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Should Ron Paul Supporters Apply for Food Stamps?

(edit)

With the recent 'controversy' over Dr. Paul receiving and accepting his Social Security Insurance payments, I've 'bumped' this thread back into the conversation:

QUESTION:

Should Ron Paul supporters apply for food stamps, housing assistance, energy assistance, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera???

(Previous content referencing Atlas Shrugged has been submitted as a comment below)

http://www.dailypaul.com/237450/should-ron-paul-supporters-a...

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Absolutely.

The government has created this situation with its policies. As RP has said, they've forced people to be reliant on the system by creating the bad economic climate. He's mentioned numerous times that social safety nets are the last thing he'd like to get rid of, if he ever got that far.

The situation might be different if food stamps were the sole cause of our problems, but there are so many larger factors (the wars, inflation, useless bureaucracies, etc.). Even then, we'd need to transition into a privately operated charity system. It would be idiotic to just go, "I know the government created this mess, but instead of a transition period we're just going to let several million people die."

Ding, ding, ding.

plus 1.

Only in desperate situations of course.

I remember when the media couldn't figure out why the "tea party" movement was in favor of politicians that believed in stripping some of the very same programs that most of them use to get by.

Same concept.

Play the cards that you are delt, but never give up your principles, visions, and dreams of how it should be.

Kind of like what Rand is doing if you ask me.

If this is anything like "Going Galt"....

I'm all for it.

Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy. -Ron Paul 7/10/03

If you want to

You are paying for them.

Yes, the government and Fed caused the boom/bust cycles

and loss of jobs which caused the need for food stamps. Don't starve - take them. I'd rather see tax money used to feed people than for wars.

When It Ends

By crash or Ron Paul's revolution it will be viewed by many as the worst thing in the world. It will be like taking the credit card away from a spoiled teenager. People will be forced to spend and earn responsibly. Responsibility is something that is missing from the bottom feeders and the top feeders.

Cloward-Piven Strategy

Yuu are basically reiterating the Cloward-Piven Strategy, cooked up in the 1960s by the Marxists Cloward and Piven.

The Marxists have been using this strategy for 40 years.
Do you think that this is some new idea, or are you Marxist?

Walter Block says yes

May a Libertarian Take Money From The Government?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block175.html

I Guess Ron Paul And Walter Block Are At Odds Here

Since Dr. Paul refused his government pension and returned part of his budget to the treasury.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

Wow. Since this topic is back in queue...

I'll also add that I plan to use my $173 in benefits in a single transaction each month so Goldman Sachs only gets paid one debit card transaction fee.

The money saved will be used to max out my contribution to the Ron Paul presidential campaign so phbbbt new whirled order!

Don't feed the pandas. Ever.

1. wealth distribution is

1. wealth distribution is theft and I could never morally partake.
2. as a self-declared "ron paul supporter" you must ask yourself would ron paul approve it? (probably not)
3. I'd rather lead by example and have clean hands once the government does crumble, by proving life without government is possible, thereby more able to convince others how to build a free society in the end.

my diy adventure blog: dickdoesit.blogpsot.com

Dragoncrap

"1. wealth distribution is theft and I could never morally partake."

Dude. Do you walk on sidewalks? Breathe EPA air? Listen to FCC approved radio? Eat FDA food? Drink Pastuerized and subsidised milk?

This battle against statism is not like knights jousting a dragon on a field of battle.

The truth is we have been eaten by the dragon and if you find a sword in his belly, you should start stabbing as fast and as furiously as possible. You can sort out whose sword it is later.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

+1

for dragon poo

Ayn Rand Rocks - I'm applying this week - war sucks

After reading all the great replies on this thread it occurred to me that a lot of the criticism of Ayn Rand is that she took socialistic benefits later in life after speaking and writing against them.

I thought that maybe she was trying to live out her philosophy to its fullest and get what she could while the getting was good, so what what anyone else thought.

Then I remembered that food stamp benefits are basically paid out of general funds which are borrowed based on the previous years spending. So any funds set aside based on expectations that are not used go back into the same fund that war spending is drawn from (all "invested" in bonds of course).

So by diverting some of these funds to myself I might remove enough dollars each month to prevent the construction of a single mortar shell casing?

Whether or not this is true, if anyone criticizes me for being a RP supporter on food stamps, I'll comfortably adopt Ayn Rand and Ron Paul's view: bug off and go live your own life.

Don't feed the pandas. Ever.

"System Overload"

...is already cooked into the sauce...and the noodles just hit the water...be patient...dinner will be ready soon enough. Now go and wash up...

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

It has been a thought in my mind that overloading the system

would be the quickest way to demonstrate its fallacy.

That also applies to oil. Burn it all up faster so people will realize how valuable it really is and how it's being taken for granted.

Slowly but surely things like water are becoming more precious and rare because of over-consumption.

Humans are greedy and impatient and want it all and want it now. It's always too late by the time they learn the lesson that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

Dump U.S. government bonds.

When Dr. Ron Paul was asked if he held any U.S. government bonds he just laughed.
People need to stop feeding the central government.
grant

No. Destroying the system in

No. Destroying the system in order to build a new one sounds like left wing revolutionary claptrap to me. What actually happens is that chaos ensues, a lot of people die and all the misery opens the door for a real tyrant to step in.

You also can't just turn around The System like it's a car. It has to be a slow process. Frustrating as hell, but if you go too fast people will start to resent the change and the net result is the opposite of what you set out to achieve. Three quick examples are: China's cultural revolution. That's perhaps one of the most extreme examples. Mao wanted to create a permanent state of revolution and he got it, until people got fed up, Mao was respectfully retired and China became the China we know. It happened in Russia when the soviet union collapsed. They tried the shock doctrine of Milton Friedman, that created the oligarchs and eventually Putin as a reaction to the oligarchy. And the same is happening, altough not nearly as extreme, in the European Union. They went too far too fast and now they're hemorrhaging support left and right.

And I just believe that simply if you want to enact positive change, you can only do it through positive means.

Stop buying U.S. government bonds.

Invest in local government projects. Now that sounds positive to me.
grant

wolfe's picture

Question for you...

And I do not mean this in a disrespectful way at all... But may I ask how old you are (roughly)? I'm not asking to judge one way or another. I am just simply curious how much/if at all age effects this particular viewpoint.

I ask because I have watched the past 3 decades pass with the slow approach... Watched things ebb and flow but always in the end increase the state.

As far as your various statements on the reasons, there are actually far better explanations for those events, than a backlash.

We may not be able to win by going fast, but we don't know because we have never tried. But I can tell you, we sure as hell won't ever win by going slow, because that has been tried repeatedly. I wrote a post about why it doesn't work a while back and how to correct it, with a slow mechanism that would never be allowed in the US.

Which only leaves a fast option. This system will collapse, there is no room for recovery anymore so it is just a matter of how quickly we tear off the band aid.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

I'm 30ish. But I wasn't

I'm 30ish. But I wasn't talking about what the liberty movement should do right now (move fast) but when Ron Paul, or another liberty minded individual takes power. Because I think, eventually, that is what will happen. You're not going to change the country into a libertarian utopia overnight, probably never. That's really not any different from Ron Paul's platform, which is pretty gradualistic.

I know my examples are grossly oversimplified. The backlash isn't the only reason, and maybe not even the main one at play. It's just interesting that it always seems to happen. In the end I just don't think that radical, destructive change ever works out. I can't think of examples where it has. It's not meant as having anything to say about how the libertarians in the US have conducted their business over the past 30 years because I don't know enough about it.

And in the end maybe I'm just not so pessimistic about what'll happen if there's a systemic collapse. Not everything collapses, just parts of it. So it's not like a clean slate or anything. And it's probably not even going to be that dramatic, more of a slow decline while others around us keep growing faster and getting more and more influence over our economic and cultural lives. I think there's still a lot of good in society that doesn't have to go, especially if we can't offer up a better alternatives yet.

So again, I'm not talking about winning this campaign, or any other campaign. But about where to go from there. For the campaign and the grassroots they have to move fast and decisively. No disagreement there.

Agree that the system is

Agree that the system is beyond repair. ALL socialist system fail in time, they do not "repair" themselves. But the best collapse would be a slow one, where people have time to adjust. Already more and more people are realizing the need to grow/store food. This just a few years ago was what lunatics, crazy people did. Yet it is becoming more and more "vogue" to do so. This is not a change to something new, people are realizing that dependence upon "the system" is what is actually something new, that growing/storing food, as example, is actually something VERY old. It common sense. And a slow collapse where people relearn the old would be much less painful than just ripping off the bandaid.

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

wolfe's picture

I can't disagree...

With that rationale in terms of people. The problem with it going slow though is that it gives the state more time to prolong and increase the suffering.

If it collapsed and tomorrow we all woke up and were required to deal with it, there would be a painful adjustment period, but it would happen and then the pain would be gone.

In addition, if the collapse is slow enough.. These very people who now believe hording food is a good idea, will start to decide it's pointless because life has kept on going, and will fall back into old patterns and get taken by surprise anyway...

So, I see your point... I just can't get on board with the viewpoint...

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

We have a plethora of modern

We have a plethora of modern and ancient example of sudden collapse, they are NOT PRETTY for the people. In modern examples it results in a large loss of farming capacity, due to economic effects of growing food. It takes at least a couple of years to learn how to create your own food supply. It you favor a rapid collapse, suggest you start now on how to grow your own supply, as well as enough to supply all the thieves that have not learned.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

wolfe's picture

I'm already proficient at it... :)

And as far as thieves, I know how to operate a firearm and a baseball bat... :)

But if you look at the Russian collapse, it contains a blueprint for both what to expect and what not to do. That is the most recent large collapse in which we can somewhat trust the history because of it being relatively recent. The worst unpleasantness seems to have occurred with attempts to correct it, instead of letting it fully fail. But that is my own personal opinion...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Russia

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Instead of reading about it

Instead of reading about it on Wikipedia, you should talk to some who lived it in some of the Ex Russian countries. There are plenty of them here in the States that can tell their story, and plenty who died who can't.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

wolfe's picture

:)

The girl I am dating is Russian and lived through it... :) So, yes, I have done so... ;)

The funny part is that our childhoods sound very similar. Mine because I grew up poor, and hers because everyone was poor. It's not so different than everyday life going through a crash.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Russian, really? From where?

Russian, really? From where?

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

wolfe's picture

Honestly, I don't remember the city name... :)

And remember thinking I would never be able to pronounce it anyway... lol.. But she described it as a small town. We have talked a lot about the Russian economy and religion during the communist reign (she is half jewish/half christian). Or at least that is how she describes it. That doesn't make much sense to me personally... But I don't judge.

The day I am called upon to actually pronounce her last name fills me with dread (we haven't been dating long)...

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Should RP supporters take

Should RP supporters take food stamps? That depends. Did this supporter pay taxes? Did this supporter pay Social Security? Does this supporter have a Social Security number (legitimately)? If yes, then yes they should accept food stamps if they need/qualify for them. If they participated in the "giving" end of the system, then they should participate on the "receiving" end of it also.

If this supporter is opposed to food stamps/social programs, then should not be participating in them. And GIVING into these programs enables these programs as equally as receiving from them does.

"We" are the government. "We" make others dependent upon government (us) by participating in the giving end, as well as in the taking end. If anything it is those who give that enable those who take, therefore it is those who give their sacrifice to the "Altar that has steps up to it" that those are the ones enabling the system.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence