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Should Ron Paul Supporters Apply for Food Stamps?

(edit)

With the recent 'controversy' over Dr. Paul receiving and accepting his Social Security Insurance payments, I've 'bumped' this thread back into the conversation:

QUESTION:

Should Ron Paul supporters apply for food stamps, housing assistance, energy assistance, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera???

(Previous content referencing Atlas Shrugged has been submitted as a comment below)

http://www.dailypaul.com/237450/should-ron-paul-supporters-a...

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What?

Are you for real? Nobody here is begging for injustice. We are all fighting it. If it requires me taking some of my stolen money back to feed my kids, I will. It was mine to begin with.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

Yes. I'm real.

"Begging" would be what you have coming to you, a just outcome, which will not only help purify you, but those who recognize your need and help you willingly.

You aren't fighting injustice. You're feeding from it's nipple, and I said what I said because you tried to justify doing so through your family (your children).

Injustice loves hiding behind children. I'm not here for them to feed on through force.

Cyril's picture

This is RAPE

Although I have been self reliant 100% all the way thru my working life so far and I have sustained others, complete strangers, by my taxes in the hundreds thousands dollars by now... I have never blamed and will never blame anyone taking from the state because they desperately need it and really have no other choice at any single point in time.

What I blame is the principle, THE RAPE AND INSULT added to the injury.

Yes, this is like the RAPIST OFFERING his psychological counselling services right after raping his victim.

We have enough science, technology to have a country the size of the USA to feed itself THREE times or more and without the need to create ANY debt, any "social program".

We have enough information technology to make public education, family planning, the FDA, ... you name it : IRRELEVANT and the existence of which is an INSULT to intelligence.

The PILES of nonsense of these big governments' administrations are ...

INDEFENSIBLE, even in the PRINCIPLES.

This is profanity against the human mind itself.

This is PURE PLUNDER.

This is entire nations' peoples being RAPED and MADE FUN OF at the same time.

Period.

Peace.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

well said (as always)

well said (as always)

An Analogy Seems to Be In Order

I will loosely relate it to food stamps and energy assistance.

Let us say that Ol' El-Tee provides some work or a service for another individual in return for a bushel basket of ears of corn and a cord of firewood each week.

Along comes 'the man' (accompanied by a judge, a lawyer and a cop) and he tells me that each week I have to give him 25 of the 50 ears of corn in the bushel that I earned and also half the cord of wood, because he needs it for the 'greater good'.

He, his lawyers and the cop advise me that I must do so or I will go to jail and lose all of what I earned, plus assessed and added penalties. Whatever force is necessary will be employed against me if I refuse.

Across town, there are you and your family. You may have fallen on hard times, or perhaps you chose not to plant any crops or raise any food and you were too lazy or sick to lay in wood to heat with, or work to provide for yourself and your family yourself, or ......whatever.

'The man' hears from you that you are unable, or failed, to adequately care for yourself/family and he gives you a few of the ears of corn he extorted from me and also a couple days supply of wood to burn, since you don't have any, or you are running a bit low.

'The man' does the same for a number of other people, regardless of their specific circumstances or need.

Now, how many of you are going to claim that this is just, right, moral, ethical, philosophically-sound or that it should be advocated let alone practiced.

Analogy aside, when all is said and done, my value-earned in exchange for whatever it is that I do or provide, is extorted and taken by the double-handfuls and subsequently given to people exactly like you, who do exactly what you advocate doing...and I have to provide it.

You need help......go see your family or a charity, but keep your f-u-c-k-i-n-g dick-beaters and booger-pickers off the fruits of my labor because you have ZERO claim or right to any of it.

It really is that simple.

You need to understand that

NOBODY said it was right for them to take YOUR stuff. We don't want them to take OUR stuff, either. The fact remains that they do. Some people don't have extended families. My family could NOT have fed my family of 6. I had MY MONEY taken from me BY FORCE. That was MY MONEY I took back when it was needed.

Get off your high horse. When you have 4 children to feed and you lose a job out of the blue that has fed your family for 15 YEARS. You may look at things a little different. Until then... stop being a holier than thou ass.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah...

...rationalize, justify, make excuses...blah, blah.....

I state a blunt, simple, bottom-line philosophical position/analogy and gee-whiz, what happens....YOU appear and throw out a personal sob-story, just as all collectivist's/statist's do to justify taking from some to give to others.

Go piss up a rope. Feed your own family, get with your church, get with a charity, get a job, barter a service, but keep your hands out of other peoples pockets via force of government.

When all is said and done, taking what the government gives in these instances is exactly akin to that...despite how wildly unpopular it seem to be with those of you who would or have done it.

It is what it is.

I didn't "appear here

With a personal sob story" to counter you! In fact, my original comment is several BEFORE yours. Don't flatter yourself. I didn't go out of my way to make something up for you.

Do you even live in the real world? You know, the one where you have a mortgage, utilities, a car note, and other REAL WORLD bills to pay? Try to do that on minimum wage. Try to do that with 2 minimum wage jobs, a garden, selling everything you don't need at flea markets or on ebay. I bartered home made soap. I made my own laundry detergent. Our church helped... there's only so much you can do before you say you know what... we've paid into this over 20 years between the 2 of us... maybe we need to take some of our money back to feed our kids.

Insult me all you want. It proves more about you than me. *I'm* not your enemy here. You want to know why people see the liberty movement in a negative light? Look in the mirror!

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

Never Said...

...you put up your personal sob-story to 'counter' me, merely that you produced one as a rationalization or justification for taking handouts from collectivist-government.

Here you are, producing it yet again and in even more detail. None of that, however, provides authority for government to take from some to give to YOU.

Yeah, I know, I am insensitive, insulting and harsh and as you see it, 'unrealistic', but in a Constitutional Republic where government is limited in it powers, duties and authorities and is bound to secure individual liberty, where then would that government get the authority to provide anything to any individual, regardless of your circumstances?

All you are doing is rationalizing and justifying to yourself and attempting to do so to others, what you have done.

It really is that simple.

Society, government, or unknown/unwilling people, are not responsible to provide crap to you or your family, regardless of your circumstances, wishes, desires or rationalizations.

Sorry it seems a personal attack, but I am merely being blunt and no bull-schite in laying this truly basic principle out there.

There are millions of people who have tough times, sad stories and bad circumstances. What you posit is exactly how the entitlement/welfare programs began, grew and are so firmly ensconced, as they are.

I see this comment

as being "brutally honest" as opposed to your others which were just plain rude. Thanks for being more kind about it... it makes it easier to carry on a conversation/debate with someone when they aren't insulting you.

At the time that this situation took place I didn't even consider myself "libertarian" (I didn't even know what it was) and I only have for going on 2 years now. It takes people take time to get to the point where you are. If this happened now I would be more prepared for it. Things may not end the same way. Given the circumstances and my knowledge of government at that time, I think I made the right decision for my family.

Anyway, if you want to win people over to your way of thinking, it's best not to insult them... that's why people have a problem with us.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

deacon's picture

you attack people here

for stating they want to get back what was stolen from them by force?
seems you should be after the ones who stole it in the first place
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Oh, I Am...

...after the ones who steal the fruits of my labor, my Republic and my ability to freely exercise individual liberty...relentlessly.

That aside, what I have done is lay out some flat, blunt philosophical principle and analogy that should be heartily agreed with in any movement and amongst any people, who claim to be for Liberty.

Instead of that, fallacy rules, collectivism reigns, hypocrisy abounds and when push comes to shove, people advocate having their hand out to GOVERNMENT to provide for them by taking from others and by threatening/applying unjust force.

Nothing about the issues I raise is contrary to principles of constitutionalism, limited-govt and individual liberty.

Your mileage seems to vary, however, along with that of most other 'champions of liberty'.

It really is as simple as that.

deacon's picture

no one here

advocates the use of force,that has already been done
and has been in place for quite some time
the same ones who use force are the same ones who created the mess we see today,what with the housing bubble,the loss of jobs,the high price of foods
these gov types are the ones stealing more and more to steal more and more,leaving us (the ones who actually worked for it... BROKE)
thereby creating the necessity for gov intrusions and handouts
this is done by design and on purpose,and it is not for our benefit
they actively work against the ones who pay taxes, and on purpose
it really is as simple as that
you come across angry at the very people you purport to defend
and have the same beliefs as
over half of the average workers wages is taken right off the top for various agencies to dollop it back
i have personally worked for over 30 years and have not received a dime back from any agency that helped to steal it
i have gotten more independent and do have a need for less (which saves me money) and i do not buy much taxable merchandise,so i have lessened by foot print
as i have said you come across angry at the ones who want a dollop back when thousands upon thousands have been taken in different forms
of things not called taxation,and i would bet the ones who want a bit back are the same ones who's jobs have been legislated out of the country (i know mine was)
i am happy that you are fighting the good fight with the ones who steal the fruits of your labor,but we are not the ones on top
we are the ones that get called bottom feeders serfs and paupers
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

This from the guy who wants

This from the guy who wants to help Schiff blow up Iran? Who are you?

This time don't give us Barabbus!

What Special Kind of...

...stupid are you, really?

Please point to where I ever said, intimated or indicated that I support or desire to 'blow up Iran'.

Step up and put up.

Since you have already established what you are, please identify who you are.

deacon's picture

most have this forced on them

the taxing, extorting part (as you know)
and the MAN steals it anyways and gives a small portion
back,now if the people were not taxed so high and for so long
they might be able to provide better
half of the wealth is stolen by taxes,and things that are but not called that
you are taxed as well as i am,in this respect we are the same
taxes are taken without approval and used for their own needs and wants
most are not mine
i get to pay taxes for 3 different schools and i don't have any in
school!!
we all pay taxes for roads and they are crap
what is ethical to me is getting just a bit back that has been stolen
by the MAN you mentioned
i have paid my fair share for 30 plus years and i can't get any back
nor can i get a hand when i needed it
but yes i have a real problem with ones who receive but paid nothing in,nor ever will,i see this here at,generations of the same family who think they are entitled and they want it,even if you and i have to work harder and longer for them to get it
i honestly love the last paragraph in your post :)
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Or

Should Ron Paul supporters apply for personal responsibility?

:o(

every 15 minutes approximately 250 people die of hunger or hunger related causes woldwide

πολλα γαρ πταιομεν απαντες ει τις εν λογω ου πταιει ουτος τελειος ανηρ δυνατος χαλιναγωγησαι και ολον το σωμα

Of Course you Should...

You do whatever it takes, within reason, to feed your family. Don't let pride or a an over-abundant sense of morality blind you from the fact that you need to eat.

Besides, the monetary system is unfair. PLEASE EAT!!! DON'T BE PROUD!!

My thoughts...

The years I worked and my husband worked (still works) and paid the taxes that support those programs make it ok when it is out of necessity. When my husband lost his job a few years back we were on it for 6 months until we got back on our feet. We didn't try to make a living on it and came off as soon as we were able to... maybe even a little quicker than we should have. I see a difference in using it as a safety net when you've been forced to fund it, and making a living off of it because you can. Just my 2 cents.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie

only someone wealthy-enough

only someone wealthy-enough to not need foodstamps would say they would never take it.

YES!

Apply for anything you qualify!

In order to defeat the system we MUST participate in it. Use the system to force it to eat itself!!!

Every benefit you collect can be a donation toward a liberty candidate. So please everyone...if you qualify---GO FOR IT!!!

As you say: Destroy the beast

While I abhor socialism, there are a couple of ways to destroy the beast.
1) If you've got cash, keep buying precious metals until the socialist regime's currency is worthless.
2) If you're jobless, get on the dole. The more people on the government dole the quicker the socialist sow goes dry. Just be prepared to fend for yourself when the sow has no milk to offer. (Personally I prefer private charity to public assistance.)
3) Though it can be quite messy: Revolution

Collecting social security is

Collecting social security is not stealing anyone else s money. I have been forced to contribute to SS for 42 years now and I am entitled to that money back plus interest. Also keep in mind that the social security trust fund had a huge balance and would have been solvent for our lifetimes until the politicians started stealing the money out of the fund and spending it on wars and welfare.

Ponzi programs

The biggest problem with Social Security and Medicare is that, with increasing life spans, most of today's recipients end up receiving far more than they contribute to the programs during their working careers.

Example: If you retire at 65, live until 85 and receive $2,000 a month in Social Security, that's $480,000. Few workers have contributed half that.

That's why both programs are rapidly approaching insolvency and have been likened to Ponzi schemes. Young people contributing today are unlikely to get back the money they pay in.

Plus, as you indicate, the federal government already spent your contribution on other programs, so all it can do is create more money out of thin air, making your and my benefit checks—should I ever get one—worthless.

Since I am approaching

Since I am approaching retirement age I hate to admit that the retirement age might need to be raised a little to keep SS solvent. Never forget however that if the SS funds had not been stolen and had been earning interest like was intended then perhaps everyone would have half a million in the fund with their name on it.

According to the thieves in Congress

Our Social Security funds weren't "stolen," they were borrowed and replaced with a worthless IOU.

Also, the dollars that went in were used to by treasury bills,

so any imbalance between what comes in and what goes in each month has to be made up by selling t-bills putting even more pressure on that market.

It was probably the pandas.

Debt, debt, debt

and more debt.
A debt pyramid that, by the laws of Ponzi, must collapse.

The Title...

...of this thread is curious, e.g., 'Ron Paul supporters', rather than constitutionalists, limited-government and/or liberty advocates.

Ron Paul was simply a messenger and a candidate for office, who is no longer one. He is not and was not the embodiment of 'Liberty', so the categorization is curious.

That aside, it does not surprise me in the least to see so many people advocating taking various forms of govt 'assistance'.

It should surprise me, but after seeing much of what passes for 'liberty advocacy' by so many members here, it does not.

So, one should accept money which is unearned/un-contracted for which is involuntarily stolen from others, to supplement your individual living arrangements, food and other aspects of your individual life.....nice.

Of course, one grubbing this money/assistance, necessitates the guaranteed continued and increasing theft of money from those who work for it....again, nice.