest
is a lie without facts or omission ,i honestly think i hit the nail on the head
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

Is it just you

Or do you have a family to feed? Because it's a whole lot easier to stand on principle and learn lessons from your hunger when you don't have children crying because there's nothing to eat. I'm not talking about no sodas and snacks... I'm talking about nothing. At. All. Garden's gone, freezer's empty. You've paid into the system all your life, helped others that needed it but now it's your kids and you can feed them by taking back some of the money that's been stolen from you until you get back on your feet.

Until you've been there, you shouldn't judge.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

So you woudn't eat me, but you'd feed me to your children?

"Or do you have a family to feed?"

We all have a family to feed "brother". Food stamps and the redistribution of wealth oppose justice, and when what the people beg for is injustice, injustice is what they get.

deacon's picture

so,would you say

that the fed gov opposes justice,seeing they implemented them
programs we are talking about here?
because with no justice we are left with anarchy
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

Not openly, but most people don't understand justice.

The Government needs to TRY and stand for justice, but there are plenty of people in government who oppose justice (Gun grabbers? Progressives?). They knowingly prey on peoples covetous nature because they want what a world filled with injustice offers them.

"because with no justice we are left with anarchy"

With no justice what you'll be left with is injustice and chaos; Anarchy.

If the government needs to stand for justice, teach the people what foundation justice is built on; liberty. Don't let these little monsters claim they're serving justice. You should embarrass these people whenever they try, and others will recognize the truth that you're offering.

People get the government they deserve. Help them deserve better government.