20 votes

Gary Johnson or Mitt Romney?

Ron, I understand why you and Rand are doing this: to reform the GOP and give your son a place of power within it, but I fear the GOP is beyond hope as long as Southern Evangelicals dominate it.

For me the better message to send America is a rejection of the Duopoly. Let's get Gary Johnson to 15% in national polls in order to qualify him for the presidential debates. Down with Obamney! Go Gary Johnson!



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Yeah, sure. As long as it's

Yeah, sure. As long as it's not scientific or mathematical. "Yep, sure looks good to me!"

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

deductive reasoning IS scientific

and austrians use statistics and math all the time. what they dont do is use information IF the methodology used in obtaining that information doesnt pass the smell test. your argument is a pathetic strawman.

the easiest way to get something done isnt to change the behavior; its to change the meaning of existing behavior. like a cut isnt a cut, torture isnt torture, its enhanced interrogation. war isnt war, its kinetic military action. declaring war now appare

Rignt.

That's my point. They disregard anything that doesn't agree with their belief.

Google "God Module Rules"

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

so openly questioning methodology is dogmatic but

blindly accepting it without a second thought is scientific, then? Austrians dont shy away from debate. thats what we want. we want to actually talk about the fundamentals, and all we seem to get from you keynesians is this argument, ad hom/strawman attacks, which you have specialized in, and then when those fail, personal attacks (which i freely admit ive ALSO engaged in)

you might want to engage in a little self-reflection on the whole 'god module' thing.

the easiest way to get something done isnt to change the behavior; its to change the meaning of existing behavior. like a cut isnt a cut, torture isnt torture, its enhanced interrogation. war isnt war, its kinetic military action. declaring war now appare

take back my billy madison quote..

and apply it here.

the easiest way to get something done isnt to change the behavior; its to change the meaning of existing behavior. like a cut isnt a cut, torture isnt torture, its enhanced interrogation. war isnt war, its kinetic military action. declaring war now appare

Billy Madison.

Deep stuff. Do you have any Caddyshack quotes that apply?

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

.

.

I'd vote for Garry if...

I'd vote for Garry if he weren't a step backwards from Ron Paul.

We have a philosophical voluntarist running in the GOP primaries and doing well, and at the same time all the Libertarian Party can offer is a "Fair Taxing", "Humanitarian War" supporting, pseudo-libertarian.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Ron Paul

Supports the Fair Tax. He also doesn't believe in voluntarism as he is anti-immigrant, pro-border.

He's have sent Ludwig von Mises back to Europe to be killed in WWII as an "illegal alien".

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

But Paul isn't a libertarian.

He's well to the right of Gary Johnson. You really can't be a libertarian and be anti-immigrant, for one thing. That's not free-market anything, quite the opposite.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

Watch and learn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoUrrlbDoVs

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Right. Libertarianism has

Right. Libertarianism has ALWAYS been about "miniarchist" as you now call it.

Anarchy is not libertarianism. Anarchy never works. Ask the people of Somalia. Anarchy leads to violence and death, the opposite of libertarian ideals.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

haha

Tell Murray Rothbard he's not a libertarian because he's not a minarchist.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Dig him up and I will.

Rothbard was an anarchist, not a libertarian.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

Rothbard wasn't a libertarian?

Now you are just making an ass of yourself.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

I love how "Austrians"

seem to know absolutely nothing about the people who created their belief system for them.

Hilarious. Then they whine about Gary not reading books by the people they don't know.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

Anarcho-capitalism is libertarianism

You are the one who has no idea what you are talking about.

How about you explain Austrian Business Cycle Theory, since you think you know so much about Austrian Economics.

No copy and pasting, in your own words.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Fed loans cheaply to banks,

Fed loans cheaply to banks, banks loan at huge profits, sell the loans, outsourcing risk back to the government, prices rise, bubble created, massive reallocation of financial resources to attempt to capitalize and then BOOM. World wide recession.

Okay, now explain to me how Rothbard isn't an anarchist again. Put me to sleep.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

No one said he wasn't an anarchist.

You are making the fallacious argument that free marktet anarchists aren't libertarians.

You do know that about 10 percent of the Libertarian Party are anarchists, don't you?

Ask any longtime LP member is anarcho-capitalists/voluntarists are libertarians, they will tell you yes.

There are anarchist libertarians and minarchist libertarians.

What makes a libertarian, is beleif in the Non-Aggression Principle.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Aside from this, coming to

Aside from this, coming to the defense of others is non-aggression by your own standard.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

Defending others is fine.

Stealing from others to fund your defense of others is not fine.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

You have a weak understanding

You have a weak understanding of the difference between anarchists, peaceniks and libertarians. No government versus non-aggression versus very limited government.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

You have a weak understanding of libertarianism.

The only prerequisite to being a libertarian, is belief in the Non-Aggression Principle.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Some FORM

of the non-aggression principle, which Gary does.

The problem with pure non-aggression is that 99% of the population doesn't agree with it, so if you want to creat a libertarian utopia, it will require what you call "aggression" but others call "protection".

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

Once again, you do not understand the Non-Aggression Principle.

Defense is not aggression, stealing from others to fund defense is aggression.

Defending your home, or having someone to defend your home on your behalf is not aggression.

Stealing from others, or having someone else steal from others on your behalf is aggression.

How many times does this have to be stated?

The INITIATION of violence is aggression, Defense is NOT initiatory violence.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

I thought we were Ron Paul REPUBLICANS?

I will vote whoever the Republican nominee is, because I am, afterall, a Republican. The problem is, I do not like what the party has become,,, BUT if we do in fact intend to change the party platform we all should hold our noses and vote for the REPUBLICAN nominee. Then keep up the pressure WITHIN the party to move our positions to the forefront. This is what RP has been doing for 30 years, no? Vote me down, call me a troll, but it is what it is and I for one understand that this battle has just begun. Rand is definitely playing politics BUT look at his voting record - he is one of us and has put himself in a position of influence WITHIN the GOP, and we should be supporting him in his efforts to change the way they think and operate. Ron Paul is just a man, it's his ideals that we adore and want to push. He has fought hard this election cycle, and the chips have fallen where they have fallen, now let's keep moving forward to get the party back to it's roots and original core values!

PS- Does anyone really believe that Rand made that endorsement without the blessing of his father? I think not.

RON PAUL REPUBLICANISM 2012 AND BEYOND

A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.

If you vote for Romney,

If you vote for Romney, you're voting against Ron Paul Republicanism and supporting the status quo.

If you and others help get Johnson to even 10% of the vote, or even in the debate, then you're going to drag Republicans kicking and screaming back to some semblance of reason.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"

Ideas, not personalities or parties.

If you are voting for someone just because they have an 'R' after their name, then you clearly do not understand Ron Paul's message.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

That's assanine

I'm voting for the guy with the R so the guy with the D doesn't win because the guy with the R will drive the country off the cliff at a slightly slower rate....

with that being said if we want to influence the party we need to be the party. Yes, Romney sucks horribly but as I previously stated this battle has just begun. I clearly DO understand Paul's message, I also understand the game of politics and reality, which many on this site have a hard time grasping.

A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.

Asinine, perhaps?

Asinine, perhaps?

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"Annoyance is step one of thinking"
"We're all in the same boat, it doesn't matter if you like me"